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Mark Saltzman

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Another brief tour of a very underrated golf course.  I can't recall if the 'Dye Canyons' course at Promontory was in Golfweek's Next 100 Modern, but I'm not sure it is not in the Top-100, which is a shame.  The golf course will not appeal to everyone as it is unwalkable (not unusual for Park City), but it is a very fun golf course that traverses some extreme terrain, shows a lot of flair in the bunker style, and features the wildest set of greens I've seen by Pete Dye.

Set on the side of a mountain, wind is a major factor at Promontory and with the first tee exposed and at a high point, that fact is obvious from the get-go.  The first hole is a short, downhill par-4, but the predominant crosswind and the views of desert lining the fairway can add to first tee nerves.  A subtle angled green at the first rewards golfers that play to the high (left) side of the fairway.




OK, you've had your birdie chance, the second is a soul-taking par-4 that plays near 470 yards and requires a lengthy tee shot to carry an anti-strategic water hazard to reach the width of the fairway.




The 3rd is the longest hole I've seen at 720 yards, though it doglegs some 120 degrees and probably plays 400 yards on a straight line.  The hole moves hard right, fighting the terrain, and is an awkward hole at best.






The difficult stretch continues at the 4th, a boring but long par-3 that offers one of many bizarre fairway cut run-offs.




The 5th begins a trio of holes that lead the golfer up the mountain toward the clubhouse.  The 5th must be the most forgotten hole on the front-nine.
 



The 6th is a mirror of the short par-4 11th and those that do not enjoy forced carries may find it offensive.  The ambiguity of the tee shot gives way to the first of many highly contoured greens.






The 7th is a par-5 and another hole where the interest is created by a rolling green.




Ever wondered what a 300 yard par-3 looked like? Here's the view from the 299 yard back tee on the 8th...




At least the green offers a large target!




After a series of holes downwind, the par-4 9th plays uphill and into-the-wind.  The use of water on the 9th is out of character with the rest of the golf course.




The back-nine is clearly the better nine at Dye Canyons.  The 10th is a one of a kind golf hole, with the fairway set in a valley creating a fascinating tunnel-like effect.
 





As mentioned earlier, the 11th is similar to the 4th and the long forced carry is again required.  Most golfers must resist the temptation to play too far left, challenging the longer forced carry.






The 12th represents Dye's complete understanding of the Line of Instinct.  The hole plays downwind and very downhill and Dye tempts the golfer to play as far right as he dare, but at 300 yards just to reach the first fairway bunker on the right, the Line of Charm is miles left of the Line of Instinct!  Oh, and another very cool green at the 12th.






The 13th is the shortest par-3 on the golf course, but with the putting surface completely hidden from view and a false-front waiting to catch any mis-hit tee shots, the hole is no gimme.




I found the 14th to be a pretty but awkward golf hole.  The crosswind and downhill nature of the hole narrow the effective width of the fairway.  As a result, the centreline bunker will not be challenged by any thinking golfer and will almost always dictate a simple lay-up from the tee.






Like the 14th, the 15th is downhill, moves left, and is over-bunkered.  Still, the angled and contoured green will keep golfers interested.






Though the 16th is 220+ yards on the scorecard, it is downhill, downwind and played to a very long green (and remember, we're at 8,000 feet elevation) -- you may find yourself hitting 8i from 220, hopefully you're math is good!




The 17th reminds me of the 13th at Fazio's Mirasol CC in Florida -- the golfer knows he wants to cut the corner, but a hill blocks the golfer's view of the fairway and he is left to trust his instinct in determining the ideal line.




Challenging the right leaves a much shorter approach and a preferred angle.






Like the 10th, the 18th is fit into a valley, though this hole feels more cluttered.  A back-tee at 600+ yards brings the water into play, but from other sets it is just eye-candy.




