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Jeb Bearer

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Where does a routing start?
« on: December 12, 2012, 06:32:56 PM »
I recently purchased and watched "Creating Old MacDonald", the documentary on the design process of the course. In describing the routing, Tom Doak says something to the effect of, "I don't know how to build a bridge, but if you showed me how to start I could probably figure out the rest. Routing a golf course is the same way." So any archies out there (or anyone else who might have an opinion) where does the routing start?

Does it start with a proposed clubhouse location? A must-keep green site? A unique landform? Or something else?

Howard Riefs

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2012, 07:02:32 PM »
Jeb -

Others may point you to a handful of good threads that tackle this very process. There's also very good chapter about routing in Doak's "The Anatomy of a Golf Course" book.

Personally, I reference this brief answer from Mike DeVries in the "Feature Interview" he conducted with Ran back in 2002 (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/mike-devries-april-2002/):


Very little earth was moved at Kingsley. The course exhibits some dramatic and abrupt native contour. How many potential routings did you come up with before settling on the final sequence of holes, as it exists today? (Could you explain the process of routing the course, please.)

I don’t know the actual number of routings I did, but it was a lot. Some holes or portions of a course are readily apparent, but it is how they fit into the entire puzzle that is really important. There is a great short par five on the Kingsley property that crosses holes 2, 3, 4, and 6 in some part, but it didn’t fit in with anything else in the proper manner, so it is out-of-luck.

I spend a great deal of time trudging across the property, getting to know and sense the lay of the land so that when I sit down and plot holes on a topographic map, I have some sense of where a feature is and what it feels like on the ground. That ultimately lets me ‘see and feel’ the golf holes better as a circuit. Of course, some areas are less accessible and that is not always practical, but it is very important to really get to know the land.

I look for ‘natural’ holes that fall across the landscape (see the par 5 above that never materialized), greensites of all sorts, teeing locations, significant trees or ground contours, vistas or relations to features external to the property, and anything else that attracts attention.

Ultimately, I start trying to put all of these parts together into holes and piece them into consecutive hole combinations. Start looking at possibilities for access, power, water, etc. and how those might fit in. Add the owner’s desires. Look at budget considerations. Pull it apart and put it back together.

Cook these for as long as you can, because you always miss something along the way. Visit the site more and walk the routing if you can. Go over and over the various issues until I feel confident that we have the best balance of all the factors to produce the best rhythm and flow to the course possible.

"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Bradley Anderson

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2012, 07:03:43 PM »
I have always thought that I would start with a topographical map and a red pencil for shading in all the summits.

From there I think it would be more or less like connecting the dots.

Ian Andrew

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2012, 10:52:22 PM »
.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 10:46:25 AM by Ian Andrew »
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

William_G

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2012, 11:05:35 PM »
I have always thought that I would start with a topographical map and a red pencil for shading in all the summits.

From there I think it would be more or less like connecting the dots.

sorry but that's boring, you've gotta be joking, Erin Hills is like that, but could have been so much more

Bill Coore knows how to route courses by getting out there on site and wlking it with a a machette if needed
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 02:04:21 PM by William_Grieve »
It's all about the golf!

JC Urbina

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2012, 11:42:17 PM »
Jeb,

  Sometimes the routing simply starts where there is access.

Sean_A

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2012, 02:12:30 AM »
Its sounds stupid, but the routing should start with the house.  Meaning, the first tee should be near the house.  It never makes much sense to me to have a first tee 500 yards (or in some modern cases a very long cart ride from the house).  I can't think of a worse way to begin a round.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2012, 03:55:41 AM »
Sean,

I don't think that is what is meant though.

It is more what is the key in unlocking the potential in the site. Given that the clubhouse location is usually a given and that you want to leave from as near as possible, the 1st hole is mainly a question of which direction you head. But that could be entirely dependent on you having found a section of the site that works in a certain configuration - the key.

I think the Mike DeVries description above is more or less how I look at it.

