Fingers Crossed ~ We've Heard This One Before For Buffalo

[Ronald Montesano]

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121202/CITYANDREGION/121209804/1016

Get rid of landfills, new golf course...yes, we can.

[Ed Brzezowski]

is the course really named " South Park"??

I may have to ressurect my Eric Cartman headcover. Say it aint so Buffalo.

Looks like a great idea, sure beats another strip mall full of outlet stores.

[Carl Johnson]

We have two municipal golf courses in Charlotte that are built on landfills, one more successfully (Charles Myers) (at my last read on it) than the other (Renaissance Park).  Both have methane gas issues, which may be unavoidable.  At one point Renaissance had to be closed for a year or so do deal with issue of methane in the clubhouse.  Renaissance continues to have problems with foul looking substances bubbling up and random pieces of trash poking through here and there in the "fair"ways.  Caveat: I've not been to either course in the past couple of years, but I cannot imagine any change.  Also, keep in mind that I'm talking only about the landfill issues - not about the design or maintenance of the courses.

I hope that if Buffalo goes ahead with this project the result will be better than ours have been.

[Ian Andrew]

I did my thesis on landfill reclaimation.

The complications are a bit overwhelming unless you can manipulate the landfilling process to rough out the golf in advance.
It's a shame that isn't done, but everyone would need a "20 year view" to do so.

There are so many areas where the two "uses" contradict what you need to do.
Good luck to whoever does the work.

[John McCarthy]

There are several of these in Chicagoland
  Tim Nugent has done most of them I think. 

[Ronald Montesano]

In the article, they mention Hurdzan-Fry, which is interesting, as the two have gone their separate ways. Perhaps Widow's Walk swayed them. I've played Tim Nugent's Phoenix in Columbus, Ohio and CT Myers in Charlotte. I drove/photographed Renaissance Park a few years back.

This would be no place for a strip mall...more suited for a strip club.

South Park is in south Buffalo, on the border with Lackawanna (birthplace of Ron Jaworski). The name is an honest one and predates Cartman's virgin conception by many years...in other words, it's B.C.

[Terry Lavin]

If you want more replies, just send a PM to Stan Mountain.

[Carl Johnson]

In the article, they mention Hurdzan-Fry, which is interesting, as the two have gone their separate ways. Perhaps Widow's Walk swayed them. I've played Tim Nugent's Phoenix in Columbus, Ohio and CT Myers in Charlotte. I drove/photographed Renaissance Park a few years back. . . .

Stan, er . . . Ron - on your visits to Charles T. Myers and Renaissance, did you notice any landfill (not design or maintenance) issues?

[John Kirk]

My Dad was born in Lackawanna, and graduated from South Park High School in 1945.  I was there for a wedding a couple months ago.  Did not play golf while there.  My Dad learned to play golf at Cazenovia Park.

[Ronald Montesano]

Carl,

I'll be honest and say that when I played CTMyers, I was focused on the golf and did not pay special attention to the greater spectrum of the landfill. I remember seeing the vent pipes from time to time and, when I approached one, caught a whiff of something resembling Norwegian fish...it was a knockout punch.

At Renaissance, believe it, I was unaware that it was reclaimed land. I must not have paid much attention. The only sign I worried about was "Don't Leave Anything Valuable Visible In Your Car." I liked the course a good bit, even though I didn't have my clubs with me and was only there to shoot. I suspect that, had I gone in with a different agenda, my images would have reflected the present and former lives of both properties.

At Phoenix, one could look across Jackson Pike and see what the property  looked like at its worst. The majority of the course (holes 1-16) plays across an exposed portion of land, mimicking the moors, heaths and links of Europe. The last two holes are much different, a downhill par three over water to a small green and a jungly par four with little room for error.

[Ronald Montesano]

Here are two images from Google Earth of the approximate area. In the first, you see the proposed site to the upper left, the current South Park GC directly below it (9 holes) and the Cazenovia Park GC (9 holes) to the right.



In the second, I've outlined the maximum amount of usable land. It's an oddly shaped plot, but any 9 or 18 hole course that could be fit in there could be no worse than the current South Park GC.

[michael damico]

Ron,

this is pretty old. There was an RFP that concluded last month. I have no idea who submitted, but I'm sure Barry Jordan and his newly joined firm of EDR probably submitted a proposal. I was hoping for my firm to throw their hat in the mix, but didn't want to mess with Buffalo politics.

On a side note, I was also hoping for Scott Witter and/or Ian Andrew to throw their name into the mix. Local guys who would put together something special for the Upstate/Western NY public scene.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Here are two images from Google Earth of the approximate area. In the first, you see the proposed site to the upper left, the current South Park GC directly below it (9 holes) and the Cazenovia Park GC (9 holes) to the right.



In the second, I've outlined the maximum amount of usable land. It's an oddly shaped plot, but any 9 or 18 hole course that could be fit in there could be no worse than the current South Park GC.

I dont know about the size, but I wouldn't be worried about the odd shape to the plot, I am sure there has been a decent course done on a plot roughly in that shape at some point in history...




In fact I would like to submit the following routing just off hand.  Does anyone know the address I need to send my submission in to in Buffalo?

[Ronald Montesano]

That's fantastic. However, I believe that if you submit that routing and it is selected, it will be altered somewhat over the course of the next 400 years. Can you live with that?