[Kyle Harris]

Ron:

You'll have to be pretty far offline, or aiming really poorly, to actually lose a ball.

The forward tees on all but a handful of holes are located in the fairways themselves.

[Josh Tarble]

Im unbelievably excited to get down there in February...looks fantastic.

[jeffwarne]

Another Florida comment that baffles me. Florida courses are not wide open? You mean they are carved through all of those Florida woodlands? The first five holes of the Red look like a Coore-designed Florida course.

And, if Frank was shooting images from the tee box, they look penal as hell off the tee ball, EXACTLY what a tourist needs.

Ron,
I'm pretty sure you're being fooled by the I phone pictures.
I've taken a bunch of phone pictures this season of renovation work and I'm stunned how narrow they look, like not even the same hole, and the holes that are wide open look virtually unplayable unless I'm very careful to zoom and/or stand in front of the tee.
People who are there and have played it say it's wide open.
Could they at least get some benefit of the doubt?

I'll take that water over ball eating fescue anyway

[Greg Tallman]

If done by another architect the Red would be universally panned on here given the amount of water.


It's good to be king.

[Kyle Harris]

Would anyone venture to guess a width estimate on the early Red Course fairways.

I am genuinely curious because of the sheer scale of the site.

[Mark Saltzman]

Kyle, I don't want to look at too many pictures, but first 3 holes...

35 yards, 45 yards, 20 yards before fairway widens to 45 yards.

[Frank Sullivan]

Would anyone venture to guess a width estimate on the early Red Course fairways.

I am genuinely curious because of the sheer scale of the site.

I was flying around the site given my limited time, but my guess would be 60 yds. for the Red Course.

[Mac Plumart]

I am very excited to play these courses.  Of particular interest to me is the turf, the scale, and the options.  All seem to build on one another and could make for seriously fun golf.

[William_G]

talk about a shootout between architects

given the wind etc... I wonder which is more fun to play

which is a better walk?

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle, I don't want to look at too many pictures, but first 3 holes...

35 yards, 45 yards, 20 yards before fairway widens to 45 yards.

Way low.

You will see for yourself in two weeks.

[Connor Dougherty]

7 - Par 5

I love the sand dune in front of the green. I don't think I've seen anything like that. Seems like it could provide for some very interesting shots.

[Ben Klaas]

These fairway landing areas from the tee are easily 100 yards wide and even more on some holes. The architect had to account for wind and the fact that this will be resort golfers. The proshop won't be a top ten client from Titleist this year. If you lose a ball, it's on you.

Marc, when you get there you will see for yourself.

Kyle, I was excited to play and I am excited to return.

[Tom_Doak]

These fairway landing areas from the tee are easily 100 yards wide and even more on some holes. The architect had to account for wind and the fact that this will be resort golfers. The proshop won't be a top ten client from Titleist this year. If you lose a ball, it's on you.

It is amazing to me that golfers often have no idea how wide holes are, or how far downhill, or any other measurement that's not on the scorecard.

Streamsong is very wide -- the estimates Mark Saltzman made from looking at the pictures were a joke, as there is not a single fairway less than 40 yards wide -- but I don't think there are many fairways that are more than 100 yards wide, either.  Perhaps a few.  I would guess 70-80 yards is more like the average.

The Blue course will be more forgiving off the tee than the Red ... there is a bit less water in play, and we cleared out more of the bush on the interior of the course than Bill and Ben could clear around the perimeter.  It would be sad to think that was the overriding factor in which course golfers liked better.

[jeffwarne]

Another Florida comment that baffles me. Florida courses are not wide open? You mean they are carved through all of those Florida woodlands? The first five holes of the Red look like a Coore-designed Florida course.

And, if Frank was shooting images from the tee box, they look penal as hell off the tee ball, EXACTLY what a tourist needs.

Ron,
I'm pretty sure you're being fooled by the I phone pictures.
I've taken a bunch of phone pictures this season of renovation work and I'm stunned how narrow they look, like not even the same hole, and the holes that are wide open look virtually unplayable unless I'm very careful to zoom and/or stand in front of the tee.
People who are there and have played it say it's wide open.
Could they at least get some benefit of the doubt?

I'll take that water over ball eating fescue anyway

You need to go back an appropriate distance and zoom in to get a proper sense for the width of a hole. Standing on a tee box and just taking a pic will tell you nothing about how it plays.

Yes, but taking an unzoomed picture from the tee makes it very easy for people to deem a courses unplayable and pan it based on the pictures.
I got a kick out of a picture Keith O took where the hole was panned for a "forced carry" which actually measured 66 yards from the tee he took it from......

[jeffwarne]

a little surprised that Streamsong, a resort that encourages walking, would charge only $25 per player for a cart and nearly the same ($15) for a pull/pushcart.
When a cart is 25% of the caddie fee, and you're already in for $175.........

