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Ran Morrissett

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Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« on: September 26, 2012, 11:04:46 AM »
Tommy and I are close to the same age (53 and 49 years old respectively). Though growing up on opposite coasts, three things hold true for both of us. First, The World Atlas of Golf played a huge role in hooking us on the subject of golf course architecture (that includes both the text AND the illustrations as Tommy points out). Second, there was next to no discussion of golf course architecture for our generation from 1976 (when the WAOG was published) to 1998. And third, the internet changed all that.

In the Emperor Tommy Naccarato, you have the single person who has most used technology to develop and foster the discussion of golf course architecture. How architecture now gets viewed and debated has forever changed. And for nearly fifteen years, Tommy has been at the core from which so much healthy debate has ensued.

Yes, an amazing accomplishment but that can overshadow his underlying passion for golf and his mind for architecture. Also, in the various roles and administrative duties that he has undertaken since 1998 first with the advent of Traditional Golf, the fact can easily get lost that he has evolved into quite the writer. To wit, here are some well worded snippets found in his expansive Feature Interview:

In regards to The Old Course, “One needs to develop a relationship with the course, whether its love or hate, and then watch it completely take all rules and throw them out the window. The golf course is spontaneous in its charms and you can’t possibly ever stop learning from it.”

In regards to Max Behr, “I think he was somewhat more of a tyrant on golf, and I suspect that more than a few knew that he was more of a Hun when it came to principles. He was a Golfing Extremist, and that’s probably why I am so fascinated by him, ha!”

In regards to Rustic Canyon and Friar’s Head, “I think it’s important for all of us, if we are true golfers, to have a relationship with a course that brings us to an emotional center….where each hole challenges us….where we look forward to each shot time and time again….and where we feel at home, as I do at both Rustic and Friar’s Head. For me, these are the places where my problems seem to just fade away and I am most at peace.”

In addition, where else can you possibly learn in one sitting about Desmond’s Quail Ranch, Woodland Hills, and The Norconian? Tommy possesses such a vast wealth of information at his finger tips and we are privileged that he is sharing some with us here.


Purposefully, Tommy uses this Feature Interview as a Call to Arms, first for getting used clubs to Brazil in anticipation of the Olympic Course being turned over to the citizens once the games conclude and later for a sympathetic restoration of Lakeside. As ever, passion oozes forth with each word from Tommy when he is excited on a subject like Behr’s Lakeside: “Another course worthy of a sympathetic restoration is Lakeside, but unfortunately that won’t happen. Here we are talking about some of the most brilliant architecture on the planet. The land movement that Maxie created there would make a Fazio blush! We aren’t talking minimalism in any sense, but he did what he needed to do to make it interesting in a way that’s natural looking for the site that was once a Apricot nursery on the side of a river and a lake. You cut down those inane pine trees and open up the very nature of the course, making it less isolated and more open….increase the green sizes back to their original dimensions….get the architectural intent back into the holes; eliminate bunkers….and suddenly, Lakeside would not only be a very fun course to play, but a must see place in the World of Golf!”

Speaking of Behr, Tommy sets the record straight with what has become the most misused term in architecture in recent years, namely the line of charm: The Line of Instinct is the line between you and the golf hole that is broken up by natural lines of hazards, hills, bunkers, creek beds, folds in the land, etc. It’s where the natural and picturesque art of a golf hole lies and to challenge it is risky. The Line of Charm is the safe route to the hole, which takes you away from the natural hazards and leaves breathing room, albeit with a more stringent task of getting on to the green and into the hole.

Anyone who sets up a forum called Max’s Lounge clearly is a Behr disciple. Though Behr’s courses have been horribly trampled, his words remain which provide clear insight into his design beliefs. Tommy provides a neat, distilled version of this ethos when he writes:

Another Behr tenant is Width, that a golf course should have the least amount of boundaries and out of bounds as possible. He characterized golf as a “sport,” while calling baseball, football, tennis, etc., “games,” simply because of the fixed lines and boundaries of the latter. He believed in the Sportsman aspect of golf, no different than hunting, fishing, etc. He was willing to go to the death mat to prove his point, and did so often with more scathing indictments of the rank and file. And he despised the use (or overuse) of sand as a hazard in unnatural places where exposed sand couldn’t naturally occur.