Matt Kardash

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 09:27:22 PM »
I could be wrong, but I thought I remember hearing that this course was designed by Perry Dye under his father's name.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Stephen Davis

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 10:01:08 PM »
Thanks for posting this. My wife's family is from Utah and I have had the pleasure of playing many of the great course in that state. However, I have not had the pleasure of playing this one. It looks like a blast. Utah courses are very underrated IMO.

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 10:02:45 PM »
Stephen, where have you played and what did you like best?

I agree, there are several really good ones.  I think Promontory (Dye) is top-100 modern, and Glenwild probably is too.  St Lake CC is currently ranked by Golfweek in the Top-200 Classic, though at the bottom end.

Tim Rooney

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 10:20:14 PM »
Thought course outstanding it's opening year,paring hole 4/720yd,into a headwind---------driver,3metal,3iron.Pete indicated architectural design involvement.Excellent and enjoyable Pete Dye mountain creation!

Stephen Davis

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 10:25:43 PM »
I have played Glenwild, most of the courses in the Heber & Midway area, just about every course in southern Salt Lake county, all of the courses in Utah county (I got a double eagle on a course in Provo that is only exceptional in that it is exceptionally bad. One of those it is so bad it is good kind of deals). I have played every course in the St. George area. My favorite course in the state is Sand Hollow in Hurricane. It was designed by John Fought and is a real treat.The back nine stretch from 11-15 is fantastic and if there was an ocean to the left of the cliffs, this course would be famous. It also has a great 9 hole links course that is one of the best deals to be had anywhere. I played Glenwild soon after it opened and I remember liking it, but honestly I don't remember much else about it. A course that is always fun to play is nestled in the canyons in Springville, called Hobble Creek. It was designed by William Bell and it is a really fun time, nothing that is going to knock your socks off, but it is a good routing and it reminds me of golf the way it was when I grew up. My dad grew up in the area and was a serious golfer when this course opened. It has always been a favorite of both of ours.

Brad Tufts

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 11:29:47 PM »
Hi Mark,

I spend one full day for work in SLC/Park City each year, and usually have time for one round.

I have played SLCCC and Glenwild, but those are my only UT golf experiences.

St. George aside, what should be the other targets in the SLC/Park City area?

I have had a love/hate with Dye-design courses, but have been fortunate to play a few Dye-himself designs like Crooked Stick and French Lick (couldn't tell if FL-Dye was a 4 or 9) that were great.  I have to say that Promontory-Dye does not look like my cup of tea.

Should I make a point to give it a shot, or is this "out-there Dye" like Pound Ridge?

-Brad

So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Joe Jemsek

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 11:34:20 PM »
Matt is correct the Dye Canyon Course was a Pete/Perry Designed course, but the entire Dye family was on site including Matt Dye(designer of the Ledges in St George) who was the primary green shaper and Cynthia Dye-McGarey(designer of Whitehorse in WA and others in Asia) handled much of the course strategy. Nicklaus turned down the site, said he couldn't build a great golf course in the Canyon and instead built on the site near the reservoir.
Have clubs, will travel

Andy Troeger

Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 11:46:26 PM »
I do agree with Mark's premise that Promontory Dye flies under the radar a bit due to location. Its my favorite in Utah by a smidge over Glenwild, and I think its significantly more fun to play then the Nicklaus Course or Red Ledges. I haven't played Victory Ranch or anything in the SW part of the state.  The two nines struck me as being pretty dramatically different however, with a strong personal preference for the back nine. The property is pretty severe, so its not a course that would be easily walked. Its been awhile since I played, so I don't have much memory for the transitions from hole to hole.

I don't think Promontory Dye (or Glenwild) belong in the Modern Top 100, although I think Top 200 is reasonable in both cases. I would have a hard time putting either of the Park City courses ahead of similar types of Colorado courses including Red Sky Norman, Ravenna, or Cornerstone, and none of them make the Top 100 Modern these days either. Cougar Canyon would rank higher for me as well. The front nine at Promontory Dye is just "good" and the back nine is not so great as to make up for that. Glenwild is a good course with great views--it would be fun to play regularly and a great members course but I wouldn't consider it to be one of Fazio's best in terms of architectural creativity. I'm a homer for Paa-Ko Ridge in New Mexico, but as a mountain course that most people will ride, I think its far more consistently interesting and worthy of the Top 100 Modern designation.

