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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
"True Links": Did they miss one?
« on: October 14, 2012, 03:06:47 PM »
I've had a copy of "True Links" on my book shelf for over a year and every now and again I browse through it. Sometimes I may think of a lesser known links course and wonder if they included it. The other day I thought of one, and guess what, it's not in the book. I haven't played the course, but I did see it many years ago, and can remember it quite vividly. I had a look at the club's website which contains some pictures, and it sure looks like a links to me. I'm pretty sure at least one person on this DG has played it.

Clue No. 1: It's in Europe.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2012, 03:16:31 PM »
Domburgsche GC in Holland?

Or Royal Ostend in Belgium.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 03:25:59 PM by Sven Nilsen »
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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2012, 03:29:04 PM »
Domburgsche GC in Holland?

Sven,

All that I've seen of Holland is Schipol Airport, so it's not the one I'm thinking of.

Just checked and Domburgsche is included in the book.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2012, 03:41:18 PM »
Did they include Fano? Is it even a links?.... Seem to remember they'd missed one or two in Ireland as well... Spanish Point probably...

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2012, 03:41:24 PM »
Noordwijkse, Kenemmer, Royal Hague, Royal le Zoute?, Hardelot, Le Touquet?

Off hand don't know anymore true links courses that pop into my head. Don't think Germany has anymore or France. Domburgsche doesn't count for me as it's not 18 holes. Never even bothered to go myself and it's only an hour plus away. Maybe someday.

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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2012, 03:54:00 PM »
Did they include Fano? Is it even a links?.... Seem to remember they'd missed one or two in Ireland as well... Spanish Point probably...

Bingo!!! Spanish Point in Clare.

http://www.spanishpointgolfing.com/

Yes, Fano is included.

I know I should find out myself, but do you know what was the other Irish one?

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2012, 03:54:56 PM »
What about Bundersland in Germany... Think that's there though... Plus there's Falsterbo and Llujbergen (?) in Sweden...  

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2012, 04:02:29 PM »
Noordwijkse, Kenemmer, Royal Hague, Royal le Zoute?, Hardelot, Le Touquet?

Off hand don't know anymore true links courses that pop into my head. Don't think Germany has anymore or France. Domburgsche doesn't count for me as it's not 18 holes. Never even bothered to go myself and it's only an hour plus away. Maybe someday.



Here are the 14 links courses listed in the book for Continental Europe:

Budersand (Ger.)
Domburgsche (Ned.)
Falsterbo (Swe.)
Fano (Den.)
Granville (Fra.)
Helsingborg (Swe.)
Kennemer (Ned.)
Ljunghusen (Swe.)
Lofoten (Nor.)
Nordwijke (Ned.)
Norderney (Ger)
North Sea (Ger.)
Royal Hague (Ned.)
Royal Ostend (Bel.)

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2012, 04:41:11 PM »
I was thinking way too much us and them...Europe vs UK and Ireland. I'm calling trick question on that one.

Didn't even know about the one in Germany and haven't played the two French ones I was told were links courses either. Guess they are not as they are not on the list.

I think I'm a little confused as to why they are not calling Le Zoute a links course. It fits the criteria, sand based ground and existing in the dunes between the sea and the fertile ground. Almost no trees although there are trees surrounding the course.

Could it be purely because there are houses between it and the sea? There are a lot of links courses much further from the sea.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2012, 04:50:43 PM »
Was just excited to go play that little course in Germany thinking yeah it must be close up on the North Sea....8 hours driving from here. Guess that's not going to happen soon, it's almost in Denmark. Donal it might be closer to you....rhetorical, don't answer that. it's 11 hours for you but almost our halfway point. Shall we meet there for a game?
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2012, 04:54:49 PM »
Budersand is super. Really remarkable that it was Stephan Hansen's first course. Strongly recommended
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
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Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2012, 05:20:43 PM »
I was thinking way too much us and them...Europe vs UK and Ireland. I'm calling trick question on that one.

Didn't even know about the one in Germany and haven't played the two French ones I was told were links courses either. Guess they are not as they are not on the list.

I think I'm a little confused as to why they are not calling Le Zoute a links course. It fits the criteria, sand based ground and existing in the dunes between the sea and the fertile ground. Almost no trees although there are trees surrounding the course.

Could it be purely because there are houses between it and the sea? There are a lot of links courses much further from the sea.


David,

The reasoning for excluding some courses from their list is a bit bizarre at times. Here's what they wrote about Le Zoute:

"Although the course began as a links, its first stretch is now surrounded by opulent houses with lush green lawns and towering trees. The look and feel of open linksland don't begin until the 8th hole and don't last long enough to merit a berth on our list."

Maybe the houses at Lytham & St. Anne's are not opulent enough. :D

I was thinking if we have BUDA XI in Holland, I could drive down and play Fano, Budersand and North Sea on the way (of course not missing out on the Swedish links also). An 11 hour drive across Sweden, Denmark and Germany; hmm what's that on Doak's scale? An 8 perhaps?