When Tommy was helping with GolfClubAtlas.com, he and I disagreed on only one thing: How to handle malcontents in the Discussion Group. In general, I was mostly of the opinion that the one strike rule applied and that the Discussion Group was always just one or two topics away from quickly snapping back on track. My frustration was that Tommy was as capable of starting a magnificent thread as anyone. Instead though, too often I thought that he tried to guide people’s behavior which is harder than herding cats. For instance, look at how he dissects some of his favorite hazards and holes in questions 13 and 14. That melding of research and observation is found in very few people. I sincerely hope that Tommy doesn’t spend too much time in managing Max’s Lounge as that is time not spent being one of the best voices in the study of golf course architecture. (Tangentially, surely it is a given that Tommy has the 1) best/most warm laugh and 2) the most appropriate moniker in the history of golf course architecture, yes?!)

Though each of the fourteen years that I have known Tommy have been great, I must say how pleasing it is to sense through his Feature Interview how he has evolved. His tribute to Tom MacWood is heartfelt and a wiser and kinder Tommy emerges from the one that I first shook hands with in L.A. in the winter of 1999. Read this paragraph at the end of the Feature Interview and see if you concur:

You see, when I was participating on this and all of the other websites, I had been very caustic at times. I look back at some of my old posts and ask myself how on earth I could have said some of the things I said. I’m not a mean person at all; I’m just driven to see architecture succeed on the grandest of levels and hopefully make some life-long friends while doing it. But it’s easy to understand the dissension, because the internet is strange like that. We talk by writing, but we can’t hear the intonation in each other’s voices and see through each other’s eyes what we might actually be thinking or where it’s coming from. There are many big name and very successful architects, club committeemen, employees of the governing body and even the director of the ASGCA that have taken me to task for this passion and rightfully so. What I think they really don’t understand is that it’s not just my passion for the subject, but my passion for Golf that’s inside of me, and, I think its inside of all of us. Our love and passion for Golf brings us so many things, and hopefully one day most, the understanding and patience with others, thus bringing us to the ultimate goal: life with no out of bounds.

Like the rest of the Feature Interview, that is beautifully expressed by my very good friend. Can we live up to such ideals as expressed by the modern technology pioneer of golf course architecture debate? Hopefully, as who would want to disappoint the Emperor for fear of him saying “Off with your head?!  ;)  ;D

Cheers,

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 11:24:51 AM »
I've corresponded here and there with Tommy but have never met him.  He was a voluble presence here on gca and, like many who have gone before him, the site is worse off for his absence, but I'm sure he's better off.  I read the entire interview and it is a testament to how to engage in a meaningful discussion about the passions of golf and course architecture on the internet.  The key ingredient, of course, is patience.  It's way too easy to vent a paragraph or two on the discussion board and hit send.  There is often a sense of regret about the personal nature of the way one tends to disagree with others' points of view in this forum.  As my old boss used to say, you have to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable.  Many of us hereabouts struggle with that concept.

As for the substance, Tommy is truly a Man in Full.  He's full of it, in spades.  Full of fun, full of energy, full of passion, full of knowledge, full of excitement and full of a love of the craft and the art of golf course architecture.  I'd call him a national treasure, but that would be a load of crap.  But I will announce a goal for 2013: go out to LA for a long weekend and tour the great courses with the Emperor and my golf buddy Brian Doyle-Murray.  Those two would become fast friends, and  I would love to play the new North and the new Wilshire with them.

Cheers, Ran, to an overdue interview with a real gem of a guy.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Rich Goodale

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 11:57:43 AM »
Live long and prosper, Tommy.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

George Pazin

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 12:41:05 PM »
Wonderful read, thanks Ran and Tommy.

Come back, my friend.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 01:12:36 PM »
I really enjoyed Tommy's discussion of his month stay in St Andrews, and how he found it "mystical and entertaining.". I have felt the same spirit each time I have been there; it's almost like "Brigadoon."

Glad to see this interview and Ran's introduction; their shared passion shines through. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 01:14:54 PM »
I miss Tommy.  Although maybe I shouldn't, as he seems to be holding a grudge against me.

Mark McKeever

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 01:33:15 PM »
Great read.  Thanks Ran and Tommy!

redanboy
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 02:00:57 PM »
Haven't read the interview yet, but his presence here is missed. Hopefully he'll find his way back.

Funny aside; was in Messina a little more than a week ago, (Tommy's roots are Calabrian) and the guy who was running the restaurant could have been Tommy's brother.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 02:27:10 PM »
I miss Tommy.  Although maybe I shouldn't, as he seems to be holding a grudge against me.

Uh, I think that's actually Tom Fazio!   ;D

Robert Emmons

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 02:36:15 PM »
Thank You, Ran.

Matt Bosela

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 02:41:49 PM »
Outstanding read!  Thank you Tommy and Ran!

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 03:16:30 PM »
Ran,

It's a fabulous interview.

Tommy is quite unique, a really special, passionate, intelligent, knowledgeable and charming individual whose presence and contributions are sorely missed.

Coincidently, I spoke with Tommy this past weekend and our lengthy conversation ran the gamut from golf and golf course architecture to a variety of non-golf related topics.

Even more coincidently, the last time I was at GCGC one of the staff approached me and asked about him.
Tommy was my guest at GCGC a few years ago and obviously left a favorable impression.

His knowledge is matched only by his passion and I'm thankful to you and GCA.com for introducing us.

Great interview.




RJ_Daley

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 03:17:47 PM »
I'll add my feeling that GCA.com misses Tommy, when Tommy is true to what he wrote herein.  He obviously knows what most of us don't miss, which were episodes of vendetta and ironically the dueling with a fellow whose heritage may go back to the same Triulli in Calabria that his clan hails from!  It takes two in that case to bury that hatchet.   ::)  So, it isn't solely on Tommy.

I say that with the greatest of affection for Tommy whom I came to know.  I consider my time spent with Tommy in his native habitat of So Cal among the golfing hillocks and hollows that he frequented, among the best times I've had that relate to participation on the old web discussion group and here at GCA.com.  

My wife and I often remember back to one of my trips out to L.A. and San Diego, where we spent two of the most memorable and fun days of touring here and there, culminating with fine dinners once at a old haunt Italian restaurant that his Dad used to frequent (although I can't remember that name), and Tommy's favorite, El Cholo.  One of those days was a Sunday, and we toured the -still work in progress at Rustic Canyon (where my wife we believe contracted 'Valley Fever") and several other L.A. haunts, including an enchanting personal tour at dusk of Riviera CC, where I also met Daniel Wexler.  I couldn't believe how Tommy had us just drive up, and the gate attendant looks at Tommy and just waves him in!  That evening ended with Tommy's own personal guided tour of the retracing of events of the crime of that decade, that I call the "O.J. Night of Terror Tour".  Everywhere we went (and L.A. is a very big place) we would get out of the car and someone would yell, "hey Tommy, how ya'doin".  For Tommy was no garden variety L.A. tour guide, he was in deed, "The Emperor"!!!  :o ;D 8)

Yes, I miss the gang getting together around a newly organized King's Putter, which became the foundation of many of the GCA outtings to follow.  Just to think of all those folks I met, around the cult of the Emperor... Dan King, Pete Galea, Geoff Shack and his Dad Lynn, Wild Bill McBride, The Produce Man, Redanman and his brother separated at birth, John Vanderborght,, Mike Golden, Pete Pittock, Craig Edgmand, Sir Boab, Pete Lavallee, Huck, Nuzzio, Stettner, Discher, John Bernhardt,  David Moriarity, Joe Perches, Duran Duran, Shirley ;) I left someone out.... Yes, it was good to know The Emporer!!!

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 03:39:11 PM »

I count myself as one of the lucky ones who has met Tommy in person and spent some time with him.  Long live the Emperor!

Will Lozier

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 05:36:45 PM »
Tommy is spot on in regards to the issue of tone in online communication.  I had a few PM exchanges with Tom Paul on this issue and we agreed that the tone we use on GCA.com should be as cordial and respectful as it would be on the golf course...perhaps more so to compensate for the disconnect.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 06:12:16 PM »

Tommy is spot on in regards to the issue of tone in online communication.  I had a few PM exchanges with Tom Paul on this issue and we agreed that the tone we use on GCA.com should be as cordial and respectful as it would be on the golf course...perhaps more so to compensate for the disconnect.

Will,

Perhaps you should have reviewed TEPaul's many exchanges with David Moriarty, Tom MacWood and myself before offering him up as the voice of reason.  He was responsible for some of the most vile exchanges on this site, so much so that Ran threw him off on several occasions.

The problem with the Internet is that you lose context in terms of the tone of the exchanges.
You can't determine the true flavor on the respondents part
The emoticons help, but don't entirely solve the communication problems.
In addition, there's nothing wrong with passionate, heated debate.
The notion that everyone needs to wear kid gloves and tiptoe with their participation, lest they offend the thin skinned, isn't what "frank discussion" is all about.

I spoke to Tommy several times this past weekend and we discussed his interview and many of the subjects he raised in that interview,  including the venomous exchanges, me and other issues.

But, I don't want to detract from and side-tract comments on Tommy's interview, which I think was terrific


Colin Macqueen

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2012, 06:21:05 PM »
Terrific interview!  This Emperor does have clothes!   And St. Andrews being  "mystical and entertaining" well blow me down has Tommy been channeling my good friend Shivas Irons!

Thanks for this Ran and Tommy.

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Jason Topp

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2012, 06:44:00 PM »
I spent some time with Tommy at one Kings Putter six years ago and feel like we have been close friends for a lifetime.  Feature Interviews are my favorite aspect of this website and, for me, this ranks as the best of them. 

The interview reminded me of Tommy's passion when I was working on a My Home Course many years ago on Oak Ridge Country Club.  Tommy helped me with the pictures and gave me several tips and suggestions.  I would use them today if I did not find the tasks of playing golf and photographing a golf course to be completely incompatible.

Thanks to Ran and Tommy for this.     

Will Lozier

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 07:00:40 PM »

Tommy is spot on in regards to the issue of tone in online communication.  I had a few PM exchanges with Tom Paul on this issue and we agreed that the tone we use on GCA.com should be as cordial and respectful as it would be on the golf course...perhaps more so to compensate for the disconnect.

Will,

Perhaps you should have reviewed TEPaul's many exchanges with David Moriarty, Tom MacWood and myself before offering him up as the voice of reason.  He was responsible for some of the most vile exchanges on this site, so much so that Ran threw him off on several occasions.

I am well aware that Tom was a major offender at times...perhaps that is why he agreed, and maybe he, like Tommy, feel like they could have communicated on a more "cordial" level.  That is the definition of humility, a trait I find to be a core characteristic of those that I respect and, for that matter, love to play golf with.

The problem with the Internet is that you lose context in terms of the tone of the exchanges.
You can't determine the true flavor on the respondents part
The emoticons help, but don't entirely solve the communication problems.

This is precisely what I suggested to Tom and, for that matter, to the late Tom MacWood, who IMHO also crossed the line often. Yet, when I suggested to TM that he was being too harsh in a historical thread (his very legitimate area of expertise), he also showed a great deal of humility in his next post.  It was inspiring beyond any knowledge of or discussion of GCA.

In addition, there's nothing wrong with passionate, heated debate.
The notion that everyone needs to wear kid gloves and tiptoe with their participation, lest they offend the thin skinned, isn't what "frank discussion" is all about.

