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Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2013, 07:14:31 PM »
Jason...Top Ten US Golfing Resorts.  I'll get the ball rolling.

Bandon Dunes
Pinehurst
Pebble Beach
Whistling Straits
Kiawah
Hilton Head
Sea Island
Myrtle Beach
Greenbriar

???
Vegas?
Hawaii??


Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Add ons?  Deletions?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2013, 11:15:10 PM »
Mac,

Your list seems reasonable.

If you could put the year each opened, it would be helpful.

I doubt many opened in an economic climate that could match our current situation.

The resort would seem to have several things going for it

First and foremost, two top 100* golf courses by two of the best designers in golf today.

218 room modern hotel

In Central Florida, perfect for snowbirds.

An hour from Orlando and Tampa, 3 hours or so from Palm Beach.

Sponsor with deep pockets and no acquistion costs for the land

Going against it ?

The economy and perhaps management by a vendor, an entity that doesn't love golf like the Tufts, Keiser or Kohler

Time will tell

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2013, 11:34:52 PM »
Mac, that's almost identical to the list I came up with in my head. I'd probably add western Michigan.

After the top 8, I see a lot of smaller locales and less acclaimed areas that are all roughly even. Places like French Lick, western Nebraska, the RTJ Trail in Alabama, and other locations that are a bit tougher to travel to for most people or maybe a bit less heralded. Streamsong seems like it should be able to compete with that tier right away as far as destination golf goes. It probably wouldn't be my first choice for a golf trip, but if I take one or two every year I'd definitely have it on the long-term list (I thought about going in February with a fellow GCA'er for a long time before deciding to prioritize other destinations until more reviews are in). It's also in a densely populated enough region of the country that it should be able to draw fairly significant local play.

Like Pat, I see things working for and against Streamsong. Having tourist draws locally should help increase traffic, but it also may mean that the resort is always playing second fiddle to places like Disney as attractions in its own market. I think ultimately, though, its success will come down to the quality of the golf, accommodations, and service. In other words, Streamsong will succeed or fail for the same reasons most courses do. It's in a good enough location to thrive and a bad enough location to fail, depending on its ability to nail those three factors. Early reviews suggest Factor 1 is solid, Factor 3 needs some work, and Factor 2 is still TBD. I hope they're able to nail it.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2013, 11:48:15 PM »
That's pretty much the list I'd say as well Mac. When you're talking about resorts like Kiawah, Kohler, Sea Island those are top notch luxurious resorts which also happen to have really good golf.  I really think the success of SS ultimately depends on the golf. Just like Bandon, it's going to be the main draw so it better be good.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2013, 06:06:36 AM »
Jason...Top Ten US Golfing Resorts.  I'll get the ball rolling.

Bandon Dunes
Pinehurst
Pebble Beach
Whistling Straits
Kiawah
Hilton Head
Sea Island
Myrtle Beach
Greenbriar

???
Vegas?
Hawaii??


Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Add ons?  Deletions?

I don't know how you can count "Myrtle Beach" or "Hilton Head" as resorts.  Destinations, yes; but they wouldn't be eligible to be listed as a resort in any of the rankings of resorts.  Is there a hotel in either place which you'd rate as outstanding?  If there is, it's damn sure not where most people stay.

At the other end of the scale, there are a lot of companies who have spent big money building true resorts in Hawaii for you to ignore and just lump them all together as one destination.


Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2013, 09:31:25 AM »
 ;D ;D

Tom, I agree.  You must not have seen the question marks implying I wasn't sure and asking rather than telling.

And maybe you didn't see this either.

Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Add ons?  Deletions?

So, feel free to do exactly what is posted above.

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2013, 10:00:54 AM »
The Prairie Club is a fine resort that opened with 36 holes recently. Of course my favorite resort is the Wynn Las Vegas Resort.  I remember being surprised that they even promote it as a resort but that it is.  People who don't like the golf course at the Wynn haven't played it on 3 hrs sleep.  It is built for their demographic.

Here are a few others that I have recently visited even if I did skip the golf.