Brad,
I think Promontory has more in common with Pete's good stuff than the not-so-good. Its not in the class of Crooked Stick, but I consider his French Lick design to be "out there" and like Promontory better.


Bill Satterfield

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 12:37:46 AM »
Interestingly, when I played French Lick two months ago my first thought was how similar it felt to Promontory.  French Lick is more extreme for sure, but I don't think Promontory is too far behind it on that category.  I enjoy every style of golf for different reasons, but my buddy that played Promontory with me last year was about ready to walk off the course on the back nine.  He very much prefers classic courses where everything is in front of you and wants nothing that he would deem gimmicky.  Gimmicky for him would be bunkers in the middle of fairways, unlevel lies in the fairway, extreme terrain, blind shots, etc.  The big elevation changes and canyon routing of Promontory create some interesting lines to take from the back tees and few level lies in the fairway.  If you don't like mountain golf or Pete Dye designs, Promontory isn't going to change your mind on either of those categories.

I agree that the Dye course is quite a bit better than the Nicklaus course at Promontory.  The Nicklaus course is long (8100 yards) without providing much pleasure or creativity.  I've played 60 different courses in Utah including everything that would ever make someone's top 10 in the state.  For my taste, the top tier courses to play in the state are Glenwild, Sand Hollow, and Victory Ranch.  The next tier down would include Salt Lake Country Club, Thanksgiving Point, Entrada, Red Ledges, and Dye's course at Promontory.  The next tier down after that would include Tuhaye and Coral Canyon which would round off my personal top 10.  The best values in the state are Valley View in Layton and Soldier Hollow (Gold) along with Wasatch State Park (Mountain) in Midway.  Soldier Hollow hosted the Pub Links last year I believe and has hosted the state am a handful of times already.  Wasatch State Park (Mountain) is a really fun mountain course; 10 holes up the mountain and 8 holes coming back down.  Valley View is a muni with no houses, very good layout, and an excellent variety of classic feeling holes along with some mountain feeling holes due to the elevation changes during certain points.  All of those courses will run you somewhere in the $30 - $40 range to play.

Bill Satterfield

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 12:42:12 AM »
By the way, if you are curious what any of those courses I mentioned look like, I have pictures of all of them on my website.  You can go to this link, http://golfcoursegurus.com/photos/utah/, click on the course you want to see, and then it will show pics in a slideshow format that you can expand to full screen if you'd like.

Josh Tarble

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 09:13:16 AM »
It really looks like this course is another excellent example of the way Pete thinks/designs golf courses.  I'm not sure there are many other designers in the world that could have designed a course that looks fun, albeit extremely challenging, on such wild terrain.

The yardages seem really long, but I've never played at THAT high of elevation.  Are the back tees pretty comparable to a roughly 7000 yard course?

Carl Nichols

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 03:40:54 PM »
I think Promontory (Dye) is top-100 modern

Mark-
I must admit that your hole-by-hole commentary struck me as inconsistent with the notion that this course would crack any top 100 list.  Indeed, you used the terms "anti-strategic," "awkward at best," "boring," "bizarre," "most forgotten," "out of character," "pretty but awkward," "over-bunkered," "cluttered," and "eye candy" in your descriptions -- and the only holes you really seemed to like were the 10th and 12th (though you weren't that effusive in your praise of even those holes).  Is there something about the course as a whole that elevates it beyond where those descriptions would seem to place it. 

Tim Rooney

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 07:35:17 PM »
Josh, the course plays shorter than yardage,i.e. # 9(207yd)/7iron?