This line is particularly accurate: Some holes or portions of a course are readily apparent, but it is how they fit into the entire puzzle that is really important. And of course it's often the stuff that is not readily apparent that makes the best golf.

And what can become the hardest task of all is letting go of a great hole because it doesn't fit. It can become a mind block as you try and make everything else fit around it because of the desire to keep hold of it.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 03:57:32 AM by Ally Mcintosh »

Sean_A

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 12:53:00 PM »
Ally

Let me put it another way.  The 1st, 18th and house are a team.  Where one goes all should go.  So if the house is a fixed point, imo, the 1st & 18th should to fit in with that fixed point even if it means the other possibilities will allow for a "better" course.  I reckon if an archie can't create some very good holes on less than the best land he should think about a new profession - tee hee. 

If the house isn't a fixed point, the archie should think in terms of 1 & 18 being close by when the site is chosen. 

Anything we talk about more specific than the above really needs to be tied to a specific site. 

Ciao   
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 01:03:42 PM »
Ally

Let me put it another way.  The 1st, 18th and house are a team.  Where one goes all should go.  So if the house is a fixed point, imo, the 1st & 18th should to fit in with that fixed point even if it means the other possibilities will allow for a "better" course.  I reckon if an archie can't create some very good holes on less than the best land he should think about a new profession - tee hee. 

If the house isn't a fixed point, the archie should think in terms of 1 & 18 being close by when the site is chosen. 

Anything we talk about more specific than the above really needs to be tied to a specific site. 

Ciao   

Couldn't agree more.

But often the overall quality of the routing isn't determined primarily by the 1st, 18th & clubhouse location even though they are integral and incredibly important parts of the whole.

It is often finding some other segment that unlocks the door... and therefore "gets you started"...

Of course, perhaps Tom meant it more literally i.e. The clubhouse and 1st hole... But somehow I doubt it.

Sean_A

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 01:10:22 PM »
Well, as I say, the "key" to any routing is unique, so I am not sure how the idea can be talked about in general terms except for how I did.  BTW - I don't believe my opinion is anywhere near unanimous.  Though for the life of me I can't understand how sacrificing the total package of the routing (which imo includes the house) is less important than one or two very good hole which are sacrificed.  As I say, an archie should be able to create very good holes to make up for the lesser land if that is what he is stuck with. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Randy Thompson

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2012, 01:50:31 PM »
There is no black and white answer, to many factors to consider but where do I start..by listening to the owner and hearing what are his ambitions, objectives and business plan. If I am lucky to get do what ever you want..I look for the clubhouse site with two good starting holes and two good finishing holes all in the same vicinity. That eliiminates a lot of areas. Since in SA we are almost always attached with housing, a good clubhouse site is important to create a unique social enviroment for the more then 80% non golfers!

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2012, 02:00:18 PM »
.



Great post Ian. Succinct and to the point ;D

Jeb,

I suspect most times the clubhouse is a given from the start but if not then site access and then topography I would guess.

Jon

Jon

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2012, 04:52:12 PM »
Well, as I say, the "key" to any routing is unique, so I am not sure how the idea can be talked about in general terms except for how I did.  BTW - I don't believe my opinion is anywhere near unanimous.  Though for the life of me I can't understand how sacrificing the total package of the routing (which imo includes the house) is less important than one or two very good hole which are sacrificed.  As I say, an archie should be able to create very good holes to make up for the lesser land if that is what he is stuck with. 

Ciao
We're clearly talking at cross purposes Sean...

SL_Solow

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 04:56:16 PM »
When Bill Coore spoke to a group of us several years ago at Hidden Creek he said that he usually spent time exploring the property until he found something that "looked like golf".  From there, he began to route the course. Appears to be more art than science for Mr. Coore but it has worked pretty well for him.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2012, 05:00:12 PM »
I have always thought that I would start with a topographical map and a red pencil for shading in all the summits.

From there I think it would be more or less like connecting the dots.

Sounds like the recipe for a cartball course.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill_McBride

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2012, 06:18:09 PM »
I have always thought that I would start with a topographical map and a red pencil for shading in all the summits.

