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Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« on: December 09, 2012, 04:49:48 AM »
From where I sit, Peter Dawson is a paid employee of the R&A, as secretary/CEO, like most CEOs he is the front man of the organisation.
The St Andrews Links Trust sits in a strange position with control from local and national politicians and the R&A. This set up was surely designed to make sure no one organisation, political party or person could wrestle control of the courses from the people of St Andrews.

Reading some of the disrespectful garbage on this site over the past two weeks does anyone actually think Mr Dawson has spent the past two years sitting at his desk overlooking the course with a pencil and paper drawing up changes to TOC and personally steamrollering them through the management structure of the Trust to get the work done?

I think not, just as Mr Obama doesn't sit in the Oval office writing down the names of schools to close.
Cave Nil Vino

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 05:00:54 AM »
If the US had just one school and there would be no other school like it in the entire world, then I think yes, Obama would be calling the shots on it. How much Mr. Dawson had to do with the decision personally is unclear, but his job is to stand for it and deal with the criticism. And if said dealing comes across as smug, then he will have no one to blame but himself, if he comes under personal scrutiny. Where is his extended hand, reaching out to all friends of TOC?

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 07:05:03 AM »
I think he's been done a horrible disservice in all of this and am personally delivering some Christmas pudding with Nana's homemade hard sauce to him for the holidays...




Funny, when I went to TinyPic to upload the image the security phrase I was required to enter was "Hallowed Ground".  Seriously.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 07:12:43 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 08:51:50 AM »
Mark, do you believe these changes would be underway were Mr Dawson not behind them?
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Brent Hutto

Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2012, 09:06:30 AM »
I think the number of absolute dictators, benevolent or otherwise, in control of golf courses nowadays is vanishingly small. I would be extremely surprised if Mr. Dawson were one of that rare breed.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 09:19:24 AM »
No, he just demonizes all who use the hospital and actually pay for its services
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2012, 09:22:48 AM »
.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 09:26:16 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2012, 10:06:51 AM »
No, he just demonizes all who use the hospital and actually pay for its services

Those poor demonized hospital corporations!  I shudder when I think of the afflicted leaders of these eleemosynary associations.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 10:34:28 AM »
does anyone actually think Mr Dawson has spent the past two years sitting at his desk overlooking the course with a pencil and paper drawing up changes

Mark,

I do.
I believe some are his suggestions, others are from Martin and few came from the green staff.
I think he's very hands on.

From earlier this year at Lytham, a press release:

"Royal and Ancient chief executive Peter Dawson says the St. Andrews-based organization has invested $16 million in toughening and tightening all courses used to host the Open Championship, including lengthening the courses for the 2012 and 2013 editions. Dawson said a fund was created to bring the nine courses used for the Open "into the modern era." He said an average of about $800,000 had been spent on each course, "but I would say its money well spent."

He's personally been involved with each course.
This work is part of his broader mandate to toughen all the Rota Courses.

to TOC and personally steamrollering them through the management structure of the Trust to get the work done?

They respect and trust his judgement.
I don't think this was steamrolled at any point.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 01:02:19 PM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 10:38:27 AM »
"eleemosynary"

Terry Lavin, come clean...do you retain these words in your idiolect or do you go to a thesaurus as I do?
Coming in 2024
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 11:18:42 AM »
"eleemosynary"

Terry Lavin, come clean...do you retain these words in your idiolect or do you go to a thesaurus as I do?

+1
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Brent Hutto

Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 11:33:20 AM »
They don't just hand out those judge gigs to guys what don't know from "eleemosynary". I mean c'mon!

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2012, 11:49:36 AM »
Mark, As a complete outsider, the most germane fact that sticks out, is not Mr. Dawson, but, Mr Hawtree.  If it's true that TOC requires careful study (reads plays) to fully understand her nuances, how does someone who doesn't golf, understand those nuances?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 01:26:28 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 12:18:45 PM »
Mark,

David Cameron may not individually select those public sector workers to make redundant but I can assure you that many of them hold him personally responsible.  That may seem unfair but as the head of the government whose policies (right or wrong) led to those redundancies, he is and cannot complain if he is held to be, responsible.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2012, 02:00:26 PM »
If and just say if Mr Dawson was against the changes, what happens when his chairman says "Dawson, announce the changes on Monday and get behind them"? How many people would honestly resign their six figure package and prestige within the game? Someone from the R&A will undoubtedly be inducted as an IOC member before the next games.
Cave Nil Vino

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2012, 02:15:53 PM »
"eleemosynary"

Terry Lavin, come clean...do you retain these words in your idiolect or do you go to a thesaurus as I do?

+1


27 years suing hospitals leads to knowledge of that term. And many others. My main affliction is that I studied four languages, went to a Jesuit school and I am a confirmed sesquipedalian (fond of using foot and a half long words).  And, no, I don't use a thesaurus.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2012, 02:22:58 PM »

eleemosynary

sesquipedalian

Sure, but can you say 'em 10 times fast?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2012, 02:24:17 PM »
If and just say if Mr Dawson was against the changes, what happens when his chairman says "Dawson, announce the changes on Monday and get behind them"? How many people would honestly resign their six figure package and prestige within the game? Someone from the R&A will undoubtedly be inducted as an IOC member before the next games.

Mark,

An interesting thought experiment. People take pay cuts when they join nonprofits -- well, when they join legitimate nonprofits -- so the assumption is he would earn more in the for-profit sector. I could see your hypothetical where Mr Dawson thought the equipment was out of hand and refused to go along with plans to disfigure TOC -- but then went through with them out of concern he couldn't get employed by the equipment companies, his most-lucrative follow-on job.

And so he remained quiet and gutted the course.

Very intriguing where you're going with this. Is it really hypothetical? What have you heard?
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Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2012, 03:03:18 PM »
Mark - no information at all.
Cave Nil Vino

Sean Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does the President personally shut down your local hospital?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2012, 04:54:25 PM »
Mark,

In that scenario I really can't see Mr Dawson personally offering to take tours of the course.  That to me is someone that truly believes in what is happening.  Yes Mr Dawson has been front and centre as he would be required to be given his position, it is my contention that at no time has he deferred a question on the architectural merit or intention of the changes to any other person.  

I'm pretty sure they employed an expert consultant to assist with these alterations to the course.  Along with Mr Dawson it is Mr Hawtree's name that is also attached to this process, strange that he has not spoken or no report explaining the changes in detail has been released by the Trust.  

So in your scenario if the President/PM didn't want to carry the can he'd put the Health Minister or Health Secretary (i.e Mr Hawtree or the Links Trust) in front of a journalist or two. Correct me if I'm wrong but a President or PM is only likely to offer a media stunt (tour) at a location if he/she believes they're onto a winner.        

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