[BCrosby]

Has anyone seen the BBC2 documentary on that bundle of charm Donald Trump and his shenanigans in Scotland? News reports have it that he may sue the BBC for defamation and sundry other things. Sounds like a must see.

Bob

[Jon Wiggett]

Bob,

already a couple of threads about this topic.

Jon

[David_Tepper]

Here is a very long, ongoing thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50828.0.html

[Garland Bayley]

Has anyone seen the BBC2 documentary on that bundle of charm Donald Trump and his shenanigans in Scotland? News reports have it that he may sue the BBC for defamation and sundry other things. Sounds like a must see.

Bob

Someone defame Donald Trump? Don't let Patrick know.

[Mark Chaplin]

It may have been a touch one sided but his people acted like complete animals. Cutting off a locals water for over a week, building 30' berms in front of a house, calling the police at every opportunity. Trump and his people should be ashamed of their conduct. I hope golfers avoid the place at all costs.

[Chris DeNigris]

It may have been a touch one sided but his people acted like complete animals. Cutting off a locals water for over a week, building 30' berms in front of a house, calling the police at every opportunity. Trump and his people should be ashamed of their conduct. I hope golfers avoid the place at all costs.

Because that would be in the best interest of the local Aberdeenshire economy and Scotland in general...right.

I guess it wouldn't have too much of a negative effect on the southeastern UK economy though...

[Jon Wiggett]

It may have been a touch one sided but his people acted like complete animals. Cutting off a locals water for over a week, building 30' berms in front of a house, calling the police at every opportunity. Trump and his people should be ashamed of their conduct. I hope golfers avoid the place at all costs.

Because that would be in the best interest of the local Aberdeenshire economy and Scotland in general...right.

I guess it wouldn't have too much of a negative effect on the southeastern UK economy though...

Chris,

whilst there would be an undoubted benefit to the Trump project doing well for the local economy if it fails it will have very little to no negative effect on anything except the SSSI that has been destroyed. No matter what the reasons there can be no excuse for how the Trump organasation has acted and it shows how badly advised he has been on a PR level as this may fly in the USA but not amongst the people here.

Jon

[Mark Chaplin]

Chris - not sure what the benefits are to the local economy at the moment? No hotel, no houses and no 5000 jobs, just a few greenkeepers and golf operations people and not forgetting security and lawyers who probably are doing well from the project!

I'd like to see some evidence that one new high end development anywhere in Scotland helps the national economy. To help the economy it would need to drive NEW and EXTRA  golf business to the country. I'm sure Castle Stuart has assisted in getting more golfers to Inverness-shire but are these players who would have gone to Fife, East Lothian or Ayreshire instead?

[Chris DeNigris]

Chris - not sure what the benefits are to the local economy at the moment? No hotel, no houses and no 5000 jobs, just a few greenkeepers and golf operations people and not forgetting security and lawyers who probably are doing well from the project!

I'd like to see some evidence that one new high end development anywhere in Scotland helps the national economy. To help the economy it would need to drive NEW and EXTRA  golf business to the country. I'm sure Castle Stuart has assisted in getting more golfers to Inverness-shire but are these players who would have gone to Fife, East Lothian or Ayreshire instead?

Okay...so the idea is to hope for the golf course to fail so that the future possible economic development never materializes? That's a good strategy? Maybe if you don't live there.

Try telling the guy or gal who works at the golf course that it doesn't matter if they lose their job.

[Brian_Ewen]

Try telling the guy or gal who works at the golf course that it doesn't matter if they lose their job.

Sorry Chris, how many are we talking about here ?

[Chris DeNigris]

Try telling the guy or gal who works at the golf course that it doesn't matter if they lose their job.

Sorry Chris, how many are we talking about here ?

I dunno Brian, how many does it have to be before you care?

[Jon Wiggett]

Chris - not sure what the benefits are to the local economy at the moment? No hotel, no houses and no 5000 jobs, just a few greenkeepers and golf operations people and not forgetting security and lawyers who probably are doing well from the project!

I'd like to see some evidence that one new high end development anywhere in Scotland helps the national economy. To help the economy it would need to drive NEW and EXTRA  golf business to the country. I'm sure Castle Stuart has assisted in getting more golfers to Inverness-shire but are these players who would have gone to Fife, East Lothian or Ayreshire instead?

Okay...so the idea is to hope for the golf course to fail so that the future possible economic development never materializes? That's a good strategy? Maybe if you don't live there.

Try telling the guy or gal who works at the golf course that it doesn't matter if they lose their job.

Chris,

where does Mark C say he wants it to fail? Just because he has had the audacity to not agree with you should not warrant the sort of 'shout em down' answer you have given. If you do not have the same opinion then why not put forward the facts that back your point of view.
It is a shame these sort of discussions always seem to end up like this.

