Previously unknown pictures of Pine Valley dating to 1913-22 NEW: photos ID'ed

[Paul_Turner]

A slightly newer photo from Colt's book, labeled as the 1st.  I think the hut and trees confirm that 3162 is the 1st.

[Paul_Turner]

Again a comparison of the 17th from Colt's book.

[Mark McKeever]

In picture 03173 what is the dark strip going through the middle of the hole?  Is that a bunker?

mark

[Patrick_Mucci]

Again a comparison of the 17th from Colt's book.

Paul,

# 2, # 9 and # 17 were spectacular "SKYLINE" greens.

Restoring them to their former status would be a worthwhile and incredible architectural project.

Then, after completing that restoration, they could embark upon the restoration of the pimple/mound in the 18th green.

[archie_struthers]

 


As to 3172

Looking at this picture is really intriguing ,  I could be convinced its 16.  The elevation on #4 from tee to fairway would likely preclude you from seeing the treeline in the distance , while it would likely be visible from #16 tee.  

However , if the picture was taken from an area left ad forward of #4 tee.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Archie,

Agree on the inability to see the tree line from the tee on # 4

And, the incline on# 4 is rather steep

[PGertner]

Wonderful find.....

I think 3172 is 16 tee.

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI

[Mark Bourgeois]

Two updates to report:

1) the photos have been identified, including the POVs from where the photos were taken. Well, there remains a minor mystery or two, such as NJ545010 (aka 3162): "probably" the 9th hole. Also, the dates remain uncertain.

2) the quality of the images have been improved -- AMAZINGLY good! Zoomable, too. I will share links to two sites:
  a) smaller image but you control how much to zoom: http://tinyurl.com/crm54kd
  b) larger image but only one level of zoom: http://tinyurl.com/cb9xb7r

From the improved quality it's apparent these photos were taken not on one day but during different seasons. Also interesting, to me at least: some of these look like construction photos yet golfers appear in some of the photos.

For example, is this how Hell's Half Acre was meant to be presented? There are golfers on the far fairway. (And look at that walking path they must have had to take to get through Hell.)


Today's bunker in comparison almost seems like Heck's Half Acre.

I repeat my question from a thread showing a 1930 aerial: should Pine Valley be restored?

[ChipOat]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, so apologies if I'm repetitive.

I believe picture #13 is mis-marked.  I t looks more like the 6th fairway taken from the right junk - the green is out of sight to the right.  Either way, it does not look like #15.

#27 - no D.A bunker on #10.  I'm sure everyone but me knows when it was put in.

As Pat Mucci and I have agreed to disagree where necessary, I think the pimple on the 18th green was an excellent thing to have removed.  Too much like windmills and clown's noses for my taste.  If it was wider, (e.g. 4? or 5? at Somerset Hills), I would like that better (or dislike it less).  The 18th at PV is an excellent hole as it is.  Nothing "cute" is necessary, IMO

[Mark McKeever]

These pictures leave me speechless each time I see them..

Mark

[Mark McKeever]

Note how walking down to 3 green you can see the 7th fairway up on the hill.  Absolutely incredible!!

[Mark Bourgeois]

Mark,

There's an immediacy - more than that, an intimacy - to these photographs. The depth of field and detail is startling. If you look closely you'll see all sorts of markers of human activity . I find myself staring into footprints in the sand, wondering who made them.

If Oakmont can cut down trees can Pine Valley, too?

[Jim Sherma]

Note how walking down to 3 green you can see the 7th fairway up on the hill.  Absolutely incredible!!

What a great looking hole in this state. It's still an awesome green complex, but the openess allows the scale of the shaping to really stand out.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Who identified them?

As for Picture 13, I think it's mislabeled also. 15 is relatively flat up along the right side and looking back down the hole it would rise to 12/13. I think it either is a picture of 13 looking back from the green or 6 off the tee.

[Mark Bourgeois]

chipoat and Alan,

For clarity, are you referring to this pic?

[Mark McKeever]

Who identified them?

As for Picture 13, I think it's mislabeled also. 15 is relatively flat up along the right side and looking back down the hole it would rise to 12/13. I think it either is a picture of 13 looking back from the green or 6 off the tee.

Agreed Alan!  My first thought was that it was 13 looking back to the fairway.  These sand pits shapes are phenomenal.

Mark

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

chipoat and Alan,

For clarity, are you referring to this pic?

yes!!

I find the humps interesting in this and the HHA picture. I'm thinking they may have been created to catch/slow water, preventing washouts.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

FWIW I had it confirmed today that the picture in question is the right of 6 not 15 as listed.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Note how walking down to 3 green you can see the 7th fairway up on the hill.  Absolutely incredible!!

Mark,

I think that's the 6th fairway, NOT the 7th fairway

[Mark McKeever]

Good call Pat, its 6.

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

Good call Pat, its 6.

Mark

I agree it is probably #6.

[Norbert P]

  This old photo of Hell's Half Acre is fascinating. Can you imagine playing out of that?  
We had an area at Wine Valley GC in Walla Walla - left of 15th off tee (dubbed "Barchan Bight") - that offered an opportunity to do something like HHA and we used an old photo of it, but this photo here is considerably rougher and more agitated. As remarked earlier, today's version is anemic in comparison.



http://www.winevalleygolfclub.com/aboutus/coursephotos/

[Patrick_Mucci]

Slag,

The slope looks a bit too steep for # 7, are you sure this isn't the area off the tee on # 8 ?

 This old photo of Hell's Half Acre is fascinating. Can you imagine playing out of that?  
We had an area at Wine Valley GC in Walla Walla - left of 15th off tee (dubbed "Barchan Bight") - that offered an opportunity to do something like HHA and we used an old photo of it, but this photo here is considerably rougher and more agitated. As remarked earlier, today's version is anemic in comparison.



http://www.winevalleygolfclub.com/aboutus/coursephotos/

[Paul_Turner]

They've got photo 11 wrong.  It's the 17th green, not the 9th.

[AndrewB]

I think photo 7 (NJ545006) labeled as "looking from the 14th hole (not seen) across the lake toward the 15th and 16th holes" is more likely looking from the area between 18 and 5 towards the bridge that crosses from the fairway of 18 (on the right) to the green area (on the left).  The distance to the property edge (and hill prior to the train tracks) is much too close to be 14 and the shape of the lake fits that area much better than it does around 14, 15, and 16.