Erin Hills
Dove Mountain
Ventana Canyon
Bellagio/Shadow Creek
French Lick
Pine Needles

I'm not going to link it here because it is insulting to anyone with an ounce of sense but Golfweek does rank the top "resorts" in the country.  Come on people, Tobacco Road a resort and Erin Hills isn't?  Then they have another list for best Casino courses.  I didn't even look.

What it all comes down to is that if you look at a the bashing The Prairie Club received maybe Brad was generous with Streamsong.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2013, 10:33:04 AM »
If you care about golf and understand rankings you are going to have to ignore Golfweek on this one just like you have to with The Prairie Club.  Golfweek set up a bus tour for their raters that started in Omaha and ended in Valentine with a rest stop at Sand Hills.  They didn't even stay overnight at Sand Hills, got off a bus and played then got back on and headed down the road.  Exhausting, no doubt.  Well after something like four days on a bus with a group of raters they arrive at The Prairie Club.  Can you imagine the headache you would have from the body odor alone?  Where did they keep the shoes, underneath the bus?  My God, even if this is an exaggeration the whole thing sounds like stretch pant hell.  No wonder they hated The Prairie Club because by then they hated themselves.

Now imagine rater camp at Streamsong coming right after a fabulous visit at Mountain Lake. It is impossible for a modern critic to evaluate a modern course on the heels of a template masterpiece.  This is no different that expecting someone to see The Prairie Club through clear lenses after a splash and dash at Sand Hills.

The rater camp system is such a failure that the magazine no longer publishes the schedule on their website.  If you don't believe me go play the Pines at The Prairie Club and tell me it doesn't even register a 6.0.


Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2013, 10:50:00 AM »
Mac,

Rather than naming "Hilton Head", narrow it to the Sea Pines Resort®. With Harbour Town Golf Links and the Inn at Harbour Town, you have a worthy addition to any top US golf resort list.

Cheers,

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2013, 11:14:03 AM »
Here's the thing.  I'm sitting here looking at the weather forecast.  The high tomorrow is 10 degrees.  If I was going to hop on a plane tomorrow for golf Streamsong seems like the best option.  The only places I might rather go would be Cabo or Kapalua, but both are further and more expensive, and neither has a resort with 2 top 100 courses (at least until Tiger gets done... ;))...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2013, 11:15:45 AM »
John...

Is this the article you are talking about regarding The Prairie Club and the Bus Tour?

http://golfweek.com/news/2010/aug/16/unique-look-golf-nebraska/?print[

Also, you can do a search on Golfweek and get all their articles related to the Prairie Club.

http://golfweek.com/searches/?q=praire+club

Not sure I see the "bashing" you are talking about, but maybe I missed it.

In fact, should Prairie Club be on this list we are talking about?


Eric...

Excellent!  Like I said, I just wanted to get the ball rolling.  Sea Pines Resort, perfect!

I suppose I'm so interested in this because I do think Jason might be right and that Streamsong might be a Top 10 US resort already.


EDIT...just saw JUd's post.  Yes, I think he is correct.  Streamsong might attack this overlooked market in US resort golf.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2013, 11:24:43 AM »


In fact, should Prairie Club be on this list we are talking about?



You and I know all too well what a trip out to that part of the world is like, so I have to believe it should. I haven't been to the Prairie Club yet, but hope to this season. No matter where it ranks in Golfweek, judging from word of mouth and posts/articles I've read, it is a great place to visit.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2013, 11:26:25 AM »
Mac,

The Pines sits on the Snake Canyon in the Sand Hills of Nebraska. A score of 5.96 is bashing in every sense of the word. I would rather play the Pines at The Prairie Club than any other course in Illinois or Indiana. The score is a reflection of how it compares to Sand Hills not where it sits in the golfing world. That is the flaw in the system.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2013, 11:29:57 AM »
The score is a reflection of how it compares to Sand Hills not where it sits in the golfing world.

I've never been, John.  But I know you have...so I'll take your word for it.  In fact, this concept makes a lot of sense to me and we've all seen this happen before.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2013, 12:53:55 PM »
JakaB,

I see a constant theme in your posts.
Casinos.
Maybe casino courses should be your specialty.

