[Ally Mcintosh]

1. Royal County Down (=)
2. Portmarnock (=)
3. Royal Portrush (=)
4. Waterville (=)
5. Lahinch (Up 1)
6. Ballybunion (Old) (down 1)
7. The European Club (up 1)
8. Tralee (Down 1)
9. County Louth (Baltray) (=)
10. Adare (=)
11. County Sligo (Rosses Point) (=)
12. Ballyliffin, Glashedy (Up 1)
13. Enniscrone (Up 1)
14. The Island (Down 2)
15. Portstewart, Strand (Up 2)
16. Mount Juliet (Down 1)
17. Killeen Castle (up 1)
18. Donegal (down 2)
19. The K-Club, Palmer (up 1)
20. Belmullet, Carne (Up 1)
21. Ballyliffin, Old Links (Up 1)
22. The Old Head of Kinsale (Up 2)
23. Portmarnock Links (Up 8 )
24. Royal Dublin (Down 5)
25. Portsalon (Up 2)
26. Doonbeg (Down 3)
27. Carlow (Up 2)
28. Rosapenna, Sandy Hills (Down 3)
29. Lough Erne (Up 3)
30. Carton House, Montgomerie (Down 2)
31. Cork (Down 1)
32. Dooks (Up 1)
33. Killarney, Killeen (Down 7)
34. Rosapenna, Old Tom Morris (=)
35. Castlerock (=)
36. Headfort, New (=)
37. Fota Island, Deerpark (Up 3)
38. Narin And Portnoo (Up 5)
39. Druids Glen (Down 2)
40. Concra Wood (Down 2)
41. Slieve Russell (Up 4)
42. The K-Club, Smurfit Course (Down 1)
43. Seapoint (Down 1)
44. Connemara (Up 4)
45. Luttrellstown Castle (Down 6)
46. Carton House, O’Meara (Up 3)
47. Tramore (=)
48. Heritage (Down 4)
49. Dun Laoghaire (Up 6)  
50. Palmerstown House Estate (Down 4)
51. Belvoir Park (=)
52. Malone (=)
53. Powerscourt, West Course (Down 3)
54. Portumna (Down 1)
55. Portrush, Valley (Up 3)
56. Glasson (Up 6)
57. Bunclody (Up 2)
58. Hermitage (Down 1)
59. Castletroy (Up 4)
60. Farnham Estate (Down 6)
61. Arklow (Up 4)
62. Mount Wolseley (Up 2)
63. Royal Belfast (Up 8 )
64. Westport (Down 8 )
65. Dromoland Castle (Up 4)
66. Clandeboye Dufferin (=)
67. Druids Heath (Up 3)
68. Powerscourt, East Course (Up 7)
69. Rathsallagh (Down 2)
70. Tullamore (Down 9)
71. Dundalk (Down 11)
72. Castlemartyr (Up 4)
73. Shannon (=)
74. Strandhill (Up 4)
75. Ardglass (Down 4)
76. Rosslare (Up 5)
77. Laytown and Bettystown (=)
78. Grange (Down 4)
79. Ballybunion, Cashen (Up 2)
80. Ballinrobe (Up 10)
81. Dingle, Ceann Sibeal (Up 17)
82. Esker Hills (New Entry)
83. Castle (Down 4)
84. St. Annes (Down 2)
85. Mullingar (Down 5)
86. Galgorm Castle (Up 2)
87. Galway Bay (Up 9)
88. Galway (Down 1)
89. Balbriggan (Up 3)
90. Courtown (Down 1)
91. Tulfarris (Up 3)
92. Knightsbrook (Down 7)
93. Bantry Bay (Down 7)
94. Kirkistown Castle (Down 1)
95. Killarney, (Mahony’s Point) (New Entry)
96. St. Margaret’s (New Entry)
97. Kilkenny (Down 14)
98. Skellig Bay (Down 14)
99. Athlone (New Entry)
100. Woodenbridge (=)

[Jud_T]

Waterville over Lahinch and Ballybunion pretty much shows you which side their bread is buttered on...

