Now the fun begins - Bradley to fight.

[Andy Troeger]

Jim,

Aren't broomsticks generally used by anchoring the top hand to the chest?  If the upper hand is held away from the body then it wouldn't be an anchored stroke.  Seems to me, never having tried a broomstick, that it would be very difficult to suspend the upper hand in the air to provide a fulcrum.

In my opinion the non-anchored broomstick is a whole different kettle than the anchored belly putter for a couple reasons. I don't see a case against the long broomstick that is held with a split grip; one at the very top as the fulcrum and one further down which controls the stroke.

The anchored belly putter, however, changes the fundamentals necessary to hole a putt. It virtually eliminates the possibility of an inconsistent angle of impact because the clubs swinging axis is now locked in place.

A full swing equivalent would be that practice drill that holds your wrists at a certain angle through impact. This particular "swing-aid" would benefit me greatly but I somehow think the USGA might not want me using it on the course.

Bryan,
Yes, I think most who use the broomstick do have their hand resting against their chest. I've played with it, however, and it is possible to hold your hand out from your body by a few inches without really changing the concept. The left arm has to be kept tight to the body (you could make the argument that its just moving the anchor spot) but its most certainly possible to adjust the stroke to putt without the top hand not touching anything other than the club. I don't see how the USGA can get that technical about arms touching other parts of the body, etc.

[JESII]

Along those lines Bryan, I think typically the hand is against the chest while holding the top of the grip. It seems different than sticking the end of the club into your gut to create a fulcrum. Your hand is still the fulcrum with typical "broomstick" use.

[Jud_T]

For those who can't see the difference between keeping your hand in place while resting it against your chest versus keeping it in place while holding it in space, I've got an original Mona Lisa to sell you cheap...

[JR Potts]

This issue is really simple for me:

Either you believe in a rule-making body's ability to levy rules governing their sport or you don't.  Let's not forget, it's just a sport.  There's no fundamental right which requires participation.  While you can debate the merits of the rules all you like - you can't pick and choose which ones to follow or which ones to contest in a court of law.  Litigation has no place in private rule-making unless it affects a fundamental right or a right which should be protected.  The ability to make millions of dollars is not such a right.

Finally, I think those of you who support Bradley's position and chastise the USGA/R&A for doing nothing about the ball, the club-head, etc. are hypocrites and are being intellectually dishonest.

My dickwad comment was made in jest for dramatic purposes only.  But if Bradley and Els (who previously admitted to using a long putter as cheating) file suit, I'm not sure my comment will be too far off.

That is all.

[Mike Hendren]

Mike Hendren putted lights out using a standard length putter.

Bill, I don't think I've ever enjoyed a match any more than ours at Dixie Cup.  Relaxed yet competitive.    I left HHI in a great mood, thanks in large part to your fellowship.  Sorry you caught me on one of those extremely rare days.  Even so, I do so enjoy reading the above sentence from your post.  It reminds me that hope springs eternal.

Kindest regards,

Mike

[John McCarthy]

I think Bradley would should have as much chance to win a lawsuit against the USGA as Deacon Jones would have had against the NFL when the NFL outlawed the head-slap. 

IIRC, Ping sued the USGA when the USGA claimed the Eye2 grooves were too close together.  Ping's theory (and I can't find a copy of their complaint) was that they followed the USGA's rules as then written, built a factory to sell these things, sponsored player's, etc. and the USGA ruled them as non-conforming wrongly, thus costing Ping lots of money.  Justifiable reliance?  If someone could point out a copy of Ping's complaint or at least where it was filed that would be nice. 

Bradley's theory would kinda be similar in that he learned this technique and should not have to change.  But the USGA gets to make up it's own rules as far as play is concerned in my opinion. 

I can't decide if I'm for or against the anchored putter.  The best argument against it is aesthetics - it does look goofy.  I've never tried a long putter so I can't say if it helps or not. 

[John_Cullum]

It reminds me that hope springs eternal.

Do you think Pope had the long putter in mind when he penned the above?

[Jason Connor]

I guess I don't understand how any one can sue.

