Wilshire CC, A fascinating use of the topography and natural features.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Norman McBeth's use of creeks is simply marvelous.

The front of the 4th green is perfectly located in a loop in a creek.

The 9th and 18th greens are brilliantly located side by side and flanked and fronted by the same creek within a double loop.

In addition, that same creek provides for a flanking and diagonal hazard on # 18, a fronting hazard on # 11, a flanking hazard on # 12 and # 14
and another brilliant double loop surrounding and flanking the greens on # 3 and # 4

It provides a flanking hazard on the 3rd fairway, a diagonal fairway hazard at # 5, it flanks the green and is in play at # 5,

Then, it provides a flanking hazard all along the 8th hole, green and fairway and it protects the front of the 7th hole, a par 3.

It's probably the best use of a creek that I've ever seen, even better than ANGC.

But, that's not all.

McBeth used the terrain, much of it created by runoffs carved by water flowing off the distant mountains to the ocean as really, really neat features, especially by the greens.

I can't quite describe them, and the aerials don't pick them up, but, they provide great features, great obstacles near many of the greens.

Wilshire is one of the most unique, and enjoyable courses that I've played.

I'm surprised that it's not discussed more since the architectural features and holes are quite unique.

[Adam Clayman]

Ahhm, Can you really attribute the current creek, with MacBeth?

Modifications over the years has altered it, significantly.

But I agree with you. Wilshire is a very cool place.  Especially because it's in Hell A.

I suspect the creek was an even greater hazard, in yesteryears. It likely gets little discussion because few on this board have played there.

Pat, Do you know the famous Hogan story about the ninth's tee shot?

[Will Lozier]

It's probably the best use of a creek that I've ever seen, even better than ANGC.

I assume you are talking only about the 13th?  Cause the 12th is apparently fronted by a pond.  

Does anyone have any pics of Wilshere to depict Pat's point?

I found three cool pics of a 1931 match at WCC about three-fourths of the way down this page

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=5030332

that look like they are of just two greens which do use the creek quite well.  Would love to know what holes these are and what they look like today.

Cheers

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ahhm, Can you really attribute the current creek, with MacBeth?

Aerial and ground level photos from 1919, the 20's and 30's would tend to confirm McBeth.

Modifications over the years has altered it, significantly.

Based on the photos in the clubhouse, I"m not so sure about that.
Where were the holes/creek modified ?

But I agree with you. Wilshire is a very cool place.  Especially because it's in Hell A.



Is "HELL A" = Hollywood ?

I suspect the creek was an even greater hazard, in yesteryears. It likely gets little discussion because few on this board have played there.

Pat, Do you know the famous Hogan story about the ninth's tee shot?

Yes, "El Royale" 
I did the same thing on # 17 at TOC, so I believe it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

It's probably the best use of a creek that I've ever seen, even better than ANGC.

I assume you are talking only about the 13th?  Cause the 12th is apparently fronted by a pond.  

That's true, but, only because the Rae's Creek is dammed in that area.

Does anyone have any pics of Wilshere to depict Pat's point?

I found three cool pics of a 1931 match at WCC about three-fourths of the way down this page

Will, that's the 18th green, but, in the third picture, the guys in the foreground are sitting on the 9th green.

I hit a good drive and a 3-iron into that green and made 4, but, I can see how that hole produces big numbers.

It's a marvelous finishing hole.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=5030332

that look like they are of just two greens which do use the creek quite well.  Would love to know what holes these are and what they look like today.

The bank has been softened and the bridge less ornate

Cheers

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Once I have power, hopefully, there will be time to post pictures.  It is the 16th green that  is across the creek, but  adjacent to the 18th.  The 9th green is a tunnel walk across the busy Beverly Blvd.  This was the home course for my high school team and half my teamates and have played there at least 100 times since 1976.  The 3rd green is in desperate need of a restoation--it was once a fat shoulder extending from the left middle all the way down to the right tip which allowed for numerous interesting pin positions.  Years ago they lost the green because of tree issues, but chose to rebuild the green rather than cut down the tree forrests that blocked light and air, and of course the modern version came out bland.  The next rebuild was an even worse result.

[Patrick Kiser]

I too was quite enamored with Wilshire CC.  It's like having a little Scotland in L.A.

There have actually been a few threads not too long ago (see links below for reference).

We can argue all we want about what was / is there, but as it stands now ... it's quite good.  Make that damn good and REALLY fun to play.  I'd find it rather tough to get bored here.  Just a lot of variety and some really cool holes with rock solid strategy.  History and Hollywood factor = cool.

I have to commend the current conditions and maintenance practices, because playability is FANTASTIC!

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35166.0
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37013.0
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52181.5

[Terry Lavin]

Wilshire is a treat, plain and simple.  Great routing, phenomenal greens, great creek/barranca holes.  The one-cart tunnel.  And the staff there treats a guest like he's the club's president.  One of my favorite places to visit.  For me, the three-day LA trip with LACC, the Riv and Wilshire is hard to top.  I'm sure I could come up with a triple-header as strong in NY, but I haven't done that yet...

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Pat, nice to see you have discovered on behalf of golf club atlas Wilshire and the left coast.  Wilshire is good, not great.  Saying that I haven't seen it since the recent redo.  I know a few years ago Gil Hanse looked at it and felt that if given the opportunity he could do some great things with the place.  I have no doubt he could have.  I think he backed away from having to deal with a membership that lacked understanding and knowledge about architecture; not for sure on that.
Great use of the creek and land in front of the clubhouse it probably the most unique and best feature of Wilshire CC.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Once I have power, hopefully, there will be time to post pictures.  It is the 16th green that  is across the creek, but  adjacent to the 18th.  The 9th green is a tunnel walk across the busy Beverly Blvd. 