[jeffwarne]

I actually see a lot of improvement outside the Top 10
Mahony's Point moves into Top 100(not links but hauntingly beautiful, in addition to being a solid course with ineresting greens)
Dingle up 17 spots
Narin and Portnoo up 5
Portsalon up 2
Portrush Valley up 3
Strandhill up 4
Carlow up 2
Both Ballyliffins and Dooks, up 1

Almost none of my favorites dropped, and quite a few I felt overrated did

[Mark Saltzman]

Jeff, what do you think of the top 10?

[jeffwarne]

Jeff, what do you think of the top 10?

Top 10?
Having not played The European Club and Adare, I'd say I'm Ok with it based on what I know.
I happen to like Waterville and found it much improved this past June
I had played it 20-30 times starting in '91
I happen to think Ballybunion is overrated, I like it but I'd say folks lose their objectivity a bit based on the comments of a few famous supporters (not that there's anything wrong with that ) I like it a lot but I don't get that upset that it's not 1,2, or 3.
Portmanock? I can barely remember many holes from 20 yeays ago, but I can remember coming away impressed with its flow and subtlety I'd still say Top 5-at least Top 10.

i was certainly impressed with Tralee this June, after writing it off 20 years ago.

I'd have Portsalon Top 10 ,but I'm fine that it's not as I'd like that part of the world to stay as is.
Which is part of my disappointment at Ballybunion
Another favorite of mine is Narin and Portnoo which went big boy in the last few years, probably a better course now, but I miss the tiny bar/shop and fantastic quirky undiscovered course, bookended by a few ordinary holes(less so now). Close to Top 10 for me, but perhaps not, as the couple Top 10ers I haven't played would have to disappoint.

Top 100?
Dunfanaghy and Northwest GC, but it would have to come at the expense of some course I haven't played

[Ronald Montesano]

Assuming that the St. Patrick's courses (now part of Rosapenna) get up and running again, will they fit inside the top 100 anywhere?

[jeffwarne]

Assuming that the St. Patrick's courses (now part of Rosapenna) get up and running again, will they fit inside the top 100 anywhere?

I'd say yes after a facelift (100 is a lot for a small country)
Don't know whether they do 1 or 2 courses

[Jud_T]

How many would play 5 out of 10 rounds at the European club versus Baltray?  Of course it's right up Digest's alley....

[David Davis]

I always wonder about these rankings as well I guess. I've played 15 of the top 20 on the list and several of the others but I'd love to hear arguments for how some of these courses are rated.

Why is Old Head always so low, what's wrong with the architecture there? Is it because the inner holes (none cliff holes) are not that special?

How could Rosapenna, Dooks and Belmullet be rated lower than the K Club?

Also Portmarnock which I really enjoyed but didn't find more spectacular than Ballybunion or Lahinch or even The European Club for that matter and certainly not more impressive than Portrush.

I'd love to hear some of the Irish contingents views on the above if possible, or some of you other guys that have played them all and have some clear thoughts on this.

[Ally Mcintosh]

These rankings only really pay lip service to the Golf Digest categories... It's based on 12 guys sitting in a room for 3 days and debating / arguing / lobbying... In addition there is a readers panel who review (and in this case DO score) each of the courses and their views count for a small proportion of the final ranking... It's good fun if nothing else.... In Ireland (more so than Great Britain) I think it's even more difficult to place the inland courses and the links courses against each other - So you have to expect a sprinkle of them in the upper regions - the order the parklands fall is probably more relevant...

[David Davis]

Ally thanks, may I ask, is this a sensitive issue in Ireland? You seem pretty well placed and knowledgeable enough to offer really concrete answers to my questions that I'm sure I could learn from and realize what I'm missing here (I know rankings aren't perfect at all). Or is it just a matter of not having time or being interested in doing so, also a perfectly legitimate answer as far as I'm concerned.

If anyone would care to chime in here I'm quite curious as to what you think about the above questions I asked.