I mean when the NCAA made a new rule that forbade dunking, Lew Alcindor couldn't sue. He was playing their game, he could play by their rules.

When the NHL cracked down on hooking after the strike, Sergei Gonchar should've sued, that was the only way he could play defense.

IndyCar mandates all tires be made by Firestone.  That's a rule to play the game.  USGA makes rules, PGA Tour says 'these are the rules we play by', Tour players can choose to play by the rules or not play.

Meanwhile for my games at the club, i can use a non-reg putter just like some guys play by winter rules in June.

That said, the ball seems to be a FAR bigger problem than long putters....

[JR Potts]

I guess I don't understand how any one can sue.

Never underestimate the ability of a lawyer to file a case for a fee.

I am replete with self-loathing.

[Andy Troeger]

For those who can't see the difference between keeping your hand in place while resting it against your chest versus keeping it in place while holding it in space, I've got an original Mona Lisa to sell you cheap...

Never said there wasn't a difference, I just said you can learn to put either way. I wouldn't expect a Michigan guy to understand that... 

[Carl Nichols]

I guess I don't understand how any one can sue.

Never underestimate the ability of a lawyer to file a case for a fee.

I am replete with self-loathing.

I would consider doing it pro bono just to make the general point Jonathan Mallard makes above.  [I realize that C Martin had an ADA claim and K Bradley doesn't...]

[Carl Nichols]

I'm a lawyer.  A lawyer who has laws changed every day that effect how I make my living.

How?

[John Kavanaugh]

Has anyone demonstrated a statistical advantage to using anchored putting techniques over traditional stokes?

Conversely, did any baseball players sue when the started using a humidor to treat balls used for Rockies home games?

I believe the extreme performance of modern golf balls threatens the financial viability of the amatuer game while the anchored putting issue poses a paper-thin threat to the perceived integrity of the professional game. Moreover, I believe damage to the amateur game threatens pro tours more than vice versa. Hence, I find the priorities of golf's governing bodies are misplaced.

How are amateurs being hurt by the modern golf ball?  At 52 I am a young baby boomer and I can't imagine a less lively ball would fuel my desire to spend more money on the game.  Golf can not lose the baby boomers and making us play even worse each year we grow older would do just that.

Modern golf balls have led to course renovations ($) and increased maintenance costs ($) associated with lengthening. These costs are often ultimately paid for by amateur golfers.

Yes, but golf has never been more affordable or accessible in the history of the game.  I guess if they make it even harder than more people will quit, courses close, private courses go public and the cost goes down even further.  Great plan!!!

I think most of you who whine about the ball never played with a Blue Max that became out of round in three holes or a Titleist that cut even quicker.  Fact is, possible because I am older, I hit the ball less far today than I did 30 years ago.  Here is a little secret, the problem with that has more to do with soft fairways than my age.  Like all things, it's not the ball it is the people involved.

I'll accept a shorter ball if I can play in tour conditions.

[Jud_T]

Has anyone demonstrated a statistical advantage to using anchored putting techniques over traditional stokes?

 golf has never been more affordable or accessible in the history of the game.  I guess if they make it even harder than more people will quit, courses close, private courses go public and the cost goes down even further.  Great plan!!!

You guys can't have it both ways.  Well I guess you can, but perhaps that's best left for another discussion....

[Mike Benham]

Never underestimate the ability of a lawyer to file a case for a fee.

Does anyone think that Els and Bradley will use their own money to hire the lawyer?

If so, I also have an original Mona Lisa to sell you cheap ...

[Kyle Henderson]

Never underestimate the ability of a lawyer to file a case for a fee.

Does anyone think that Els and Bradley will use their own money to hire the lawyer?

If so, I also have an original Mona Lisa to sell you cheap ...

I'll trade you for a Confidential Guide.

[JESII]

For those who can't see the difference between keeping your hand in place while resting it against your chest versus keeping it in place while holding it in space, I've got an original Mona Lisa to sell you cheap...

Assuming I'm one of the ones you were referring to...I do see the difference.

For me, the issue is with the end of the putter not the hand.

