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Andrew Lewis

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2012, 04:52:00 PM »
I'm in for either the 20th or 21st, with a preference for the 20th

Howard Riefs

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2012, 10:02:52 PM »
Any update?
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2012, 10:16:19 PM »
Let me know if you have a preference for Sat. or Sun.  Right now the weather looks pretty good for both days, but better on Sunday.  The list so far:

Molnar
Riefs
Lewis
Nilsen

If anyone else wants to join in let me know.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Howard Riefs

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2012, 08:53:49 AM »
My preference is for Saturday. Can't play on Sunday.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Mark Smolens

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2012, 11:44:06 AM »
Can't play Saturday (woo hoo, tailgate in west lot for NU vs. UNL -- if you're going to be in the hood stop by for a cold one!). Interested in Sunday. . . I may have some more guys interested in a later tee time.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 01:02:46 PM by Mark Smolens »

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley 10/21
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2012, 12:27:26 PM »
Sunday, late morning tee times (I'll update with time later today).

Please confirm.

Updated list:

Molnar
Seitz
Lewis
Smolens
Riefs
Nilsen
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 04:06:20 PM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2012, 03:13:44 PM »
We have the 12:13 and 12:19 tee times.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Howard Riefs

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2012, 04:03:38 PM »
I can now play Sunday if there's room. 
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Mark Smolens

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2012, 04:22:08 PM »
Looks like the guys who were interested in joining us made other plans, so it's just me (plenty of room Howard)

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2012, 04:46:50 PM »
Howard, you're in.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Howard Riefs

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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2012, 04:07:13 PM »
We're at 6 total with two spots open.  If anyone wants to join in last minute, shoot me a PM.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Howard Riefs

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2012, 02:42:59 PM »
A fun time was had Sunday in southern Wisconsin at Spring Valley, a Langford/Moreau design that opened in 1926. The course was in good shape for the season, the weather ideal and the company even better. Not bad for a $15 green fee.

We played as a five-some and got around in less than four hours. The group had it all: “A lefty (me), a guy playing with hickories (Andrew), and guy with a pink ball* (Mark),” as Sven told another golfer with whom we played the last two holes.  (* Truth be told, Mark did alternate with a yellow ball, too.)

The round had a few highlights, including Bill’s back-to-back birdies, the sweet sound of Andrew’s hickories and Sven discovering a new tee-box that the owner built to stretch the 8th hole into a par 5.

For me, though, the play of the day had to be the unexpected excitement of the 30 yard walk-back from #8 green to #9 tee. Four of us left our bags off the green. Mark gave his push cart a gentile roll toward the fairway. The fairway cants heavy from right to left and there’s a good 12-foot fall off on the far side of the fairway. Yes, gravity soon took hold. Would the cart stop? Surely it would. Well, maybe. Uh oh. Mark took off with abandon. The cart was no match. Heck, he could have caught Usain Bolt.

A few photos from the day.


#3, 134 yards



Behold, the pink ball



#4, 556 yards

Seitz goes pinseeking





#6, 411 yards

View from left of green, from #7 teebox



#7, 181 yards

Andrew


Sven in the junk. (Full disclosure: I was there, too.)



#12, 501 yards

The coast is clear. New definition of quirk: Plumbing materials on a course



#13, 382 yards




#14, 282 yards, par 4

Double hole markers in case one overlooked the garbage receptacle that doubles as a marker; unfortunately, the phone died before I could take a photo of the headstone of a dearly departed horse buried under the teebox.  Really.


« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 03:03:51 PM by Howard Riefs »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Jud_T

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2012, 03:00:05 PM »
Thanks for the pix.  Sorry I missed it.  My new favorite public track in the Chicagoland area (even if is in Wisconsin...).  I was stuck in a marathon Master French Sauce cooking class.  Maybe I can cater the next outing...  I'm convinced that if Spring Valley were bunkered up and in top private club condition that people on here would have to stop in North Chicago for a new pair of Jockey shorts on the way home to post their undying love for the place.  Only issue with the low budget maintenance is you get some pretty funky lies to chip off of.  But it's hard to complain too vociferously when the all-day rate is $18...  
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mark Smolens

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2012, 04:50:12 PM »
Jud, fall rate is $15  :). Seriously fifteen dollars -- walked out of the pro shop feeling like I was playing for free. Probably used more in gas driving up from Willow Springs -- tho the Acura had a lot more gas in it after stopping at Andrew's taco joint in Antioch.

Nice pix Howard. Fun day.

Dan Moore

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2012, 06:11:03 PM »
And I always thought Smolens balls were purple.  Perhaps the pink was a consequence of the Saturday fade. 

Here are some more photos in case anyone is wondering why there is love for a $15 course.

The 215 yard par 3 5th.



15th Green


The 18th
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Mark Smolens

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2012, 12:58:53 PM »
Ouch  >:( :'( but unfortunately apt. Hard to deal with expectations when you're a Northwestern fan -- life was much simpler when we got drubbed by everyone.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2012, 01:39:44 PM »
Had a blast playing on Sunday, and glad to finally experience the second half of the course, which may contain the majority of my favorite holes.  The greens on 11, 15 and 17 (6 is no slouch either) are worth seeing by themselves, and the 18th is a tremendously fun hole to close out a round with. 

One of the conversations that kept popping up during the day was what the course would be like under "normal" conditions.  The addition of sand to the bunker hollows would make the tee to green navigation more of a challenge, but might make some of the recoveries around the green a bit easier.  One thing that should not change much is the speed of the greens.  There were several holes where another half stick on the stimp would have made the day's pin unplayable.  For anyone that loves classic green contours that are presented at pretty close to the optimal speed, Spring Valley would be a treat.