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2012, 05:34:25 PM »
I was thinking way too much us and them...Europe vs UK and Ireland. I'm calling trick question on that one.

Didn't even know about the one in Germany and haven't played the two French ones I was told were links courses either. Guess they are not as they are not on the list.

I think I'm a little confused as to why they are not calling Le Zoute a links course. It fits the criteria, sand based ground and existing in the dunes between the sea and the fertile ground. Almost no trees although there are trees surrounding the course.

Could it be purely because there are houses between it and the sea? There are a lot of links courses much further from the sea.


David,

The reasoning for excluding some courses from their list is a bit bizarre at times. Here's what they wrote about Le Zoute:

"Although the course began as a links, its first stretch is now surrounded by opulent houses with lush green lawns and towering trees. The look and feel of open linksland don't begin until the 8th hole and don't last long enough to merit a berth on our list."

Maybe the houses at Lytham & St. Anne's are not opulent enough. :D

I was thinking if we have BUDA XI in Holland, I could drive down and play Fano, Budersand and North Sea on the way (of course not missing out on the Swedish links also). An 11 hour drive across Sweden, Denmark and Germany; hmm what's that on Doak's scale? An 8 perhaps?

That's some good planning, there's some great courses in Southern Sweden I've not played yet. Well, I'm working on it, I will know the answers mid November. Fingers crossed.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2012, 06:56:15 PM »
What about Flommens GK in Sweden? It's on the very same ground as Falsterbo.

Urlich

Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2012, 11:30:44 PM »
Royal Zoute is certainly not a links. Only a handful of holes feel at all linksy and the turf is lush and the holes framed by trees for about half the time. Great land though and a wonderful course.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 10:33:27 AM »
I think Zoute is a links or it certainly was a links.

Cabourg has 8 links/linksy holes.

Chiberta is missing.

As usual, GCA is better than books like this in getting it right.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 10:35:27 AM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 10:41:31 AM »
"They" missed more than one."Their" definition is too limiting to include many a great core principle golfing experience.

 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 11:24:19 AM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 01:29:14 PM »
I recently received this book as a present from a friend and one of our best travelled members of this discussion board. When I had previously perused on the shelf at the local bookshop I had dismissed it as a coffee book effort with all the usual suspects listed but having had the chance to start reading it properly, its clearly a lot more than that. A "definitive" list of links courses is always going to have grey areas and the authors make a fair and enjoyable attempt at justifying their inclusions and ommissions. The photography is also very good and as a reference guide its got to be an excellent starting point I would have thought.

So far I've only really started through the Scottish section and even then there are a few that are included that I suspect wouldn't get the nod from Robert Price and a few that aren't in there that probably should.

Niall

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 01:35:07 PM »
Did they include Fano? Is it even a links?.... Seem to remember they'd missed one or two in Ireland as well... Spanish Point probably...

Bingo!!! Spanish Point in Clare.

http://www.spanishpointgolfing.com/

Yes, Fano is included.

I know I should find out myself, but do you know what was the other Irish one?

Is Spanish Point where the Armada survivors swam ashore?

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 03:32:53 PM »
Did they include Fano? Is it even a links?.... Seem to remember they'd missed one or two in Ireland as well... Spanish Point probably...

Bingo!!! Spanish Point in Clare.

http://www.spanishpointgolfing.com/

Yes, Fano is included.

I know I should find out myself, but do you know what was the other Irish one?

Is Spanish Point where the Armada survivors swam ashore?

Yes, that's correct. They were later executed.

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2012, 03:19:01 AM »
I think that about 12 of Ballycastle's 18 holes are on links land.
I haven't played it, but I believe Buncrana GC in Donegal is also a links.
What about North Berwick East Links; when it has links in the title in the UK, isn't it a links?  ;)

None of the above are listed in the book.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2012, 03:34:34 AM »
Hi Donal,

don't know about the first two but The Glen (NB east links) is not really a links course though great fun to play and a nice contrast to the town's other course.

Jon

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2012, 07:46:01 AM »
If you are looking to decide what is or isn't a links in Scotland then you really can't go by Robert Price as the final word. His book, Scotland's Golf Courses, is a classic.

Niall

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2018, 06:15:46 PM »
I was watching the cycling Tour of the Basque Country this evening and they showed a very short clip of a course just to the east of the town of Zarautz / Zarauz. The two fairways shown were very undulating an it looked rather nice. I've just checked online and the course is called Real Golf Club de Zarauz, which dates from 1916. Although short and only 9 holes, it looks like a nice little links course. The setting is gorgeous; the whole of the Basque country looks stunning!


http://www.golfzarauz.com/es/home


Click on Golf -> Hoyos -> Ver Hoyos


I did a search on the DG, but the course was only mentioned once previously by our Spanish golf historian Alfonso Erhardt.




Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "True Links": Did they miss one?
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2018, 06:30:53 PM »
Perhaps they should put Ballycastle in vol 2. and delete Portstewart Riverside. Riverside has perhaps the first 2 and last 2 holes that could be considered linksy.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne