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Paul Nash

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Golf Monthly Top 100
« on: October 03, 2012, 04:19:11 PM »
This has been out a few days and have not seen any comments, so here is the link. There is also a Next 100 - home to Beau Desert, whereas The Belfry is in the main list! Let the fir fly ;D. Lytham - 7th best in GB&I?? Discuss

Top 100
http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/courses/tophundred/530622/top-100-uk-and-ireland-golf-courses-2012.html
Next 100
http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/courses/tophundred/530597/the-next-best-100-golf-courses-in-the-uk-and-ireland-2012.html

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2012, 04:42:59 PM »
Brave to have Sunningdale New above the Old course.
Cave Nil Vino

Greg Taylor

Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 04:44:11 PM »
Cruden Bay # 89, and Royal Aberdeen # 19... not going to take the bait... moving on as we speak...!

 ???

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 04:52:57 PM »
I have never really thought that Waterville deserves its high ratings.  I just don't get it.  Granted it is about ten years since I have played there but I didn't think it played like a links course nor was the design compelling.
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 04:58:59 PM »
The Next 100 is worthless.  Slaley Hall Hunting is dreadful.  It's the second best course at Slaley Hall and far inferior to Scott MacPherson's Close House Colt.  It's also inferior to Northumberland and Tyneside in the same county.

Puzzled to see Ladybank in the main 100 but Elie, Crail and Lundin in the next 100.

Dornoch is too low at 9.

At least they got No. 1 right.
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2012, 05:24:59 PM »
A list that just isn't quite as good as the Golf World one... Last time they published this the magazine had some great accompanying features though... For anyone who has a paper copy, have they some good reading material this time too?

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2012, 05:31:28 PM »
It needs a better system to rate courses, some peoples 3 stars is anothers 5's......it needs better fixed critera to base a points system on but I suppose nobody could agree the right critera and certainly not many on here would agree with mine. Saunton West I like but it aint number 57. I think Golf World are still the most accurate too.
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Jud_T

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2012, 05:54:00 PM »
Waterville over Ballybunion?! The European Club over Lahinch?!! Old Head over Prestswick?!!! Not just bad, utterly ridiculous. 
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

David Davis

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2012, 02:10:34 AM »
Is this list based on one person's opinion by chance? That of the editor I'm guessing....maybe it's all a media ploy to get lots of attention.
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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 02:54:25 AM »
Birkdale No. 5 and aheadof Lytham  :-\

Rosapenna (SH) ahead of Silloth and no Rosapenna (OTM) in top 200?   :o
Lahinch at No. 23  ???  ???  ???

Sean_A

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 03:46:26 AM »
Excepting the usual nonsense of not giving Pennard, Beau Desert and Kington their just rewards, there are some strange rankings going on. 

I like Harlech, but #46 ahead of Deal?  Something has gone wrong.

Rye at #61? 

Addington not making top 100 is daft same for Little Aston.

Perhaps the biggest mess up of all is Enniscrone not being top 100 when it should be top 40.

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Robert Thompson

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2012, 10:29:03 AM »
Enniscrone not in the Top 100? Man, I loved Aberdovey, but ahead of Enniscrone? That's crazy.
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Tim Leahy

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 01:38:55 PM »
It looks like all of the top ten have hosted British Opens except Royal County Down. As an American I have not seen much of RCD on tv and would love to see it in action. Any chance it hosts a Ryder Cup or Euro championship that gets broadcast to the US?
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Brian_Ewen

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2012, 02:17:54 PM »
A list that just isn't quite as good as the Golf World one...

You mean like ranking Trump Aberdeen, the 8th best course in the UK ..... before it had even opened ?

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 03:37:41 PM »
A list that just isn't quite as good as the Golf World one...

You mean like ranking Trump Aberdeen, the 8th best course in the UK ..... before it had even opened ?

quite
Adam Lawrence

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Ivan Morris

Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2012, 03:46:53 PM »
Ranking golf courses is a bunch of hooey! Nobody should take them too seriously. Nevertheless I'm chuffed to have played 47 in that Golf Monthly top 100 list. Personally, I RATE (not rank) Doonbeg and Waterville the equals of Ballybee and Lahinch and am pleased to note that somebody else seems to be tending to agree. 

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2012, 03:54:23 PM »
While I may wonder about the reasoning behind this or any other list it's the sort of list we all like to compile on a boring train journey or when we wake in the night and can't get back to sleep.

Funnily enough, I've made a number of lists of this kind in various books in which I've been involved. It's jolly hard, whether it's an eclectic 18 holes in Cheshire or a top 50 in the UK trying not to ape other lists and introduce some thought-provoking novelty.