$25 carts can't be good for the caddie business..........particularly when it's warm.
Seems a slightly lower green fee could be offset by a higher cart fee, given their stated encouragement of walking, and the maintenance damage that carts do.
Would at least encourage a pullcart over a cart.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

I'm not familiar with the area, but perhaps it's location and newness preclude a strong caddy program.

Perhaps, with time and exposure, a good caddy program will be established

[Ken Fry]

Frank,

Thanks for taking the time to put up a full selection of photos from both courses.  It looks amazing.

A few guys have eluded to my first impression seeing photos of the front nine on Bill and Ben's course.  I was under the impression they're not fans of water as a main feature in a hole's design.  I was surprised to see how much water there was.  The many photos I've seen covering the Streamsong project showed the par 3's over water but I didn't remember seeing such large bodies of water elsewhere.

I can't wait to play both courses!

Ken

[William_G]

These fairway landing areas from the tee are easily 100 yards wide and even more on some holes. The architect had to account for wind and the fact that this will be resort golfers. The proshop won't be a top ten client from Titleist this year. If you lose a ball, it's on you.

It is amazing to me that golfers often have no idea how wide holes are, or how far downhill, or any other measurement that's not on the scorecard.

Streamsong is very wide -- the estimates Mark Saltzman made from looking at the pictures were a joke, as there is not a single fairway less than 40 yards wide -- but I don't think there are many fairways that are more than 100 yards wide, either.  Perhaps a few.  I would guess 70-80 yards is more like the average.

The Blue course will be more forgiving off the tee than the Red ... there is a bit less water in play, and we cleared out more of the bush on the interior of the course than Bill and Ben could clear around the perimeter.  It would be sad to think that was the overriding factor in which course golfers liked better.

so the Blue is more forgiving off the tee, while the Red is more forgiving at the green...correct?

[Tom_Doak]

so the Blue is more forgiving off the tee, while the Red is more forgiving at the green...correct?

Both courses have a fair share of interest at the greens.  If I had to name the wildest greens of the 36, they would certainly include greens from both courses ... Blue 5 and 11 and 12, and Red 6 and 9 and 16, for starters.  But my guess is that our greens on the Blue will be seen as "more difficult" because that's the stereotype of our work.  I think there will be more three-putts on the Blue course, but the main reason for that is simply that you're likely to face more long putts, whereas a couple of those approach shots on the Red course will result in bunker shots instead of a long putt.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Frank.

It's interesting how the mounds and broad swatches of sand/waste areas 'break up' the horizons and the landscapes in a way that actually enhances instead of minimizing the sense of space and scale respectively - such that the 'tying in' of courses-to-sites takes on a different character than in other courses by Tom and C&C I've seen photos of. Anyway, thanks again -

Peter

[Bryan Izatt]

Jeff,

I'm not familiar with the area, but perhaps it's location and newness preclude a strong caddy program.

Perhaps, with time and exposure, a good caddy program will be established

Patrick,

They seem to be pushing the caddy program, so one can only presume that they feel that it is well established from the get-go.  For $80 to $100 per caddy it had better be good.  This is what they say about the caddy program.


"Caddie Services

Welcome to Streamsong, a new kind of resort that takes the everyday ordinary to the absolutely extraordinary. A resort where golf is both a quest for perfection and an art form. A retreat that is the ultimate escape for relaxation, enrichment and rejuvenation. A place where the surrounding ecosystems are as deeply valued as the time you’ll spend with us.

We believe the best way to experience the game of golf at Streamsong Red and Streamsong Blue is by walking with a caddie. As such, to further enhance your experience, the same caddie will remain with you for your entire stay. Caddies come to Streamsong Resort with a variety of backgrounds and experiences and their skills have been honed at some of the most exclusive resorts and private clubs across the country. Please let us know of your caddie requirements prior to your visit so we can pair you with a caddie who can best fit your needs."

[William_G]

after a few days of carrying and advising on 2 courses the caddies will be good

[Mark Saltzman]

Tom, can you speak to the decision to site the first tee on top of the dune (instead of say at the bottom of the dune)? Did you have any reservations or were/are you completely comfortable with it?

[Jud_T]

Pretty exciting development given 1) the dearth of interesting new course openings 2) that it's Florida and, last but not least, 3) the unprecedented collaborative effort.  Even if it is 2 1/2 hours from my In-Laws, it makes me actually want to head down for a visit...

Mark,

You actually got scooped!  I assume you'll be wielding something with a bit more resolution than an Iphone...

[Greg Holland]

[/quote]

Both courses have a fair share of interest at the greens.  If I had to name the wildest greens of the 36, they would certainly include greens from both courses ... Blue 5 and 11 and 12, and Red 6 and 9 and 16, for starters.  [/quote]

Tom,

In routing the course, was there any concern that two of the wildest greens are back to back at 11 and 12?  Was that a product of the joint routing, or just how it worked out?

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