[Paul Richards]

Does anyone know if the Golf Digest Top 100 lists (including the first two, which were America's Toughest, I believe) are gathered anywhere?  I would bet that someone has put together a spread sheet that has them all or there may be a site that compiles all of them through the years.  Anyone have any info on where this might be found?  Cheers, Paul

[Mark Pritchett]

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/golf-courses/2007-12/100greatestcourses_roster

[Tom_Doak]

I'm surprised they put this all in one spot.

If they put it in a spreadsheet so you could see all the changes over time, people would not pay much attention to the rankings anymore, because it would be obvious how little consensus there really is.  They would pretend it had to do with renovations &c. but I doubt that is the main driver at all.  Changing tastes and the power of the status quo are the main drivers of the rankings.

[Paul Richards]

Mark, excellent, thank you. 

Now the question is - is there a place that has each list separated?   For instance, I would like to see the 1995 list and compare it to the 2005 list.  Is there a link or spreadsheet for that?  It exists for Golf Magazine, posted by Masa Nishijima on a thread a while back---http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49274.0.html


https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AqVfI8kT3-pLdFc4TEd2dHhXbXRBT2U4bW1kbi02dnc&hl=en_US


If something like this exists for Golf Digest, please advise.   Thanks.

[David Stewart]

Seeing Camargo go from No. 55 in 2007-2008, which was its highest ranking in the 19 straight years it was on the list, to off in 2009 shows how nonsensical these rankings are.

[Nigel Islam]

The interesting thing about the GD ratings is that the first couple lists were actually the Top 200 Toughest Courses. Thus there are about 400 courses on the roster. Courses like Otter Creek in Indiana and Kentucky Dam are actually on the roster.

I also find it quite interesting that Shoal Creek and Firestone were on Golf magazine's WORLD Top 50 list in 1983.

[Nigel Islam]

Also I am curious as to what changed with Crystal Downs that it went from not making lists to being highly ranked? I am sure Tom or someone else could clue me in a little bit more on this. It had a rather meteoric rise (if anything it might still be ranked too low), but to the best of my knowledge the course is pretty much the same.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Also I am curious as to what changed with Crystal Downs that it went from not making lists to being highly ranked? I am sure Tom or someone else could clue me in a little bit more on this. It had a rather meteoric rise (if anything it might still be ranked too low), but to the best of my knowledge the course is pretty much the same.

For years Crystal Downs did not have enough ballots to get on the list.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Seeing Camargo go from No. 55 in 2007-2008, which was its highest ranking in the 19 straight years it was on the list, to off in 2009 shows how nonsensical these rankings are.

Or maybe it shows that it should not have been on the list in the first place.  That is why there are these lists, to create discussion about the greatest courses in the country. I have played it and can either way. 

[Tom_Doak]

Also I am curious as to what changed with Crystal Downs that it went from not making lists to being highly ranked? I am sure Tom or someone else could clue me in a little bit more on this. It had a rather meteoric rise (if anything it might still be ranked too low), but to the best of my knowledge the course is pretty much the same.

For years Crystal Downs did not have enough ballots to get on the list.

Crystal Downs was relatively unknown in 1983 when I first became involved with the GOLF Magazine rankings.  I put it on the ballot in '83 to see if anyone else had seen it, and the only panelist who'd been there was Jack Nicklaus, who played it on a family vacation when he was a kid.  So, I started trying to get a few panelist types up to play it.  It first showed up on the GOLF Magazine list in 1987 or 1989, I think, and was featured prominently in the first edition of The Confidential Guide, and then some more GOLF DIGEST panelists showed up.

The sad thing about Camargo is that it fell off the list just as they finished restoring it to its former glory.  The direction of how a course is faring in the rankings and what is happening on the ground there are sometimes completely unrelated or even opposed.  That's a great place, regardless of whether it's in the list or not.  I guess something's gotta fall out to make room for the b.s. courses like Rich Harvest Farms.

[Nigel Islam]

The sad thing about Camargo is that it fell off the list just as they finished restoring it to its former glory.  The direction of how a course is faring in the rankings and what is happening on the ground there are sometimes completely unrelated or even opposed.  That's a great place, regardless of whether it's in the list or not.  I guess something's gotta fall out to make room for the b.s. courses like Rich Harvest Farms.

Camargo is a little hard to get on. That might have something to do with it. I have been trying to figure out a way on there for some time now as I live 3 hours away. There definitely is a bias to the latest, "greatest" courses on these lists especially in slots 25-100.

Tom, thanks for the background info on Crystal Downs. I just loved that place!

[Tom Allen]

That too was my understanding of Camargo's demise from the list: it was not getting enough reviews to even qualify to be placed on the list (a course has to have a minimum number of reviews to make the Top 100).  So the drop-off was not due to course conditions, but solely due to the inability of raters to get on and rate it.