From there I think it would be more or less like connecting the dots.

Sounds like the recipe for a cartball course.

Donald Ross never designed a cartball course, but many of his designs play down from elevated tees and back up to elevated greens.  Mid Pines in Pinehurst is a great example.  Since the following tee is on that same high point, the walk from green to tee is usually less than 30 yards.  A few would be considered dangerous if routed and built today.

Jeb Bearer

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 07:33:52 PM »
This raises an interesting point: can you really route a course from a topo map? How much must be done in the field?

Randy Thompson

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2012, 09:04:53 PM »
I think the topo map can point you in the directions of some areas and some concepts to check out but it depends on the land. You can route it from a topo if its an entire swamp for example. I never saw the Olympic site in Brazil but there sure didn´t seem like much on goggles or looking at a topo. Seems like a site like that could be inventoried in a couple of days, when other sites have so much inventory you can spend weeks or even months weighing the pluses and minuses!

Steve Lang

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2012, 09:08:55 PM »
Its sounds stupid, but the routing should start with the house.  Meaning, the first tee should be near the house.  It never makes much sense to me to have a first tee 500 yards (or in some modern cases a very long cart ride from the house).  I can't think of a worse way to begin a round.   

Ciao

Sean,
 Do you mean like at Greywalls?  otherwise a unique course...
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Sean_A

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2012, 02:15:23 AM »
Its sounds stupid, but the routing should start with the house.  Meaning, the first tee should be near the house.  It never makes much sense to me to have a first tee 500 yards (or in some modern cases a very long cart ride from the house).  I can't think of a worse way to begin a round.   

Ciao

Sean,
 Do you mean like at Greywalls?  otherwise a unique course...

Steve

Never played Greywalls.  Does the club have two courses?  If so, I can understand why both don't start and finish at the house especially if they were built at different times.  If not, do you think its an ideal way to start a round?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2012, 03:56:46 AM »
This raises an interesting point: can you really route a course from a topo map? How much must be done in the field?

To get the best result, you need both... Every time... No exceptions....

Some excellent courses have been routed without topos... Some excellent courses have been routed without site time...

But the more time spent with both, the better...

N.B. First site visit / analysis should come at the start though

Bradley Anderson

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2012, 07:45:46 AM »
I have always thought that I would start with a topographical map and a red pencil for shading in all the summits.

From there I think it would be more or less like connecting the dots.

Sounds like the recipe for a cartball course.

Donald Ross never designed a cartball course, but many of his designs play down from elevated tees and back up to elevated greens.  Mid Pines in Pinehurst is a great example.  Since the following tee is on that same high point, the walk from green to tee is usually less than 30 yards.  A few would be considered dangerous if routed and built today.

The question was "where does a routing start?" I certainly wouldn't do the entire route from a map but I would identify where the natural green sites are by locating the summits, and possibly they might point to a route. That's where I would start. But walking the terrain would certainly be important.

Next time you play a Ross course take of how every summit on the property is a green site. I think he had to have used topos to make those routes.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2012, 08:25:45 AM »
I wrote this years ago, and took a few minutes to shorten it this morning to illustrate the importance of finding the clubhouse site early in the process.  It might be slightly disjointed as a result, but its good enough for golfclubatlas, I hope:

A masterful routing provides for important elements of golf – like returning nines for the hungry, the tired, and the golfers yearning to go home.

There are really no set rules for routing a golf course, save one.  It takes a lot of work!    In fact, if a routing works out too well too soon, I make a careful hole count and am sure there aren’t 17 or 19 holes! 

I often prepare twenty or more preliminary routings.  I used to label them starting with the letter A, but often ran out of letters at Z, so now I use a numbering scheme.  These show only centerlines, although I begin considering feature possibilities now, at least in the back of my mind. 

It helps to route a few schemes, put them away for a week and then come back to it with a fresh mind, just to make sure I have covered every possibility.  It’s amazing how that break will stop me from getting in a rut.  It is important to do many routings.