And then you have to think of your readers. All except GCA cognoscenti are going to be a bit surprised to see a course which has hosted no fewer than four Ryder Cup matches (each of them very exciting) being excluded (Belfry). Until very recently no un-introduced visitors could play Rye or Swinley Forest. Of what relevance were they to such lists?

When you play golf with other members of your own club there are so many different criteria by which golf courses are judged. Some go on golfing holidays in Florida, Thailand, the Algarve and so on. For them golf is a different kind of experience. Others seek out Colt courses across Europe or Fowler courses from Eastward Ho! and Pebble Beach to Beau Desert and Bull Bay. A Scottish friend hopes to play all the Braid courses, while another friend has recently joined RCP so that he can engineer playing at all the Royal courses round the world.... Royal Melbourne may be great but I am less convinced about Royal Ostend.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2012, 03:54:19 AM »
A list that just isn't quite as good as the Golf World one...

You mean like ranking Trump Aberdeen, the 8th best course in the UK ..... before it had even opened ?

The one gigantic mistake that almost undid all the positioning they'd made as the "premier GB&I list" in the previous 25 years... That was a silly decision

Ben Jarvis

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2012, 04:02:24 AM »
Renaissance Club at #86? I know GB&I is full of wonderful golf courses, but surely there aren't 85 better courses!
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Niall C

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2012, 07:28:02 AM »
Ranking golf courses is a bunch of hooey! Nobody should take them too seriously. Nevertheless I'm chuffed to have played 47 in that Golf Monthly top 100 list. Personally, I RATE (not rank) Doonbeg and Waterville the equals of Ballybee and Lahinch and am pleased to note that somebody else seems to be tending to agree. 

Ivan

You may think its a lot of hooey but I know one poster on GCA who's business is affected by where his course is in the rankings. BTW, can anyone tell me where Rothes is in the list ?

Niall

Martin Toal

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2012, 12:43:28 PM »
It looks like all of the top ten have hosted British Opens except Royal County Down. As an American I have not seen much of RCD on tv and would love to see it in action. Any chance it hosts a Ryder Cup or Euro championship that gets broadcast to the US?

No chance of a Ryder Cup. It hosted the 2007 Walker Cup in which Rory, Dustin Johnson, Webb Simpson, Kyle Stanley and Rickie Flower played and a number of British Senior Opens (2000-2002 or thereabouts.

Ivan Morris

Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2012, 12:59:17 PM »
If it could be explained what subtlety can make one course 86th on the list and another 87th, I'd be very interested in the answer. I can live with a top-20 but that should be as far as any of these lists go. 21 upwards is where the hooey begins and the higher the ranking the more hooey is involved. BTW, Golf Monthly - I'd argue that The Old Course isn't even the best course at St. Andrew's and RCD has the 'best first nine in golf' but its second nine is nothing special.


Martin Toal

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2012, 01:04:38 PM »
RCD has the 'best first nine in golf' but its second nine is nothing special.



Interesting. I love RCD and my 2 favourite holes are both on the back 9 - 13th and 15th.

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2012, 01:15:28 PM »
Ivan - Rating golf courses is an opinion and its hard to argue with someones opinion, taking that further, ratings are often a collation of opinions, so as the ratings are less skewed, probably if you asked everybody and gave everyone the same criteria and they were fair and unbiased it would work. Generally raters are out of the same bracket and like the same sort of thing, if you dont you are unlikely to get the raters job in the first place. I look at some golf courses and just dont get it in the same way others do, but often my 10 howlers are not someone elses. My personal opinion is that new golf courses get a bad rap, by and large ALL my golf courses are extremeley popular and busy and profitable, why are my golf courses not in these ratings when the one next door is and almost empty? How should we measure golf courses really, I looked at the GM criteria and I dont agree with the criteria...why should the way the pro shop greet you influence the position a golf course is rated....some of these things should be unbiasedly detached IMO but here is the magazine saying THIS GETS YOU POINTS... fancy car parks are hooey IMO but I think a course should lose points if its under 6500 yards and others will say hooey to that too...but if you look at ratings at the top 20 or 30..... you dont find many sub 6500 and in fact the bar is higher, so I think length does play a part. The Belfry gets a bad rap on here but it deserves better, there is quite a bit of fun out there and whilst its a bit clinical it does not have too many faults...but its an opinion. Now on to your question.... raters give courses points and they get added up and divided by the number of scorers, so 86th has more points than 87.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
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Sean_A

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Re: Golf Monthly Top 100
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2012, 05:59:38 AM »
Unless I missed it, where is Queenwood?  At least one GCAer whose I opinion I trust rates this place very highly.

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