[Patrick_Mucci]

From about 100 + yards out


From the tee


From the tee


From about 30 yards out


The crescent bunker back left of the green


The crescent bunker back left of the green


The crescent bunker back right of the green


The back left bunker on the right and the back right bunker on the left.


From the back right of the green, looking toward the tee


Both crescent shaped back bunkers


From the right of the green, looking toward the front left.
The two piles of stone will become convex sand bunkers, like others found at GCGC


From the front right, looking toward # 13.  Stone mound will become convex sand bunker.


Same, except the mounds IN the green are more visible


From the right of the green looking to the left of the green.


From the right of the green, looking at the left-left rear of the green


From the right front, looking toward the 6th green (left of the tree) # 13 right of the tree


From the right of the green, looking at the right rear crescent shaped bunker


Same


The awesome front bunker


Front bunker, fairway left, green right


Front bunker from in front, looking toward # 13


Same, notice depth and steepness of bunker wall


From short of the front bunker with green and # 13 in backround


Front bunker looking toward the front of the 13th tee.

[/quote]

[Patrick_Mucci]

In November, when the project is complete, if the weather holds, I'll take more photos, from a higher elevation, to try to provide a more thorough representation of what's been accomplished.

While the mounds aren't as pronounced as the originals, they are of a height and configuration that can be maintained.
In addition, with today's green speeds they will present a challenge, as they are within the putting surface.

The fronting bunker is spectacular and in keeping with the many deep bunkers which populate GCGC.

The added length will help defend the hole against the modern golfer.

I'm anxious to play the hole next Spring

[Will Lozier]

In November, when the project is complete, if the weather holds, I'll take more photos, from a higher elevation, to try to provide a more thorough representation of what's been accomplished.

While the mounds aren't as pronounced as the originals, they are of a height and configuration that can be maintained.
In addition, with today's green speeds they will present a challenge, as they are within the putting surface.

The fronting bunker is spectacular and in keeping with the many deep bunkers which populate GCGC.

The added length will help defend the hole against the modern golfer.

I'm anxious to play the hole next Spring

Patrick and/or Tom D.,

Any new news on or pics of GCGC's new 12th greensite?!  Look forward to them.

Cheers

[Will Lozier]

Patrick and/or Tom D.,

Any new news on or pics of GCGC's new 12th greensite?!  Look forward to them.

Cheers

Still very curious!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Will,
The weather hasn't been favorable enough, so far this year, to get me to play GCGC.

I'm hoping by late March, early April, that I'll have some nice photos for everyone.

[Steve Lang]

  buried elephants in the green?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve,

The key to "contour" is, can it be reasonably maintained ?

The flanking mounds aren't quite of the severity of the originals, but, the Superintendent assures us that he can maintain them, and in the final analysis, that's all that counts.

I'm hoping to visit GCGC in late March or early April and will have some nice photos upon my return.

[V. Kmetz]

PM,

From a recent aerial I can see the new work on 12 clearly...though it looks like there is room to do so, how often are the NW and SE areas (right and left) of the restored mounds going to be pinned...eg.  do most pins end up in the bathtub created by the restoration or will there be liberal hole location "outside" the restored work?

Also it has been 20 years since I caddied at GCGC (never played) - what is the character of that green pad?  Does it tilt one way or the other, or shoulder off to the sides...or is fairly flat with the mounds now adding the basic contour?

cheers

vk

[Patrick_Mucci]

PM,

From a recent aerial I can see the new work on 12 clearly...though it looks like there is room to do so, how often are the NW and SE areas (right and left) of the restored mounds going to be pinned...eg.  do most pins end up in the bathtub created by the restoration or will there be liberal hole location "outside" the restored work?

VK,

That remains to be seen.

I would imagine that the hole will be almost universally located in the bathtub, although there did seem to be some room for hole locations on the outside, but, I would doubt their use.

Also it has been 20 years since I caddied at GCGC (never played) - what is the character of that green pad? 

From my brief observation it appears that the general character of the green pad has been changed.

Previously, the front left quadrant sloped toward the tee, the very front right toward the back, with the balance fairly flat.
The new green appears to be tilted back to front with falloff at the perimeters.


Does it tilt one way or the other, or shoulder off to the sides...


I haven't seen the sod settle, but, I believe both.

or is fairly flat with the mounds now adding the basic contour?

It didn't seem flat to me, but, my vision isn't the best, especially when it's dark.

cheers

vk

[V. Kmetz]

PM,

Thanks for that response; depending on how the turf settles over the season it does look like there is enough room on the golfer's right (NW, on the way to the 13th tee) to get a pin outside of the restored mounding between the convex and rear bunker.  Rare to be sure, but it would be one helluva look and play for the golfer.

One other question:  Can you give a chronology run-down of how it got to be the other way? 

The more I study our beloved GCA, the more I like Garden City and the higher and higher it rises into my estimation.  I haven't been there in so long - and much less interested in GCA in those years - that it feels foolish to gain this esteem from afar, but yet it grows.

