[David_Tepper]

Article by John Paul Newport in today's Wall Street Journal on side-saddle putting, featuring 8-time Olympic Club club champion Randy Haag:

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10000872396390444868204578066733271412100-lMyQjAxMTAyMDIwMDAyODA3Wj.html?mod=wsj_valetleft_email

[Wade Whitehead]

This weekend's winner of the Saul Shootout for The George Cup putted side saddle.

I'll let him and others tell the group about it.

WW

[John Keenan]

Would this be effected if the belly putter is banned? 

If the reason it is banned is due to affixing it to the body, then I do not think it would be effected

If the ban involves length then it may go

Seems that the side saddle method is well within the spirit of the game as it is very much a stroke. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

[/b] date=1350829033]
Would this be effected if the belly putter is banned? 

If the reason it is banned is due to affixing it to the body, then I do not think it would be effected

If the ban involves length then it may go

Seems that the side saddle method is well within the spirit of the game as it is very much a stroke. 

"SIDESADDLE IS WELL WITHIN THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME" ?  ?  ?

Hey, it's Halloween, not April Fool's Day.

That's an absurd statement.

Sidesaddle, croquet, belly and long putters are the antithesis of the spirit of the game

[Keith Doleshel]

This "spirit of the game" argument is something I find humorous.  Everyone on here probably has a different opinion on what that means.  What makes sidesaddle putting against the spirit of golf?  The USGA and R&A should have bigger concerns about the game than changing rules in place about long putters and how one can putt. 

[JSlonis]

Pat,

To play devil's advocate...

The Long/Belly putter issue and this Spirit of the Game argument never made sense to me. I hear it a lot, but I don't think it has any merit.  No where do the governing bodies ever mention a particular swing or method when trying to describe this "spirit". We are given 14 clubs and with very few exceptions, we can choose to use them in any matter that we wish to get the ball into the hole in as fewest shots as possible. Would Old Tom Morris think that 460cc drivers and lightweight graphite shafts are within the Spirit of the Game? How about Bubba Watson flying it 330yds? Right or wrong, long/belly putters have been legal for over 25 years.  It was an innovation in putting and certainly helped some golfers. From genration to generation, innovation has always been part of the game. I'd argue that while these putters and method's were always allowed, they were more in keeping with the spirit of the game than violating it.

Here is what the R & A say about the "Spirit of the Game":

**Spirit of the Game**

"Honesty, integrity, courtesy: three words that have come to represent the spirit in which the game of golf is played.

Part of that spirit sits beneath the term, ‘etiquette’ and part of it relates to the Rules of Golf. But the Spirit of the Game goes much deeper than just those two tangible terms.

It is something that every golfer should develop an innate sense of, something that is born of golf’s unparalleled history, and something which lifts golf, one could argue, above other sports.

Whether it’s through divot and pitch-mark repair, or simply through silence on the tee, the spirit of the game dictates that players make sure they give others on the course, often opponents, a fair chance to play the best shot they can.

For most of us, the game of golf is self-regulating. There is seldom a referee present so we are reliant upon our own honest adherence to the Rules in order to enjoy the game. As a result we are all occasionally forced to call a penalty on ourselves for infringements which, often, will go unnoticed by everyone else.

“ Honesty, integrity, courtesy: three words that have come to represent...the game of golf. ” It is this dependency upon honesty and courtesy that has elevated ‘integrity’ to sacrosanct status. Without them, we may as well hang up our clubs."

[John Keenan]

JSlonis

Well written and insightful post and after reading it I would go back and edit out that phrase from my post. I use it to mean skill and ability. Even with a side saddle putter it all still comes down to a players ability to execute the shot.


Thanks for the post and the insight.

[Mike McGuire]

I have putted side-saddle 75% of the time over the past 25 years and believe it to be a superior method.

What I dont like is the burden it places on your playing partners as they have less places to stand. For that reason I have been putting mostly conventional over the past couple years. The exceptions being a few events where it really mattered.

[mike_beene]

Ray Floyd was so open he was almost side saddle.Where would you draw the line?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jamie,

After getting nervous over, and missing one footers I tried the long putter with good results.

However, I could never brainwash myself into thinking that the use of a belly or long putter exemplifies the " spirit of he game"

Snead's initial style was a hybrid form of croquette, as is sidesaddle.

Belly and long putters, while efficient, seem contrary to tradition and the spirit of the game.

I know that you, Ken Bakst and other exceptional players use them.
I know that I enjoy golf more since I began using one, but, if they're banned, or if affixing them or your arms to your body is banned, I won't play any less golf.

I'm content that my use is within the rules of golf, but if the rules are modified, I'll have to abide by them, just as I did when the USGA banned the "paddle grip".   I was a very good putter with my Tommy Armour IMGT blade with a paddle grip and went downhill with it's demise, yet, the USGA permits jumbo grips, flattened grips and balls that when hit with tennis racket sized clubheads, go a zillion yards.

Keep using and enjoying your long putter, like I do, until we can't

[JSlonis]

Pat,

Although I'll continue to argue against the banning of the long/belly putters...

After nearly 18 years, I've actually stopped using the long putter. I switched last month to a 35" Heavy Putter "Mid-Heavy" Answer style model and I use it with the claw grip that Mickelson's been using. Thanks to my friendship with the head of Callaway, I've got a custom 35" Odyssey prototype heavier model putter coming this week to try as well. 

Throughout my extended time with the long wand, I was always a pretty consistent putter.  I had my normal good/decent days, a fair amount of great rounds and very few poor rounds.  Even with the consistency with the long model, I always thought that if I could count on a solid stroke, the short putter allowed for better feel and line on tougher, sloping greens.  

My breaking point with the Long Putter came after playing in a Stag Day at Fieldstone (Del) last month. I just had a lousy day with my long putter.  The next day, I picked up the short Heavy model I had laying around, tried it with the claw grip and felt really comfortable. I spent a few days practicing, then brought it out to the course for a couple of rounds with some nice success.  It's been in the bag since.  My stroke has felt solid with no nervous issues and I've been holing the putts I should make as well as making more of the medium range putts.

I've seen the writing on the wall from the governing bodies regarding the anchoring method and I'd be shocked if a change isn't coming.  I will say that I think this issue has been pushed primarily from the R & A and the USGA has been late to the party.  From discussions I've had, I don't think this was on the USGA's radar a few years ago.  It'll be interesting to see that language that they come up with to enforce the ruling. It'll also be interesting to see the time period and playing level of enforcement.  I'll never agree that the anchoring method should be outlawed for the average golfer.  Maybe they'll do what they did with the goofy "groove" rule and stagger the time periods again.  They really bifurcated the rules already with that issue but just didn't call it what it was.

We'll see....

[JESII]

In my opinion, the belly putter fundamentally changes the mechanics of the putting stroke in a way that virtually forces a good stroke. Feel is comprimised but on relatively straight putts it's a huge advantage.

Keeping slope in the greens and speed relatively up and you'll see fewer of them.

[JSlonis]

In my opinion, the belly putter fundamentally changes the mechanics of the putting stroke in a way that virtually forces a good stroke. Feel is comprimised but on relatively straight putts it's a huge advantage.

Keeping slope in the greens and speed relatively up and you'll see fewer of them.

Sully,

I could never get the feel of the stroke with the belly method.  I was much better using the long.

In regard to the speed and slope of greens and it's effect on the long/belly, I agree 100%.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ray Floyd was so open he was almost side saddle.Where would you draw the line?

Probably with the grip and maybe with mandating ball position between the golfer's feet.

[Rick Shefchik]

Nobody doubts that the yips exist. Most of us would also agree that the game of golf is, at its core, a game. Games are meant to be challenging, but there has to be a fun element as well, or we wouldn't play them. Yips take the fun out of golf. To play a hole well from 420 yards to within two-and-half feet and then screw up the shortest and theoretically easiest shot of the sequence is too much for some to stomach.

Some players have resorted to other ways -- fully within the current rules -- to cover those last two-and-half feet. The fun has returned to the game for many of those players.

By all means, R&A and USGA, this must stop. We cannot allow players to regain their love of the game through funny-looking methods of sinking two-and-a-half footers.

[Matthew Essig]

My 2 cents-

If a swing is not anchored, I believe it should be allowed.

[Patrick_Mucci]

My 2 cents-

If a swing is not anchored, I believe it should be allowed.

Define "anchored"

I can hold the top of the long putter away from my body but anchor my bicep or forearm.

[Rick Shefchik]

My 2 cents-

If a swing is not anchored, I believe it should be allowed.

Define "anchored"

I can hold the top of the long putter away from my body but anchor my bicep or forearm.

Exactly, Pat. It will be fascinating to see how the ruling bodies define -- and propose to enforce -- this change.

[Dan Kelly]

My 2 cents-

If a swing is not anchored, I believe it should be allowed.

Define "anchored"

I can hold the top of the long putter away from my body but anchor my bicep or forearm.

Exactly, Pat. It will be fascinating to see how the ruling bodies define -- and propose to enforce -- this change.

Seriously: I'm pretty sure I can "anchor" both of my biceps to my ribs and both of my forearms to my belly with a SHORT putter, and make a good stroke.

Not so seriously: Maybe it's time to get back on the treadmill!

Not at all seriously: We might have to get Dear Abby involved in this. Prior to this recent long-putter brouhaha, it was Abby alone (or maybe her sister, Ann Landers) who stuck her nose into the business of dictating how close together various body parts must (or must not) be.

[JSlonis]

Shivas,

I'm only going with one putter. The shorty claw method has been great so far. I've tried to switch to the shorty a few times in the past but it only lasted a few rds. This combo has worked far better and seems like it'll last.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Shivas,

I'm only going with one putter. The shorty claw method has been great so far. I've tried to switch to the shorty a few times in the past but it only lasted a few rds. This combo has worked far better and seems like it'll last.