[David Bartman]

I think Bradley would should have as much chance to win a lawsuit against the USGA as Deacon Jones would have had against the NFL when the NFL outlawed the head-slap.  

IIRC, Ping sued the USGA when the USGA claimed the Eye2 grooves were too close together.  Ping's theory (and I can't find a copy of their complaint) was that they followed the USGA's rules as then written, built a factory to sell these things, sponsored player's, etc. and the USGA ruled them as non-conforming wrongly, thus costing Ping lots of money.  Justifiable reliance?  If someone could point out a copy of Ping's complaint or at least where it was filed that would be nice.  

Bradley's theory would kinda be similar in that he learned this technique and should not have to change.  But the USGA gets to make up it's own rules as far as play is concerned in my opinion.  

I can't decide if I'm for or against the anchored putter.  The best argument against it is aesthetics - it does look goofy.  I've never tried a long putter so I can't say if it helps or not.  

John, Here is one against PGA Tour

http://openjurist.org/936/f2d/417/gilder-v-pga-tour-inc


Here is synopis of USGA case with option to buy

http://az.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19900111_0000002.DAZ.htm/qx

[Ulrich Mayring]

I don't get this at all.

Why would it even be possible to sue the USGA / R&A over a rules change? It's their rules!

If the Tour loves belly/broomstick putters, well then why don't they simply allow them? They have their rules and nobody ever sued them for playing "lift, clean & place", "obstruction by sight" and whatever host of bloody rules they're constantly coming up with! Do the Longdrivers of America sue the USGA because they don't allow drivers longer than 48"? Of course not, they're just using whatever drivers they think are best for their game!

So Keegan Bradley can sue the Tour, if he thinks that will do the professional game any good. But what business does he or any other Pro have meddling with the amateur game??

Ulrich

[Jud_T]

Ulrich,

Keegan probably gets paid several million dollars to wield that putter.  Why?  Because they can sell 'em to you and I.  If we can't legally use them in a tournament or to post a handicap round, he loses that income.  Most top players make a multiple of their golf earnings in endorsements. 

[Jud_T]

Here's a timely bit of journalism in the brand new issue of Golf Magazine.  The article is entitled "Maximize Your Belly Putter:  How To Take Full Advantage Of The Belly's Main Benefit".  It includes such moment-grabbing advise as:

 "To make your stroke more solid and automatic with a belly putter, you need to make sure it's firmly anchored in your stomach.  If you simply rest it against your body, it's not much different from using a standard putter"

"Push-Push-the butt of the grip firmly in into your stomach until you feel that it's solidly anchored"

"As you start back, keep the putter anchored against your body so you create a physical fulcrum in your stroke.  This-not length-is the belly's true benefit."

I know these issues are planned well in advance and that editorial budgets are lean and mean, but seriously guys...

[Ulrich Mayring]

Jud,

I see your argument, but if long putters could not be sold anymore, then all the players wielding one would have to buy another putter. Hence, the putter makers are still in business. There will not be one putter less sold if long putters were banned.

And even if some companies went out of business, I still fail to see how the USGA/R&A could be blamed for consumers refusing to buy a certain type of golf club. Is anyone sueing the USGA/R&A because he would like to sell 50" drivers to the public?

This is preposterous. But I'm not a lawyer.

Ulrich

[David_Tepper]

"Could Keegan & Co. have a case against the PGA Tour?"

from the GolF Digest website:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/blogs/local-knowledge/2012/11/could-keegan-co-have-a-case-against-the-pga-tour.html

[Ulrich Mayring]

Against the PGA Tour he obviously has a case. Especially since he's a member and thus part-owner of it. He can always argue this organisation isn't representing the best interests of himself and other players.

But he has absolutely zero case against the USGA or R&A.

Ulrich

[Carl Nichols]

"Could Keegan & Co. have a case against the PGA Tour?"

from the GolF Digest website:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/blogs/local-knowledge/2012/11/could-keegan-co-have-a-case-against-the-pga-tour.html

Not exactly the most insightful discussion of possible causes of action.