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 09:28:24 PM »
I have spent much time in Utah over the years, and in my opinion victory Ranch is the best course in the Park city area by a longshot.  The Nicklaus course at promontory is a real slog, my understanding is that the dye course gets about 70% of the play.

Tuhaye was mentioned several posts ago. That golf course is absolutely abhorrent.  In my opinion it is the type of course you  play once, and you cannot wait to go back to see if it was as bad as you really thought. The second play confirms your initial suspicion.

Red ledges has been softened in the last couple of years since it opened, and is more playable, and therefore more fun than it was when it first opened about five or six years ago.  Glenwild, as mentioned previously, is a great everyday golf course, with wonderful amenities above and beyond the 18 holes on property.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2012, 12:43:00 PM »
Interesting comments for a course that looks absolutely dreadful from these photographs.  Let's hope it's Perry.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Matt Kardash

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2012, 01:07:34 PM »
The more I look at pics of the course the more I am sure Pete didn't have a lot to do with this. The shaping, bunker placement and strategy are more Perry.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 04:28:54 PM »
It is definitely a Perry Dye project, I know for a fact

Matt Kardash

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2012, 05:45:33 PM »
It is definitely a Perry Dye project, I know for a fact

Thanks for confirming Joel. While Perry is good at imitating his father's style I find that those who know Dye's work well can see the obvious difference's between the two. I guess it's like being friends with a pair of twins; since you know the twins so well they look nothing a like in your eyes, but to everyone else they are identical.

Someone above mentioned how they felt French Lick and this course seemed similar to them. To me they look so entirely different. French Lick is Pete, Promontory is Perry. Perry's work usually takes the sterotype's of his dad's work and then makes them 10 times worse.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Ross Harmon

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2012, 07:37:24 PM »
Sorry to thread jack... but is Joe Jemsek finally on GCA?!?

Welcome Joe!!!

Mark Saltzman

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2012, 07:45:17 PM »
I have spent much time in Utah over the years, and in my opinion victory Ranch is the best course in the Park city area by a longshot. 

Joel, you are certainly the resident Park City expert, so I defer to your opinion, but... I really enjoyed Victory Ranch, but I wasn't convinced it would hold as much interest on repeat plays.  Have you been there more than once (or many times)?  It is a very FUN golf course; cartball, thrilling forced carries and great views.  Some will love it, but I think many on this board would not think much of it.  A review with lots of pictures for anyone interested: http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/03/victory-ranch-club-course-review.html

The Nicklaus course at promontory is a real slog, my understanding is that the dye course gets about 70% of the play.

I can't understand the higher rating of the Nicklaus course in GW.  Slog is the right word for it.  Other than a memorable 100 foot elevation change on 12, the course is of little interest.



Tuhaye was mentioned several posts ago. That golf course is absolutely abhorrent.  In my opinion it is the type of course you  play once, and you cannot wait to go back to see if it was as bad as you really thought. The second play confirms your initial suspicion. 
Abhorrent, good word for it.

Red ledges has been softened in the last couple of years since it opened, and is more playable, and therefore more fun than it was when it first opened about five or six years ago.  Glenwild, as mentioned previously, is a great everyday golf course, with wonderful amenities above and beyond the 18 holes on property. 

If picking a place to play everyday, it would be hard for me to pick somewhere other than Glenwild (based on the courses I saw)



Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2012, 09:40:12 PM »
I've played Victory about 5-6 times, but never more than once a summer, other than this past summer when I played it twice in a week's time.

I dunno if it would get boring playing it 2x weekly, but with my very occasional visits it has always been the GC I most look forward to playing in PC

Tim Rooney

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2012, 10:16:49 PM »
Joel, saw similar volcano style bunkering at Colleton River?Did Perry help also?

John Mayhugh

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Re: Promontory Golf Club (Pete Dye), Park City, Utah - A Photo Tour
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2012, 10:40:05 PM »
Thanks for the tour.  The 10th reminds me a little of the 11th at Notts.