You're correct.

We didn't tee off on # 1 or # 10, so I got the holes mixed up.
# 9 is the El Royale hole.

This was the home course for my high school team and half my teamates and have played there at least 100 times since 1976. 

Lucky you.  What a fun course, and, local knowledge is a big factor in playing that course.

The 3rd green is in desperate need of a restoation--it was once a fat shoulder extending from the left middle all the way down to the right tip which allowed for numerous interesting pin positions.  Years ago they lost the green because of tree issues, but chose to rebuild the green rather than cut down the tree forrests that blocked light and air, and of course the modern version came out bland.  The next rebuild was an even worse result.

I noticed the awkwardness of the hole in terms of the Eucalyptus and other trees on the 5th hole side of the creek.
I hit a very good drive and had a wedge into the green.  My host hit a really good 3-wood off the tee and was in the middle of the fairway, totally blocked by the tall Eucalyptus trees.  It would be a far better hole if those trees were removed and a bunker placed between the creek and the green.

It's so obviously in need of having the trees removed.
In light of all the other trees that have been removed, why didn't they remove the ones on # 3/5 ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I too was quite enamored with Wilshire CC.  It's like having a little Scotland in L.A.

There have actually been a few threads not too long ago (see links below for reference).

We can argue all we want about what was / is there, but as it stands now ... it's quite good.  Make that damn good and REALLY fun to play.  I'd find it rather tough to get bored here.  Just a lot of variety and some really cool holes with rock solid strategy.  History and Hollywood factor = cool.

I have to commend the current conditions and maintenance practices, because playability is FANTASTIC!

Patrick,

I was told that you had played the course earlier this year.
I'm glad you found it as much fun to play as I did.
It's very unique.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35166.0
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37013.0
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52181.5

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, nice to see you have discovered on behalf of golf club atlas Wilshire and the left coast.  Wilshire is good, not great.  Saying that I haven't seen it since the recent redo.  I know a few years ago Gil Hanse looked at it and felt that if given the opportunity he could do some great things with the place.  I have no doubt he could have.  I think he backed away from having to deal with a membership that lacked understanding and knowledge about architecture; not for sure on that.
Great use of the creek and land in front of the clubhouse it probably the most unique and best feature of Wilshire CC.

Lynn,

I think Wilshire has the potential to be very, very good.
The question is, does the membership have the wisdom to take advantage of the routing and individual hole designs ?

The work on the back nine has been well received, hopefully that will spur the club on to do more, much more on the front, with some fine tuning on the back.

I would have contacted you, but, I was on a very tight schedule, I'll definitely touch base on my next trip.

Discovering OIL on the property was pretty neat.
Old photos show dozens and dozens of derricks/pumps

[Joel_Stewart]

I know a few years ago Gil Hanse looked at it and felt that if given the opportunity he could do some great things with the place.  I have no doubt he could have.  I think he backed away from having to deal with a membership that lacked understanding and knowledge about architecture; not for sure on that.

Kudos to Kyle Phillips on winning the job, dealing with the membership and doing a great job.  They have a fairly new GM at Wilshire who came from the east Coast and appreciates classic architecture as well.  It's not perfect yet, they have this phase work schedule but I'm sure after next year it's going to be even better.  I'm still waiting to see if the members rebuild the 3rd and 18th greens (which seems like a no brainer).   

[John Ezekowitz]

I can't speak to playability because I've never played it, but the old 18th green looks so, so much cooler than the current one.

[Adam Clayman]

Patrick, I last played there a long time ago. 2001. At that time, I think DLIII and likely our own Paul Cowley re-worked the creek (especially the rear portion behind the green on 5). I recall specifically how the fifth hole looked markedly altered from when I had frequented the course in the mid-90's.

The tenth green reminds me of the 10th at the Riv. with it's oblique angle and narrowness.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick, I last played there a long time ago. 2001. At that time, I think DLIII and likely our own Paul Cowley re-worked the creek (especially the rear portion behind the green on 5). I recall specifically how the fifth hole looked markedly altered from when I had frequented the course in the mid-90's.

What's really neat about the creek on # 5 is how the left side of the green slopes toward it and how balls hit with spin can back up and roll off the green, down the side of the green and into that creek.  My host was kind enough to point that out to me as I was about to hit a 6-iron into the green.
The creek isn't very visible in that lower corner after it makes it's diagonal cut across the fairway.  Only a sliver of the creek flanks the front left side of green before it goes underground and resurfaces on # 8

The tenth green reminds me of the 10th at the Riv. with it's oblique angle and narrowness.

Agree, I thought the scale of the hole was terrific, it's about 70 yards long and angled from low left to high right with plenty of bunkering and some barranca like depressions at the back left.

It's a fabulous hole and I can only imagine how difficult it plays when there's any wind.

Fun course.

[Randy St John]

Fairly new?  3 years in as of last month.  Plans are underway to complete the front nine fairway regrassing next summer.  Tree removal and some gentle bunker tweaks will also occur, same as the back nine this past summer.  While the 3rd and 18th greens are on the radar, the fairways come first.  There are several spots where the barranca was closed in over the years.  It is cost prohibitive to do the work at this pass, but long term is certainly on the club's wish list. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Randy,

Are the trees on the right side of the creek near the green on # 3 going to be removed ?

Will the fairway on# 8 be widened closer to the creek?

[Randy St John]

There will be continued thinning on the right side of 3.  We have already removed some trees there.  Too early to say on exact changes on #8.  We are still planning the grassing lines and tree pallet in that area.