[Tom_Doak]

Always interesting (and strange) to see how courses are rated by the locals within a relatively small market.  Different p.r., different perspective on what makes a course stand out from the crowd.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I always wonder about these rankings as well I guess. I've played 15 of the top 20 on the list and several of the others but I'd love to hear arguments for how some of these courses are rated. My post above tells you how who and how they are rated but different people have quite different views. When I first joined the panel, I sat down and immediately announced - somewhat tongue in cheek - that the top-40 should be links. That was a mistake - showed my hand too quickly

Why is Old Head always so low, what's wrong with the architecture there? Is it because the inner holes (none cliff holes) are not that special? Others are more familiar than I with the course. Partly because of the inland holes yes. Take away the cliffs, replace with straight OOB and then consider the quality of each hole is one way of looking at it. Wouldn't be surprised to see it rise in years to come but it's always been rated higher by US magazines than British or Irish

How could Rosapenna, Dooks and Belmullet be rated lower than the K Club? Well, see my last post and my first point. It isn't in my book but it is in others. The Irish and British can be surprisingly offhand about their links - perhaps because they are in their back yard

Also Portmarnock which I really enjoyed but didn't find more spectacular than Ballybunion or Lahinch or even The European Club for that matter and certainly not more impressive than Portrush. It isn't more spectacular. But there's an incredible amount of subtlety. There is no weak link.

I'd love to hear some of the Irish contingents views on the above if possible, or some of you other guys that have played them all and have some clear thoughts on this.

[Shane Wright]

Dang...i was going to place a bet at how fast it would take Jud to comment on Euro Club, Waterville, or Old Head. But you were too fast. We get it...you dont like them.

I would take Euro Club 5/5 with Baltray.  I understand why you wouldnt but that doesnt mean everyone else is or should be the same.  And as i have mentioned before, I love Waterville but itabsolutely should not be above BB and Lahinch.

[Jud_T]

Shane,

1.  I like Waterville.

2.  Re- the European Club.  Let me guess, you're a single digit handicap.

3.  No mention of Old Head, you would have lost...   

[jeffwarne]

Shane,

1.  I like Waterville.

2.  Re- the European Club.  Let me guess, you're a single digit handicap.

3.  No mention of Old Head, you would have lost...   

I enjoyed the course Old Head, but it's not really my kind've place. Quite corporate, kind've Ski Lodgy in a Intrawest,Aspen, conciergy sort've way, not New England.
7 of my members loved it.
People make up course ratings.
I'd say my group is representative of most who have played it.
I'd say also it rates low in Ireland because it's very expensive and is perceived as being not overly local friendly, as well as there was resistance to locating it on such a national treasure as Old head.
I'm surprised it's not rate higher than the K club.

[Rich Goodale]

Thanks for the list, Ally.

I'm a bit surprised at seeing Portmarnock so high, based on my last visit there 4-5 years ago.  I was also a bit surprised seeing Ballyliffin (Glashedy) so high, but to be fair it is as good as Enniscrone (which I like better).  In general once you get past the fairly obvious top 6 you are struggling to find much greatness, and once you get into the second 50 it is terra incognita.  The only course I have visited that needs a big kick up the rankings is Connemarra, which is as good (if not better) than Carne (IMO).  Also needing a bit of a boost is Portsalon, but as Jeff says, part of me thinks that the more it is ignored the better.  There are some not so bad inland courses in Ireland (Athenry, Tuam and Malahide come to mind) but as Yogi Berra once said "nobody goes there any more because they are too crowded."

Rich

[Chris DeNigris]

Thanks for the list, Ally.

I'm a bit surprised at seeing Portmarnock so high, based on my last visit there 4-5 years ago.  I was also a bit surprised seeing Ballyliffin (Glashedy) so high, but to be fair it is as good as Enniscrone (which I like better).  In general once you get past the fairly obvious top 6 you are struggling to find much greatness, and once you get into the second 50 it is terra incognita.  The only course I have visited that needs a big kick up the rankings is Connemarra, which is as good (if not better) than Carne (IMO).  Also needing a bit of a boost is Portsalon, but as Jeff says, part of me thinks that the more it is ignored the better.  There are some not so bad inland courses in Ireland (Athenry, Tuam and Malahide come to mind) but as Yogi Berra once said "nobody goes there any more because they are too crowded."

Rich

Rich,

Appreciate the input on Connemara- I don't hear much about it here. I was planning to visit the area on my way from Lahinch to Carne/Enniscrone but I wasn't sure whether to schedule a round there. I think I might now    Thanks!