[Paul Richards]

Camargo definitely deserves to be on the GD list, but it is a difficult 'get'.  Besides enjoying my round there tremendously, I had the great honor to be using the locker-room facilities next to the astronaut, Neil Armstrong.

That being said, does anyone have all of these lists on a spreadsheet, year-by-year?

[Jim Colton]

Paul, all of the information should be on that linked page. It shouldn't be that hard to transition into Excel. I'd offer to do it for you if you having trouble with it.

[Paul Richards]

Jim, sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but the link I posted from Masa was for the spreadsheets for the GOLF MAGAZINE WORLD TOP 100 lists.

What I am looking for are the individual lists for GOLF DIGEST....

[Tommy Williamsen]

The starred courses are in the top 100.  Evidently both Camargo and Firestone do not have enough ballots as they both are listed above courses that are in the top 100.

2011-2012
We rank the top venues in Ohio
1. Muirfield Village G.C. (pictured above), Dublin ★
2. Camargo Club, Indian Hill
3. The Golf Club, New Albany >★
4. Firestone C.C. (South), Akron
5. Inverness Club, Toledo ★
6. Double Eagle Club, Galena ★
7. Scioto C.C., Columbus ★
8. NCR C.C. (South), Kettering
9. Brookside C.C., Canton
10. Kirtland C.C., Willoughby
11. Sand Ridge G.C., Chardon
12. Canterbury G.C., Cleveland
13. Coldstream C.C., Cincinnati
14. The Country Club, Pepper Pike
15. Longaberger G.C., Nashport ♣ ♦
16. Fowler's Mill G. Cse. (Lake/River), Chesterland ♦
17. Firestone C.C. (North), Akron
18. Shaker Heights C.C., Shaker Heights
19. Shaker Run G.C. (Woodlands/Lakeside), Lebanon ♦
20. River's Bend, Maineville
T21. Congress Lake Club, Hartville
T21. Tartan Fields G.C., Dublin
23. Wedgewood G. & C.C., Powell
24. Pinnacle G.C., Grove City
25. Ohio State University G.C. (Scarlet), Columbus
KEY TO SYMBOLS
 Courses you've played
★ 100 Greatest Golf Course
♣ 100 Greatest Public
♦ Open to the public


Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/ohio#ixzz2Aq78Ehn8

[Jim Colton]

Jim, sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but the link I posted from Masa was for the spreadsheets for the GOLF MAGAZINE WORLD TOP 100 lists.

What I am looking for are the individual lists for GOLF DIGEST....

Right, and all of the data you need is on that long list that is on the Golf Digest site. Should be easy enough to convert that to Excel with a little bit of work.

[Paul Jones]

I cannot believe Myopia Hunt has never been ranked  .  That is one of my all time favorites.

[Paul Richards]

Jim, please take a shot at it, if you would like.  I know, for one, that i would appreciate it!  But as I am not that tech-savvy, I would have to input each into a cell by hand, and I assume that would take many, many days.  Do you have a simpler way to convert it? 

[Jim Franklin]

Myopia doesn't have enough panelists votes either. They need 45 visits in order to get ranked.

[Paul Jones]

Myopia doesn't have enough panelists votes either. They need 45 visits in order to get ranked.

Myopia Hunt is still behind Salem and Essex and neither of those are ranked either. 

1. The Country Club (Clyde/Squirrel), Brookline ★
2. The Kittansett Club, Marion ★
T3. Boston G.C., Hingham ★
T3. Old Sandwich, G.C., Plymouth ★
5. Essex C.C., Manchester
6. Salem C.C., Peabody
7. Myopia Hunt Club, South Hamilton

[Jim Colton]

Here you go, Paul:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtI2sGAMtMU9dHpFdjBFVmJWLW5fWmF3ZG1IRDcya0E

[Alex Lagowitz]

what happened to quaker ridge?
Biggest ranking tank ever!

America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2007-2008) - Third 10 - No. 33
America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses (2009-2010) - Ninth 10 - No. 81
OFF 2011

from 33rd to off in less than 4 years

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

That's fascinating.

Quaker Ridge was 14th, twenty years ago.  Colonial and Oak Tree and Long Cove were all in the top 20 at one time, all of them gone now.

And it's even more fascinating when you know that they still give "tradition" points to courses that have previously been on the list.  Without that fudge factor, the divergence would be even greater.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Jim:

That's fascinating.

Quaker Ridge was 14th, twenty years ago.  Colonial and Oak Tree and Long Cove were all in the top 20 at one time, all of them gone now.

And it's even more fascinating when you know that they still give "tradition" points to courses that have previously been on the list.  Without that fudge factor, the divergence would be even greater.

Tom GD no longer gives tradition points.
Quaker Ridge may not get on the list this time either.  They asked that all the old numbers be purged and I don't think they will have enough ballots for this years list. Could be wrong about that last part though. We will see.

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