String-pulling juice may have to be squeezed sometime in the next couple of seasons.  I'm just about out of markers, but perhaps...

cheers

vk

[Patrick_Mucci]

PM,

Thanks for that response; depending on how the turf settles over the season it does look like there is enough room on the golfer's right (NW, on the way to the 13th tee) to get a pin outside of the restored mounding between the convex and rear bunker.  Rare to be sure, but it would be one helluva look and play for the golfer.

When I next visit and can walk on the green, I'll take a more thorough look at the dimensions

One other question:  Can you give a chronology run-down of how it got to be the other way? 

I'm told that the original green was altered due to a combination of overwatering, vandalism and perhaps incompetence, merging with RTJ's popularity in the 60's.

The more I study our beloved GCA, the more I like Garden City and the higher and higher it rises into my estimation.  I haven't been there in so long - and much less interested in GCA in those years - that it feels foolish to gain this esteem from afar, but yet it grows.

String-pulling juice may have to be squeezed sometime in the next couple of seasons.  I'm just about out of markers, but perhaps...

Let's see how the weather is in April

[Tom_Doak]

There is no room for hole locations on the outside of the mounds.  There never was, as far as I could tell from the old aerial photos ... the toe of slope of the mounds is very close to the edge of the putting surface.

Mr. Jones built the previous green in 1960, I believe, but I don't know the process of how it came to be changed.

[Patrick_Mucci]

There is no room for hole locations on the outside of the mounds.  There never was, as far as I could tell from the old aerial photos ... the toe of slope of the mounds is very close to the edge of the putting surface.

Mr. Jones built the previous green in 1960, I believe, but I don't know the process of how it came to be changed.

Tom,

I have a letter that Mel Lucas sent to me detailing why the green fell out of favor and was redesigned.

In that letter he also informed me that holes 6 and 7 shared one massive fairway.

I'll try to find the letter and send you a copy.

[V. Kmetz]

TD

Ahhh I see...so it must be pinned in the rough "center oval" of the restored mounding.  Is one of the properties of the convex bunkers that they essential "brake" a golf ball that glances them, or do they repel it hard...or do they at all "gather" a ball nearly dead (wouldn't think so)

PM and TD

Depending on the green speeds (first season and beyond), I think the player is going to have a lot of fun when he is hasn't been straight off the tee.  I like that demand once in a while on a one-shot hole...that the target landing area is straight at the hole, unlike say the Redan or Biarritz when a different distance and/or side of the target is the true target landing spot.  It's nice to have a mix of such demands. Even a player in the front bunker, who was at a minimum, "straight," is going to have it potentially easier, than a player on a left or right fringe, with a putter in his hand.  What a great way to re-invest a hole with strategic interest.

If that info re: M. Lucas is processed, it would be interesting to hear its recap, although PM's appraisal seems to encompass the sense of it.

PM

See my IM

cheers

vk

[Will Lozier]

PM,

From a recent aerial I can see the new work on 12 clearly...though it looks like there is room to do so, how often are the NW and SE areas (right and left) of the restored mounds going to be pinned...eg.  do most pins end up in the bathtub created by the restoration or will there be liberal hole location "outside" the restored work?

Also it has been 20 years since I caddied at GCGC (never played) - what is the character of that green pad?  Does it tilt one way or the other, or shoulder off to the sides...or is fairly flat with the mounds now adding the basic contour?

cheers

vk

VK,

Any way to post said aerial?  Or provide a link? 

Cheers

[V. Kmetz]

Will,

It's Google Earth (Garden City, NY... 12th hole is at the top NNW portion of the property)...but with a bit of a trick...as the primary image you should receive from GEarth is from 6-17-10, which is of course before the restoration...

Go to "view" menu, Historical Imagery, and move the Dateline cursor all the way to the right (most modern) and imagery from Nov 2012 should be available...no matter whether you zoom way in or not, the contours and restoration work are plainly visible.  Toggle the Dateline cursor backwards and you will see older images of the site.

Of course I put it here for you:



And here is a rough overlay from old to Restored




This prospects to be one wonderful piece of work; just think if Garden City had a high TV profile like ANGC...and instead of this one par 3 on a classic much beloved course it was bringing back the 7th green, or the 9th green or ANGC decided to restore the old 16th hole for the 100th Masters or some such...the world would be agog.  the theme of Pat's thread title and original post seem apt, even to this armchair observer.

cheers

vk

[V. Kmetz]

make that..."Very crude" on the older overlay...I missed the green area by 15-20%...it's so massive by comparison to the replaced presentation

cheers

vk

[Mark McKeever]

Is anyone ever going to post some half decent pictures of this restoration?!?!!?

MM

[Tony Ristola]

Is anyone ever going to post some half decent pictures of this restoration?!?!!?

MM

Bumping for photos.

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