I never suggested that any of us not be passionate or frank, rather respectful.  

I spoke to Tommy several times this past weekend and we discussed his interview and many of the subjects he raised in that interview, including the venomous exchanges, me and other issues.

He rightly raised this subject, thus my commentary on the interview.

But, I don't want to detract from and side-tract comments on Tommy's interview, which I think was terrific


One of my favorite parts of the interview is the story of Lake Norconian!  Phenomenal and very sad at the same time.  My wife is a architectural historian who earned her master's thesis restoring the windows of the Lincoln Cottage and would be fascinated with the buildings of the resort. And the historic aerial of the course is unbelievable!  I hope I get to meet Tommy at some point and pick his brain for more!

Cheers Ran & Tommy
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 09:47:24 AM by Will Lozier »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2012, 07:56:23 PM »
Will,

It would take years to pick Tommy's brain, he's a compendium of knowledge.

Lake Norconian looks like it could have been a world class facility, but sometimes, politics, family and money issues ruin many a grand scheme.

If you look at some of the great courses/facilities, they tend to be the product of a single individuals efforts, an individual who isn't reliant on others, especially relatives.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2012, 08:11:33 PM »
Before I go on any further, I promised someone I would get something in here:

El Niguel Country Club!


____________________________

I played with the poster from Laguna this summer at ENCC, and the stories of his length are true, and his knowledge of California "hidden gems" is second only to Tommy's.

I have only seen Rustic from a quick drive through and walk around, and I genuinely would like to play it with Tommy on a special occasion.

Tommy's passion got him in trouble, but it also made him and the board interesting. Thanks Tommy.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2012, 09:20:03 PM »
Ran,

It was my pleasure to have dinner with with Tommy Saturday night following the the USC football game. Wow, we talked about GCA, but Tommy didn't mention a word about the interview.

I have had the honor of knowing Tommy since the Tradional Golf days. Sure golf architecture talk often filled our conversation, but as time passed it was really about friendship, being able to talk about our lives, the good and the bad. The truth is in many ways I am far more blessed than Tommy, but his spirit, warmth and generosity have impressed me so much.

Who can forget that memorable round at Yale with Tommy dressing down the Yale brass. They stood speechless unable to respond to Tommy's obvious passion about the gem under their care. I'll never forget Tommy telling them "don't tell me about the union, I'm a union guy". Tommy simply wouldn't accept any excuse for Yale not being the best it could be.

I am also so grateful for the round I played with Tommy a few years back at Rec Park in Long Beach. Here was a course I must have played more than a hundred times when I lived in Long Beach, but playing it with Tommy was like I never played it a single time. He could see so many things I never saw even though they were right in front of me.

Thanks so much for doing the interview. I am sure it is appreciated by those who know and love Tommy.

Now I need to get transferred back to LA!
Tim Weiman

Bob_Huntley

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2012, 11:53:21 PM »
I think that at one time when I spoke not too highly of Spanish Bay, Tommy offered us an unusually poignant story of his epiphany on the course. My attitude changed considerably thereafter.

Best wishes Thomas.

Bob

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2012, 02:16:28 AM »
I have had the pleasure of many hours on nearly a dozen golf courses in several different states with the Emperor. He is passionate man with an encyclopedic knowledge of GCA, Dodgers baseball, quality cannoli acquisitions, and the many avenues available to those wishing to relentlessly hound a certain French-American. He is responsible for introducing me to many of my favorite golfing buddies, and for that I am ever grateful .

But, I still refuse to root for the Dodgers. There is no dodging in real baseball.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 12:21:31 PM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Peter Pallotta

Re: Feature Interview with Tommy Naccarato is posted
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2012, 04:52:35 PM »
Thanks, Ran.

When I read Tommy's thoughts/writing, I get a renewed feeling that maybe golf course architecture actually means something, i.e. that it is an important subject, worthy of our time and passion and discussion.

I don't know whether to love him or hate him for that! :)

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