As we learned, the owner built a green and tee in the area beyond the 7th green and 8th tee.  Wondering if anyone has played the two holes as a 4 and 5 as opposed to the 3 and 4 from the original course.  At dinner, we thought it would be pretty fun to play both options (hitting a tee shot on 7 to the par 3 green and then hitting a drive from the same tee to play the added green.  For 8 you would tee off from the back tee to play it as a longer hole before playing from the traditional tee and the standard short par 4 length).

The thought of getting in two extra holes for that $15 might seal the deal as to the best bargain in golf.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Dan Moore

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2012, 05:21:22 PM »
Sorry Mark.  Nebraska did the same to Wisconsin so I can feel your pain.  At least we will have a shot at redemption in the Big Ten Playoff game provided UN wins your division whatever its called.  A legendary lack of leadership in that naming decision. 

I really enjoy playing Spring Valley because of how well the course tests all aspects of your game.  For a par 70 of 6,350 yards there are 5 par 4's over 400 yards and a par 3's that run the gamut at 215, 185, 165, 155 and 135 all with excellent greens.

I've studied the original L/M drawing of the course (actually an irrigation map now hanging in the clubhouse) that shows sand in all the original bunkers.  I tend to agree the course doesn't need sand especially around the greens where the absence of sand increases options around the classic, raised Langford Moreau greens.  I do think sand in the fairway bunkers would add a degree of penalty that would be beneficial.

The only significant changes from the original course as built by Langford and Moreau are:
 
#1 was originally a short 460 yard par 5 with the tee back another 20-25 yards.  I think today it probably plays better today as a long par 4.

#2 was originally a 400 yard par 4 played from the location of the current women's tee.  I've played it from there which eliminates the long walk back to the new tee.  While not a bad par 5 and I think its a better hole as a par 4 which has a challenging 2nd shot to a small green. 

#4  the pond in front of the green was added probably for drainage.  The pond pretty much mandates a blind lay-up with a mid-iron; there would be many more choices without the pond influencing the 2nd shot.  Regardless a great green location and a really good par 5.

#9 new tee added to lengthen hole. 

#14 trees added to right take away option to play far to the right.  A short driveable par 4 at 285 originally featured a huge green of 14,00 square feet.  This is a green that would benefit from sand in the bunkers and a very narrow opening in front.  I enjoy this hole when playing a match beacause I always feel a 4 is a bogey.  I wish I had access to the original drawing of 14 to illustrate the original shape and strtegy of the hole.  Maybe I will dig it out later if anyone is interested.

#16 the pond was added to the left.  The pond is very awkward and necessitates a lay-up or a play up the right side over or to the right of the mounds.
 
I believe the green in the distance behind 7 was intended soley as a practice green.  On #8 a tee that is no longer used was added in an attempt to make the hole more challenging.  Played from the original tee #8 at 345 yards is by far the easiest and least interesting hole on the course.  I suspect they don't use it for safety reasons but the added distance bringing the hill back into play and would greatly enhance the hole. 

I think the one thing the current owners could do at minimal cost to greatly improve the course would be to recapture the shrunken greens.  You can see what I mean in my photo of #18.  They do a really good job of maintaing the proper speed especially in the Fall and this would add a number of really great pin locations.  There are many greens, notably #1, #2, #3, #8, #9,#10, #11, #14, #15 and #18 that would benefit greatly from taking the greens back to their original sizes.  Originally 14 green was a 14,000 sq feet which means they would have to take it out about 15 yards on all sides which would add some hairy undulations and interesting pin locations on very short par 4. 

Another simple fix to one of the weaker holes would be to add a new tee back in the woods on #13 which could add 30-40 yards to the 390 yard hole and where bunker on the left would be in play and with the hill back in the landing zone the surface of the green would be blind from less than about 165 yards. 

And don't get me started on the trees.  Just look at the photo of 18 and think about what that will look like in 20 years when those baby trees up the left side grow up. 

"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Howard Riefs

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2012, 05:38:47 PM »

The only significant changes from the original course as built by Langford and Moreau are:
 

Thanks for the insight on the course changes. What about the back 'island-like' tee on #6?

"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Dan Moore

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2012, 06:00:07 PM »
Howard, the island tee was an original feature and with its great green I think 6 is the best hole on the front 9. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Howard Riefs

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2012, 06:38:02 PM »
Howard, the island tee was an original feature and with its great green I think 6 is the best hole on the front 9. 

Interesting. Thanks, Dan. Agree that it's a great hole.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2012, 06:41:26 PM »
Dan:

I'd be interested in seeing the original layout of 14.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jud_T

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2012, 08:20:09 PM »
Dan,

I'd also love to see the original 14 green.  Re #7 my gut feeling is that you're right Dan.  The hole works perfectly as is IMO.  I can't imagine another green.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 3rd Annual Chicago/Southern Wisconsin Fall Outing - Spring Valley
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2012, 08:48:07 PM »
Dan and Jud:

The suggestion from the owner wasn't that the new green was meant to replace the existing 7th hole, and it probably was meant just to be a practice green (but one that is playable from the 7th tee).  I think they just had a sliver of land left over after the housing went up south of the course and he decided to build a green and a tee.   

The fact that you could play the course and not realize that they even exist says something about how unobtrusive they are.

He did note that he had added a back tee on 15 with the thought of making the hole play as a par 5.  One question I had after playing the hole had to do with the placement of the fairway bunker/hollow.  It is at a distance off of the tee such that I can't imagine it comes into play for anyone but the longest of hitters, which means that it was most likely completely unreachable back when the course was built.  So what purpose did it serve?  The only though I had was that if a player was taking the shorter line to the inside of the dogleg, they might face a second shot over the bunker (which lies around 100 yards short of the green).
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross