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Tim Leahy

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New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« on: December 20, 2012, 02:32:51 PM »
Anyone know of any new courses being built or opened in California in 2013?
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 04:59:06 PM »
actually more of a follow-up question to this?  And, what's going on at Aetna Springs in Napa?  is that open?  9 holes?  expanding to 18 at some point?

David_Tepper

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 07:23:36 PM »
"And, what's going on at Aetna Springs in Napa?  is that open?  9 holes?  expanding to 18 at some point?"

Wayne -

As far as I know, the 9-hole Aetna Springs course is available for play most Fri-Sat-Sun. However, I would caution anyone thinking of going there to play to contact the course by phone or e-mail beforehand.

There were never plans to expand that course to 18 holes. There were plans to develop an 18-hole, private club within a couple of miles of the existing Aetna Springs course, but it failed to get planning approval.

DT  

P.S. The Aetna Springs website says the course is open Wednesday thru Saturday. However, I would definitely check with them before heading up there.

www.aetnasprings.com 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 10:36:26 AM by David_Tepper »

Jim Colton

Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 07:45:00 PM »
How about asking the broader question...how many new courses opening in the U.S. in 2013?

Dismal #2
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Jason Hines

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 08:43:04 PM »
How about asking the broader question...how many new courses opening in the U.S. in 2013?

Dismal #2
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OK, here’s two courses in the U.S.  Looking forward to the screaming matches on the routing, bunkers and how parking lots come into play....

http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/town_talk/2012/dec/6/large-apartment-complex-surrounded-by-ne/

Bill Satterfield

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 10:09:47 AM »
This isn't in CA, but Rock Creek in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho is a new course.  I think they actually opened in October, but that means about a month of golf there so I'm not sure if that is their "grand opening" or not.  It will be on the radar more in 2013.  It is a Tom Weiskopf design that was supposed to be a part of the Black Rock development but that property was lost in the bankruptcy.  Bill Foley (owner of Rock Creek Cattle Co. in MT) bought it and has it up and running now from what I understand.

Matthew Petersen

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 10:25:08 AM »
How about asking the broader question...how many new courses opening in the U.S. in 2013?

Dismal #2
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Camelback Golf Club in Scottsdale is doing a complete overhaul of their Indian Bend course. It's been bulldozed to nothing and is being completely re-done. I believe their schedule is to re-open fall of 2013.

http://camelbackgolf.wordpress.com/

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 10:56:47 AM »
Here's a new casino course in Tucson previously discussed:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53993.0/topicseen.html
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Ted Cahill

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 11:45:30 AM »
I can think of one in CA that needs to be abandoned... The Ranch Club in San Jose.. my cousin invited me out there a couple of weeks ago.  Wow, I don't know where to start- just go through every awful feature you have ever encoutered on a bad course and the Ranch Club had it and then some.....
“Bandon Dunes is like Chamonix for skiers or the
North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is
where those who really care end up.”

Tom_Doak

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 12:01:40 PM »
Streamsong almost held out for 2013 ... it opens today!  Perhaps that's what the Mayans were pointing to all along!  ;)

Dismal River is the only one of our projects that will open in 2013.

Gib_Papazian

Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 12:21:56 PM »
Ted,

Just as "Waterworld" or "Van Helsing" are iconic, spectacular cinematic train wrecks that simply MUST be seen to be believed, The Ranch is Casey O'Callaghan's seminal masterpiece of misunderstood genius! The intricate routing makes the very best use of this stunning piece of natural golfing grounds, particularly the seamless transition between #11 and #12.

The club motto is "An Experience Second to None," yet The Ranch is so unique, it occupies its own category. I think every architect ought to be forced to play The Ranch once, just as every director with an indulgent streak ought to be compelled to sit through all 4 1/2 hours of Heaven's Gate with those eyelid brackets Stanley Kubrick put on Malcolm McDowell in Clockwork Orange.   

Ted Cahill

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 12:43:29 PM »
Gib- well put.  If one set out on an excercise to design, on paper, as bad a course as they could imagine- it would not meet the standard of the Ranch Club. 