Jamie,

What's interesting about this issue, is that many years ago, other than Snead you didn't hear of guys having the yips, or problems pulling the trigger, especially young guys.

I wonder how much of the yips and problems pulling the trigger is due to faster green speeds ?

[Ken Moum]

Shivas,

I'm only going with one putter. The shorty claw method has been great so far. I've tried to switch to the shorty a few times in the past but it only lasted a few rds. This combo has worked far better and seems like it'll last.

Jamie,

What's interesting about this issue, is that many years ago, other than Snead you didn't hear of guys having the yips, or problems pulling the trigger, especially young guys.

I wonder how much of the yips and problems pulling the trigger is due to faster green speeds ?

Jeezuz Pat, where were you in the 1960s.. when green speeds were much slower?

Hogan was freezing over the ball back then.  I personally played back then with a couple of guys who were on the tour in the 40s and watching them putt was painful.  One, a club pro I had in a pro-am, missed a 2-footer on the second hole, and then proceeded to hit the flagstick with approach shots three times in the next six holes.

The other was a college administrator who was one of the two best ball strikers I ever saw.  He'd spasm one into the side door and say, "Picked that one right out of the middle."

Walter Hagen clearly had the yips, although back then they called the affliction "whisky fingers" and attributed it to his drinking.

Golf Magazine's Your Short Game was published in 1962 and included a chapter called, Curing the Yips.

Hell, the affliction was supposedly named by Tommy Armour, who used it to describe what drove him off the tour in the was a victim.

Even Bobby Jones and Harry Vardon were reported to suffer from them.

Maybe nobody was worse than Leo Diegel,

Who resorted to this



FWIW, when it comes to anchoring and whether or not it's traditional, it's pretty clear that Walter Travis is anchoring his putter in this picture.



K

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ken,

Leo Diegel's style is not that much different from Bobby Locke's, and he was a great putter.

In the mid 60's Snead and Hogan were already approaching their mid 50's and well past their prime.

As to Tommy Armour, he only had one eye and was already in his 70's by the mid 60's.

The yips and related putting problems weren't much of a factor with those in their prime

[Ken Moum]

Ken,

Leo Diegel's style is not that much different from Bobby Locke's, and he was a great putter.

In the mid 60's Snead and Hogan were already approaching their mid 50's and well past their prime.

As to Tommy Armour, he only had one eye and was already in his 70's by the mid 60's.

The yips and related putting problems weren't much of a factor with those in their prime

I was only referring to the amount of talk about the yips in the 60s.  I'm 65 and don't have any personal experience before that.

FWIW, Armour got run off the Tour by the yips in the 30s.

As far as the yips being something older golfers are likely to suffer, they still are.

There were, in my experience, plenty of young golfers who got them as well.  But without the option of long putters most of them never went anywhere.

You may well be right about fast greens making it worse, but the idea that people weren't talking about the yips among golfers in their prime until recently is just wrong.

K

[noonan]

Pat,

Although I'll continue to argue against the banning of the long/belly putters...

After nearly 18 years, I've actually stopped using the long putter. I switched last month to a 35" Heavy Putter "Mid-Heavy" Answer style model and I use it with the claw grip that Mickelson's been using. Thanks to my friendship with the head of Callaway, I've got a custom 35" Odyssey prototype heavier model putter coming this week to try as well. 

Throughout my extended time with the long wand, I was always a pretty consistent putter.  I had my normal good/decent days, a fair amount of great rounds and very few poor rounds.  Even with the consistency with the long model, I always thought that if I could count on a solid stroke, the short putter allowed for better feel and line on tougher, sloping greens.  

My breaking point with the Long Putter came after playing in a Stag Day at Fieldstone (Del) last month. I just had a lousy day with my long putter.  The next day, I picked up the short Heavy model I had laying around, tried it with the claw grip and felt really comfortable. I spent a few days practicing, then brought it out to the course for a couple of rounds with some nice success.  It's been in the bag since.  My stroke has felt solid with no nervous issues and I've been holing the putts I should make as well as making more of the medium range putts.

I've seen the writing on the wall from the governing bodies regarding the anchoring method and I'd be shocked if a change isn't coming.  I will say that I think this issue has been pushed primarily from the R & A and the USGA has been late to the party.  From discussions I've had, I don't think this was on the USGA's radar a few years ago.  It'll be interesting to see that language that they come up with to enforce the ruling. It'll also be interesting to see the time period and playing level of enforcement.  I'll never agree that the anchoring method should be outlawed for the average golfer.  Maybe they'll do what they did with the goofy "groove" rule and stagger the time periods again.  They really bifurcated the rules already with that issue but just didn't call it what it was.

We'll see....

I went to the claw this season. I made so many putts easily it was like cheating. My lag putting was even great - not good - great

The putter blade stays square with the claw grip

I do not know why anyone would want a long putter if they tried the claw

It took no time to become proficient at the claw either

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