Any rating system that depends upon unpaid, untrained amateurs has to have its shortcomings, but, I think we all accept that.

I don't know anyone who thinks the rankings represent absolute values.

It's just a subjective exercise that tries to establish relativity.

And, never forget that the outcome is likely to mirror the results when 8 wolves and 3 sheep vote on what's for dinner. ;D

In your gambling travels have you been to Atlantic City and Played Atlantic City, Hidden Creek, Gallaway and Seaview ?

Stay well and let me know if your plans call for you to visit the NYC area. ;D

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2013, 01:15:21 PM »
Patrick,

I love free golf no matter how much it costs me.

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2013, 01:23:38 PM »
I would add May River to the Hilton Head area resort list. 

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2013, 04:39:54 PM »
Just to clarify, when I asked what people though were the Top 10 resorts/destinations for golf, I meant exactly that. What are the Top 10 PLACES a golfer would travel for a golf trip in the US. Myrtle Beach DEFINITELY belongs on that list, regardless of whether they have a single resort that drives most of their play.

The point of asking is to figure out where Streamsong rates or could rate as a golf destination. If I'm a golfer choosing to take a trip, I'm not choosing between Streamsong and Sea Pines. I'm choosing between Polk County, FL and Hilton Head. Streamsong might be a better resort than Sea Pines, but it's awfully hard for one 36 hole complex to compete with the entire Hilton Head area. For Streamsong to become a Top 10 golf destination in the US, it needs to be fantastic. There are plenty of great areas for golf with greater quantities of intriguing coursers and much more going on off the course that Streamsong will need to draw its customers away from.

And yes, if the Pines course at Prairie Club rates a 5.96, that's crazy. Assuming you don't get bitten by a rattlesnake, it's worth the price of admission for the walk alone. There are some really great holes out there too.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2013, 05:00:39 PM »
Jason,

If you want to play by those rules you can't do better than Denver. Cheap flights and great inexpensive public golf. Myrtle Beach and Hilton Head have nothing on Denver.

Of course you also may want to specify the time of year. Divide it up by the Holidays. Streamsong just may be the best MLK day choice.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2013, 05:04:12 PM »
There's no real point in evaluating Streamsong as a destination resort until the hotel etc. is finished. Evaluating the golf is one thing, but the amenities will prove important when making comparisons.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2013, 05:09:53 PM »
Jason,

I find it highly unlikely that Bandon Dunes Golf Resort wasn't in every top 10 US golf resort listing you could find when it was just Bandon Dunes and Pacific Dunes. Don't most folks who go there spend all of their time at the resort, like they will likely have to do at Streamsong?

Sam Morrow

Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2013, 05:14:03 PM »
Mac,

The Pines sits on the Snake Canyon in the Sand Hills of Nebraska. A score of 5.96 is bashing in every sense of the word. I would rather play the Pines at The Prairie Club than any other course in Illinois or Indiana. The score is a reflection of how it compares to Sand Hills not where it sits in the golfing world. That is the flaw in the system.


How did you like the Dunes Course? I loved the Pines Course and agree with you 100%

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2013, 05:16:03 PM »
Streamsong just may be the best MLK day choice.

I think you are trying to be funny, but I think you've hit on something key.  It is easy to pop in and pop out with the airport so close to Streamsong.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2013, 05:20:41 PM »
Streamsong just may be the best MLK day choice.

I think you are trying to be funny, but I think you've hit on something key.  It is easy to pop in and pop out with the airport so close to Streamsong.

I'm trying to be topical. Monday is MLK day and I wish I was at Streamsong.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong feature in Golfweek
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2013, 05:24:21 PM »
Mac,

The Pines sits on the Snake Canyon in the Sand Hills of Nebraska. A score of 5.96 is bashing in every sense of the word. I would rather play the Pines at The Prairie Club than any other course in Illinois or Indiana. The score is a reflection of how it compares to Sand Hills not where it sits in the golfing world. That is the flaw in the system.


How did you like the Dunes Course? I loved the Pines Course and agree with you 100%

I like the Dunes more than the Pines. I thought the Horse was a donkey.