Sorry folks, don't mean to hijack the topic of this thread- unfotunately- there aren't many, if any at all, answers to Tim's inquiry- so we might as well commiserate about the CA courses that need to be put to pasture....
“Bandon Dunes is like Chamonix for skiers or the
North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is
where those who really care end up.”

Gib_Papazian

Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 01:48:05 PM »
Well, the "new" Ocean Course at Olympic opened in September.

Any comments?

Keith Doleshel

Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 02:11:52 PM »
Regarding Aetna, it is indeed open on a limited basis.  Calling ahead is definitely recommended.  It is a pretty good haul from Napa, and making sure it is open would be the way to go.  Played it for the second time on a Saturday during the summer, it was in great shape and a really fun golf course.  Definitely worth checking out if any of you are on a trip in the wine country and happen to bring your clubs.

Joel_Stewart

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 10:07:54 PM »
Well, the "new" Ocean Course at Olympic opened in September.

Any comments?

It's unfair to call it "new".  It's a major tweak allowing the superintendent to play architect and spend money recklessly.  It's still a 4 or 5 on a piece of property that could be an 8.

As for other courses, Poppy Hills begins it's rebuild in 2013 allowing RTJ Jr. to fix his tired 1980's style golf course.

A local muni, Alameda golf course may begin in 2013 to rebuild it's south course which has always been a mess of golf course architecture.  Sadly the new manager has chosen Rees Jones which is unexplainable to any rational person.

Gib_Papazian

Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2012, 01:03:21 PM »
Criticizing your home track on this website is a bit like airing grievances with a recalcitrant wife in the local newspaper, but I've got to echo Joel's sentiments here. Trying to get our movie in the can made it impossible to see the new work out there (I played 5 holes two months ago before being called away) until Wednesday, when architectural Sensei and I pulled out the microscope and went around it.

The Ocean Course has always been an emotional issue to me - far more than the Lake - because so much of my childhood was spent on its fairways. The beauty of the course used to be that every club in the bag got used over 18 holes; it had a sparkling charm to its quirks and even after we lost the three holes across the highway (1982), a run around the Ocean remained (to me) like a three hour meditation in a familiar, comfortable chair.

The first major redo - with six holes (only four built) across the highway - did not last long. Aside from the views, three of the four actually constructed were marginal and did not really flow. Some of this was thoughtless tee placement, but the strategic arrangements looked forced and jammed together. The two that were only partially built were stopped by a radical Coastal Commission official who tried to link a bylaw change regarding "sexual orientation" to obtaining our permits - those holes were partially across a jurisdictional line.

Next, Weiskopf and John Fleming (our longtime Super) put together a complete redo - the results were mixed, although the John Fleming contributions were far more interesting that what Weiskopf planned. The project was beset with disagreements and Weiskopf (he and Morrish had split) and the club parted ways towards the end of construction.

After a conga-line of designers were interviewed, Bill Love was chosen - I think because of his long friendship with our current Superintendent Pat Finlen. Between lengthening the driving range and fixing the 14th hole for the 4th time, Love got pretty well entrenched as Olympic's go-to architect instead of, oh, say Mike DeVries or Neal or Todd Eckenrode or Gil Hanse or Robin Nelson or John Harbottle. Enough said on that subject. The Lake Course work cannot be laid at Bill Love's feet - the odor was pure USGA.

So what we have is yet another complete makeover - primarily because nobody heeded the words of Dr. Mackenzie on the subject of "economy by finality." The club has a long history of rudderless tinkering of the Ocean Course; for almost a decade, a former green chairman was allowed to treat it as his personal architectural cadaver on which to inflict clumsy ideas - all of which had to be untangled by a "real" architect. An ungodly amount of money has been spent, some necessary, but most of it a complete waste.

What do I think of the most recent version? Not so much. The nuts and bolts of drainage are reasonably well done, but there is nothing inspiring about it. Almost as if he tried to build a perfectly straightforward golf course in Scottsdale and then plug in the bunkering schematic onto our Ocean Course. It looks like it was drawn up on a drafting table and simply handed over to a construction crew because the individual elements don't seamlessly blend into an organized expression. Every green complex looks like a collection of parts - arranged as ill-fitting puzzle pieces simply glued together.