I usually walk the property first - and last - but work off topos in the middle.  There are just some things better worked out on paper, and some best left to the field (generally, "big picture" items on map, "little details" in the field.  I prepare routings back at the office, and then walk the property again, when I have something specific to look at.  Every time I walk the property, new features of the land strike me very different ways, much like in the paper phase.  I learn something every time I walk a potential golf property. 

I like “sincere” routings, which I define as one that, if I choose, would no earthmoving to craft into a fine golf course.  I also like good safety (Job 1!) and usually take sections of property and divide them by corridor distance (usually 225-300 feet apart) just to see how many holes I can fit in an area.  In the Heartland of America, with its 40 acre/1320 ft square sections We have a choice of 4 holes at 292 feet apart, or six holes at a too tight 170 feet apart.  Even holes usually work best in getting back to where you came in a section of property.

The primary goal of any routing plan is to find the 18 most natural golf holes.  That said, I suspect many amateur architects (including, oddly, Tour Pros) don't focus enough on a "functional routing", which account for practical matters such as clubhouse, maintenance area, irrigation lake location, so an early priority is usually locating a few potential places for the clubhouse.  The “footprint” also determines in large measure construction costs, future operational costs, safety, convenience, profitability, in addition to playability.

The clubhouse area must provide adequate room for Holes 1, 9, 10 and 18 to return close by.  But, it must also – ideally without taking out mature forest - account for nearby parking, cart storage and staging, a tournament pavilion, scoreboard, and “general milling about” during inevitable rain delays and/or shotgun tournaments.  It’s not an inconsequential task to find such a site, as it uses at least 3 acres, with 4 to 6 preferred, and some elaborate clubhouses often taking more land.  Add in about 10 acres for the practice range nearby, preferably in a N-S orientation for sun, and also into the wind for ideal practice, and it’s an important decision in setting up course circulation and convenience for users.

It should have good visual control of Holes 1, 9, 10, 18 and the cart staging area.  Room for future expansion is a plus. 

Certain details can affect profitability.  If the 9th and 18th greens require passing the clubhouse, it provides an additional “purchasing opportunity” and saves building at least one restroom.  If a public course wants walk in range traffic, the range should be right off the main parking to make it as easily accessible as possible, since many "rangers" won't walk in a clubhouse or across a golf course to get to their destination.

Some other factors include distance to existing or proposed homes, except planned club condos, and governmental jurisdictions, to get lower taxes or utility rates, better fire or police protection, and the ability to sell alcohol (cannot be too close to church or school)

A good clubhouse location gives easy, clear and direct accessibility from the main highway, or from a main development loop road.  All other factors being equal, a course west of town usually has its clubhouse as far east as possible, for example, to make it as convenient as possible.

For early/late hole sun orientation, a clubhouse located near “12 noon” on the site is generally preferred.  It sets up the starting and finishing holes in a north/south direction, avoiding bad sun angles on opening and closing holes.  As the clubhouse moves clockwise around the site, it becomes progressively less desirable.

Usually, one or two sites fit those criteria, and quick test routings see which one has the most overall potential to do the above and offer the best golf holes.

Also, when it comes to the golf holes, while the mantra is "find the green sites" I tend to route them as golfers play them, from tee to green.  On most site, its pretty important to see what holes might be had near the perimeters, since you need to use all the land.  Most sites also contain a funky corner or two we need to figure out first.



Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ivan Morris

Re: Where does a routing start?
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2012, 11:06:49 AM »
The routing starts with the first tee! The first tee atmosphere at any golf course is very important and should be right in front of the clubhouse. Among the best I know are: TOC, Portmarnock, Lahinch, Portrush, Doonbeg and Merion. The 18th green should be right in front of the clubhouse too. Among the best of these I know are at TOC, Lahinch and Merion. What happens in between needs the high-skill, art of an architect, which I am not! Greg Norman told me once that he walks the land searching for the 'spine' of the routing. In discovering the 15th at Doonbeg, Greg found the perfect spine but he did not know that it was going to be the 15th hole when he discovered it.