Mark,

up here around Inverness, the CS project has really given the area a buzz. I do however think that some of what you say is correct and golfers have been redistributed. However, it definitely has brought people to Scotland that otherwise would not have played.

Jon

[Chris DeNigris]

Chris - not sure what the benefits are to the local economy at the moment? No hotel, no houses and no 5000 jobs, just a few greenkeepers and golf operations people and not forgetting security and lawyers who probably are doing well from the project!

I'd like to see some evidence that one new high end development anywhere in Scotland helps the national economy. To help the economy it would need to drive NEW and EXTRA  golf business to the country. I'm sure Castle Stuart has assisted in getting more golfers to Inverness-shire but are these players who would have gone to Fife, East Lothian or Ayreshire instead?

Okay...so the idea is to hope for the golf course to fail so that the future possible economic development never materializes? That's a good strategy? Maybe if you don't live there.

Try telling the guy or gal who works at the golf course that it doesn't matter if they lose their job.

Chris,

where does Mark C say he wants it to fail? Just because he has had the audacity to not agree with you should not warrant the sort of 'shout em down' answer you have given. If you do not have the same opinion then why not put forward the facts that back your point of view.
It is a shame these sort of discussions always seem to end up like this.

Mark,

up here around Inverness, the CS project has really given the area a buzz. I do however think that some of what you say is correct and golfers have been redistributed. However, it definitely has brought people to Scotland that otherwise would not have played.

Jon

Jon,

Mark said "I hope golfers avoid the place at all costs". Maybe I miscontrued his meaning but that's not a glowing endorsement.

And Jon- In the more in depth thread about TS I unemotionally put forth tons of factual evidence to counter the misinformation that you and others have perpetuated. Most of that was gleaned from the Report to Scottish Ministers which is available for all to read. You might want to take a gander...that is, before you "shout me down"....

[Jon Wiggett]

Chris,

just because you do not endorse something does not mean you want it to fail. Please tell me where I have misinformed.

Jon

[Paul Gray]

I really feel as a collective us golfers are not representing ourselves well by keeping so quiet over this. This whole project has flown in the face of the natural principles of links golf, both in terms of actual physical activity and a more general relationship with the area as a whole.

I'm no anarchistic flag waving lunatic but I have to speak out when someone like Trump misrepresents us all so badly. And be assured, rightly or wrongly, unless more of us are heard this whole saga will be seen by the wider World as golf vs nature. We can't alter what's already happened but we can effect demand. Simply don't visit the place and encourage others to at least search their conscience before planning a trip.

I studied economics at university and worked in The City for years but none of this means I've ever thought economic development was such a holy grail that we should abandon all other principles in pursuit of it. Suggesting that we should endorse the whole project because a few locals are now employed by Trump is about as smart as suggesting we speed up the destruction of the rain forest in order to boost economic growth in South America. And anyway, even if for now we ignore the very valid point that much of this Trump related growth is actually just the shifting of tourism from one place to another, has no one spotted the elephant in the room? Trump will only build his hotel now if the wind farm project is scrapped. I have no figures to refer to but I'm sure the growth of a renewable energy industry off the east coast would provide far better long term benefits to the area as a whole than one hotel/golf resort.

[Ben Attwood]

Paul, I agree.

It's easy to become confused when discussing the economics of the situation as economic predictions seem to be as varied as our weather. However when you look at the role of Scottish government, the disregard of the SSSI and the way the people who own their own land were treated it's muuch more difficult to become confused. I will not be playing the course.

[Mark Chaplin]

Chris - Trump/SNP steamrollered the course through planning on the back of "promises" of huge economic benefits to the area, I for one could never see how a golf course could support 500 jobs let alone 5000. I'm sure that figure included every subcontractor doing 1/2 days work on a new house. Now Trump has thrown his teddies in the corner over the wind farm.

As Paul says the objectors are not a bunch of blow ins and professional protestors, these are local people living on the land surrounding the development. Now sometimes local opinion and people's land and houses have to go for the greater good and it maybe proven in the future that the Trump course is a substantial economic benefit to the area.

When you have a house over looking the dunes and the sea, but consider it an eyesore, only a bully builds a 30' high earthwork to remove the house from view.

[Brian_Ewen]

When you have a house over looking the dunes and the sea, but consider it an eyesore, only a bully builds a 30' high earthwork to remove the house from view.

I was under the impression that the Old Coastguards House was a listed building and was sold as such.

Strange that building that berm around it didnt affect this ?

[Brian_Ewen]

I dunno Brian, how many does it have to be before you care?

Answering a question with a question ...... Welcome to Golf Club Atlas's Forum 2012 

[Paul Gray]

For anyone that at least wants to be counted, just sign up to 'Tripping Up Trump.' As I've already said, I don't make a habit of joining protests (in fact I've never actually been on a protest march), but this I'm not prepared to see being represented as being reflective of the desires of all golfers.

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