John Fleming warned years ago against putting a series of ugly drains at the bottom of every swale because most of the golf course is built on porous soil - well, that is what happens when you hire a guy from the clay and mud on the East Coast. The Ocean Course could have been another County Down, with rough edged bunkers, sand dunes and all sorts of clever humps, bumps and hollows - a perfect compliment to the stern, objective test on the other side of Humphrey Drive.

But hey, it is what it is. I'm 53, so I guess the rest of my good years are going to be spent either learning to live with it or not. Ran would call it a lost opportunity, but when something is that close to your heart, it is far more painful.   


 

 

 



       
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 01:41:46 PM by Gib Papazian »

Kyle Henderson

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2012, 02:34:49 PM »
Gib,

Perhaps a heartbreaking waste of a golden opportunity on a prime piece of land at a world-renowned golf club was the architect's intent all along. What were his marching orders from the greens committee?
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Stephen Davis

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2012, 11:37:27 PM »
Gib,

That is a sad tale full of disappointment. I know it must be so much more disappointing when it is your club and a place that you love.

Jaeger Kovich

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 06:46:42 AM »
Not sure why, but the new 18 holes at Sutton Bay by Graham Marsh have not received much attention. If I am remembering correctly the information that Mark A gave us this summer, I believe that 9 of the holes opened some point late this summer, and the next 9 will open this coming summer as the old course gets transitioned out and the entire routing moves on top of the hill.

 For a club that has a course that most of the magazines still have ranked in the top 100 (not sure the mags are really being honest here) it really surprises me that neither the club nor the media has give this project any attention. Considering Prairie Club got a lot of attention and there is a connection between both a developer and architect, why has nobody really picked up on this story?

Tom_Doak

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2012, 07:03:00 AM »
Not sure why, but the new 18 holes at Sutton Bay by Graham Marsh have not received much attention. If I am remembering correctly the information that Mark A gave us this summer, I believe that 9 of the holes opened some point late this summer, and the next 9 will open this coming summer as the old course gets transitioned out and the entire routing moves on top of the hill.

 For a club that has a course that most of the magazines still have ranked in the top 100 (not sure the mags are really being honest here) it really surprises me that neither the club nor the media has give this project any attention. Considering Prairie Club got a lot of attention and there is a connection between both a developer and architect, why has nobody really picked up on this story?

Jaeger:

I don't know that the club has really promoted the course at all.  They're in a very tough position, not really wanting to call attention to the fact that they will have to close and replace their highly-ranked course because of the soil stability issues.

Plus, it's in South Dakota.

Since you've seen the course, why don't you say something more substantive about it?

Jaeger Kovich

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2012, 07:44:44 AM »
Not sure why, but the new 18 holes at Sutton Bay by Graham Marsh have not received much attention. If I am remembering correctly the information that Mark A gave us this summer, I believe that 9 of the holes opened some point late this summer, and the next 9 will open this coming summer as the old course gets transitioned out and the entire routing moves on top of the hill.

 For a club that has a course that most of the magazines still have ranked in the top 100 (not sure the mags are really being honest here) it really surprises me that neither the club nor the media has give this project any attention. Considering Prairie Club got a lot of attention and there is a connection between both a developer and architect, why has nobody really picked up on this story?

Jaeger:

I don't know that the club has really promoted the course at all.  They're in a very tough position, not really wanting to call attention to the fact that they will have to close and replace their highly-ranked course because of the soil stability issues.

Plus, it's in South Dakota.

Since you've seen the course, why don't you say something more substantive about it?

Well, I got the feeling Mark didn't really want us to say much about it publicly. Between that and that he didn't want me taking pictures of it, you could probably figure out the rest... But like I said, it is up on top of the hill, where the property turns back to flat farm land like most of the surrounding area. You will still get some amazing views, but the 2 sites that couldn't be closer together, couldn't be further apart.

With Landscapes Unlimited doing the work, and should be completed by now, I would have thought that maybe something about the course would be published via that route by this point, but still nothing... Sure its not the greatest situation to be building a new golf course, but it is still a new golf course, and in the US (South Dakota included ;D), so don't some of the architectural editors of the magazines need something to write about other than renovations and new courses in China! .. It may not be the happiest story in golf this year, but it is still super interesting, and I'm glad I got to see the old course before it no longer exists and the rattle snakes take over for good.