[Rich Goodale]

Thanks, Chris.  If you want to add even more spice to your trip, stop in at the incredible 9-holer at Mulranney, an hour or two south of Carne.  It's Brora as it used to be 100+ years ago.....

[Ally Mcintosh]

Thanks for the list, Ally.

I'm a bit surprised at seeing Portmarnock so high, based on my last visit there 4-5 years ago.  I was also a bit surprised seeing Ballyliffin (Glashedy) so high, but to be fair it is as good as Enniscrone (which I like better).  In general once you get past the fairly obvious top 6 you are struggling to find much greatness, and once you get into the second 50 it is terra incognita.  The only course I have visited that needs a big kick up the rankings is Connemarra, which is as good (if not better) than Carne (IMO).  Also needing a bit of a boost is Portsalon, but as Jeff says, part of me thinks that the more it is ignored the better.  There are some not so bad inland courses in Ireland (Athenry, Tuam and Malahide come to mind) but as Yogi Berra once said "nobody goes there any more because they are too crowded."

Rich

I could defend Portmarnock until the cows come home (although note it's actually moved down from no.1 since I joined the panel in case anyone thinks bias is at play) but I've done that on other threads. It has always been thought of very, very highly though - In Golf World's list it tended to sit around no. 7 until about 8 years ago. Trends have moved away from it a little bit. Also it's been less in the public eye. What I will say is they have a new Super (for 6 years) that has done wonders..... Connemara has gone up 14 places in two years, Portsalon has gone up 10 in the same time... Small steps... I think Sandy Hills was a little hard done by this year... I adore Carlow - It's not great in the same manner as the Surrey heathlands but there's great potential to restore a few features... There are some pretty decent inland courses alright, especially some of the older more traditional ones... But they have been overlooked by Celtic Tiger high end money in many people's heads... Still, there are some very good new ones as well....

[jeffwarne]

Thanks, Chris.  If you want to add even more spice to your trip, stop in at the incredible 9-holer at Mulranney, an hour or two south of Carne.  It's Brora as it used to be 100+ years ago.....

Chris,
I'll second Mulranny.
Not only did they have an honor box, they had an honor bar!!
Great fun and sheep cut so no lost balls.
On the way to Connemara,about 15 miles south of Maam Cross,  9 holer Connemara Isles is well worth the effort. Seaside/cliftop, but right along the water.
the scenery driving in is spectacular. Combination moorland, bog and moonscape.

I enjoyed Connemara, but I certainly wouldn't rate it above Carne. Clifden is a fun town to stay ii if you do 9, then 18 at Connemara, then play Mulranny on the way up to Carne.

[Tim Rooney]

Ally,
Thought Portmarnock was well designed ,on an average land parcel, not comparable with Lahinch nor Carne regarding overall experience?

[Gary Slatter]

Rich/Ally/Jeff/

Would TOP 100 IRELAND vs TOP 100 SCOTLAND, winner vs TOP 100 ENGLAND be a close contest ?

[jeffwarne]

Rich/Ally/Jeff/

Would TOP 100 IRELAND vs TOP 100 SCOTLAND, winner vs TOP 100 ENGLAND be a close contest ?

England
Though I have the least experience there
More variety with links heath park all of quality
scotland over Ireland more depth

[Tommy Williamsen]

How many would play 5 out of 10 rounds at the European club versus Baltray?  Of course it's right up Digest's alley....

Jud, I would gladly play 7 out of 10 times at TEC.  For me it has it all, save maybe long tradition.  It requires good tee shots, accurate irons, great imagination around the greens, and beauty.  The only hole that really doesn't do it for me is 18.  It just doesn't feel right and it has nothing to do with the water near the green.  

The list, however, is too long.  There really are not 100 courses in Ireland of note.  The bottom 50 could be in any order and no one would blink.  The cream is in the top thirty.  Beyond that the quality declines rapidly.  As I went though the list I have played 45 of them over the years.  There are only a few that I have not played that I would like to: Doonbeg, Carne, and Carton House, Montgomery.

The course I think is the most overrated is Waterville.  Just don't get why it is so loved.

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