Maybe I will try to get some of my pictures from the old course up on a new thread showing what the landscape looks like. There is an old thread about the slips, but they dont do it much justice.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2012, 08:18:28 AM »

Well, I got the feeling Mark didn't really want us to say much about it publicly. Between that and that he didn't want me taking pictures of it, you could probably figure out the rest...

Seems like this answers your earlier question about why no one is talking about it!

Maybe you shouldn't say anything then, no sense getting in trouble about it.  They will talk about it when they want to.  Likewise, Landscapes Unlimited is pretty close to that deal, so they aren't going to talk about it until they want to.

Scott Weersing

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2012, 08:27:44 AM »

Jason Hines

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2012, 09:07:08 AM »
Not sure why, but the new 18 holes at Sutton Bay by Graham Marsh have not received much attention. If I am remembering correctly the information that Mark A gave us this summer, I believe that 9 of the holes opened some point late this summer, and the next 9 will open this coming summer as the old course gets transitioned out and the entire routing moves on top of the hill.

 For a club that has a course that most of the magazines still have ranked in the top 100 (not sure the mags are really being honest here) it really surprises me that neither the club nor the media has give this project any attention. Considering Prairie Club got a lot of attention and there is a connection between both a developer and architect, why has nobody really picked up on this story?

Google Maps is showing some of the new work.  It appears the “openness” of the new site allows more variety to the routing.

http://goo.gl/maps/Tc6Rv


Jaeger:

I don't know that the club has really promoted the course at all.  They're in a very tough position, not really wanting to call attention to the fact that they will have to close and replace their highly-ranked course because of the soil stability issues.

Plus, it's in South Dakota.

Since you've seen the course, why don't you say something more substantive about it?

Well, I got the feeling Mark didn't really want us to say much about it publicly. Between that and that he didn't want me taking pictures of it, you could probably figure out the rest... But like I said, it is up on top of the hill, where the property turns back to flat farm land like most of the surrounding area. You will still get some amazing views, but the 2 sites that couldn't be closer together, couldn't be further apart.

With Landscapes Unlimited doing the work, and should be completed by now, I would have thought that maybe something about the course would be published via that route by this point, but still nothing... Sure its not the greatest situation to be building a new golf course, but it is still a new golf course, and in the US (South Dakota included ;D), so don't some of the architectural editors of the magazines need something to write about other than renovations and new courses in China! .. It may not be the happiest story in golf this year, but it is still super interesting, and I'm glad I got to see the old course before it no longer exists and the rattle snakes take over for good.

Maybe I will try to get some of my pictures from the old course up on a new thread showing what the landscape looks like. There is an old thread about the slips, but they dont do it much justice.

Mark Provenzano

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Re: New courses in Calif. in 2013? New
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2013, 12:30:06 AM »
"And, what's going on at Aetna Springs in Napa?  is that open?  9 holes?  expanding to 18 at some point?"

Wayne -

As far as I know, the 9-hole Aetna Springs course is available for play most Fri-Sat-Sun. However, I would caution anyone thinking of going there to play to contact the course by phone or e-mail beforehand.

There were never plans to expand that course to 18 holes. There were plans to develop an 18-hole, private club within a couple of miles of the existing Aetna Springs course, but it failed to get planning approval.

DT  

P.S. The Aetna Springs website says the course is open Wednesday thru Saturday. However, I would definitely check with them before heading up there.

www.aetnasprings.com  

Just to update, as we played there this weekend--they plan to be open Wednesday-Sunday after Memorial Day. But as always, best to call first and be sure.

As has been mentioned here many times before, Aetna is well worth the trip if you're in Napa county. It was an easy and scenic 48 minute drive from my downtown Napa hotel. Once on site, the beauty and tranquility of the setting is amazing.

They could probably use the business--at 8:30 on a picture perfect Saturday morning, there were 6 golfers on the course, My son and I felt like it was our own private course--at less than a third of the cost of what we'd have paid at either Silverado course. I've never seen a set of greens so immaculate and flawless--most looked like they'd never been played at all.  

« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 12:31:26 PM by Mark Provenzano »