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Josh Tarble

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2012, 04:29:06 PM »
Would the media care as much if the Seahawks lost on a similar play?

Matthew Essig

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2012, 06:17:25 PM »
Would the media care as much if the Seahawks lost on a similar play?

This is exactly what every radio station in Seattle is talking about. If it happened to Seattle, it would probably be like what happened after the Super Bowl: "Shut up and Stop Whining!!!!!!!!!!"
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Kalen Braley

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2012, 06:29:36 PM »
I highly doubt this is "Green Bay" bias.

I'm a full on 9er fan and that was nothing short of a butcher job...

This whole thing is all about the refs and the NFL owners, or should I say the lack thereof......

Steve_Lovett

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2012, 07:45:23 PM »
I loved all of the "NFL cost us the game" tweets from the Packers lineman. I wonder if the game would've turned out different if those same lineman hadn't given up 8 sacks and been shut out in the first half.

The Packers had 60-minutes to dominate and win the game, they didn't. It came down to the last play which places influences like "luck" and "the human element" in play. Didn't turn out for them this time. Bummer for them....

Overall it's too bad that the officiating distracted us all from a great game - a really hard fought physical battle.

Michael Essig

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2012, 08:16:26 PM »
It did happen to the Seahawks, but it wasn't a "judgment" call.  They mentioned it on MNF - Vinny Testaverde playing for the Jets was down about 2 feet short of the goal line, and after being down, stuck the ball out and they called it a touchdown.  He wasn't falling and stuck the ball out so it was one of those - where is the ball in relation to the knee kind of judgment calls - he was 100% down, withe the ball at his chest, 2 feet short of the goal line, AND THEN stuck the ball out.  It was just a terrrible call.  After the game at the press conference, the coach at the time (name escapes me) said, "What do you want me to do, give them the game?"

This horrible call was the impetus for the NFL re-introducing the review system we have today.

My memory says it got the Jets into the playoffs, and kept us out.  Let's hope the Packers don't suffer the same injustice at year's-end, that would just be a second punishment.

William_G

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2012, 08:28:43 PM »
Boo hoo, a lost game is a small price to pay when being held hostage by labor. I hope the owners stand strong.

+1
It's all about the golf!

William_G

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2012, 08:30:27 PM »
NFL football has been a joke for a long time. Touch calls, penalties every other play, career ending injury around every corner......

Any time you need 6 guys with PHDs and 90 years of experience, 25 cameras with 3 semis full of replay equipment  to administer a game it's flawed.  

Rugby games seem to do fine with ONE referee, who the players call "Sir"



all the whining from media and coaches is deplorable...typically American gravy train mentality
It's all about the golf!

William_G

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2012, 08:32:21 PM »
I'm a Packer fan and I'm physically ill right now. For real.

see a psychologist, it's only entertainment, lol
It's all about the golf!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2012, 08:34:09 PM »
Quote
Ironically, during a week when a titan of marketing and branding the credibility of the art and grace of this sport via the slow motion capture of the extraordinary skills of the players, passed away and surely must have rolled in his grave.

I sure loved watching the films that guy made. They had the all time best announcer who intoned the extremely entertaining prose over this equally entertaining apocalyptic music. So great. I always got a kick out of this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5CTKlF45Ds

NFL Films actually made one golf film - the 1974 PGA. It's my favorite golf film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni_UWDTaf8Q

love that stuff, grew up with all of it!  :)
It's all about the golf!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2012, 08:35:58 PM »
I like the replacement refs. It gives the NFL a "rub of the green" aura because you truly do not know how the call will go. Adds the luck element to the game.
The refs are turning down between 160 and 180 grand a year? For a part time job, c'mon.

agreed, cheers!
It's all about the golf!

William_G

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2012, 08:37:10 PM »
Would the media care as much if the Seahawks lost on a similar play?

hahahaha, absolutely not, well done!
It's all about the golf!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2012, 08:39:04 PM »
back to the golf
It's all about the golf!

Mike McGuire

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2012, 09:16:10 PM »
I loved all of the "NFL cost us the game" tweets from the Packers lineman. I wonder if the game would've turned out different if those same lineman hadn't given up 8 sacks and been shut out in the first half.

The Packers had 60-minutes to dominate and win the game, they didn't. It came down to the last play which places influences like "luck" and "the human element" in play. Didn't turn out for them this time. Bummer for them....

Overall it's too bad that the officiating distracted us all from a great game - a really hard fought physical battle.

Excellent post Steve

The Packers ( I live 90 minutes away and am a fan) score 12 points and bitch about losing? Score your normal 28 and no issues. 

My favorite tweet watching the game (#nfl) was near the end of the first half "Aarron Rodgers has spent more time on his back with black guys on top of him than the Kardashion sisters"

Kalen Braley

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2012, 02:20:13 PM »
For a group that loves to complain and whine about all things golf related...

...sure seems odd to see so many telling the Pack to suck it up and quit cryin'.  They got straight out jobbed in that game.




Mike Hendren

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2012, 02:35:50 PM »
If I opine that it's just a game, someone will undoubtedly rebut that no, it's big business.  So what.

For every Packer fan that's mad, there's a Seahawks fan that's happy.
For every  sucker that lost a bet based on the last minute score, there's another lucky chump who won.
For every fantasy owner that had the Packers D there's likely one that had Wilson or Tate.

Nobody will stay home next week.
Nobody will turn off the television.
At least the pundits have something to wag about.

Everybody's looking for as excuse to be pissed about something - this fits the bill in a more harmless way than most.

Long ago I decided not to let a bunch of youngsters wearing orange disappoint me (Georgia by at least 17 this weekend).  Same thing for a bunch of illterate young millionaires (5 TD's over 60 yards and they still need overtime). 

Bill Shakespeare was right:  It's just a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Bogey

Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Craig Disher

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2012, 03:07:48 PM »
I don't think anyone can be sure that the veteran refs wouldn't have made the same call. There have been worse.

Mark Bourgeois

Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2012, 03:28:28 PM »
I don't think anyone can be sure that the veteran refs wouldn't have made the same call. There have been worse.

I disagree insofar as they didn't blow one call but *two* on that last play, plus they failed to execute the call properly, a third failure. You have to figure the real guys would have gotten at least one of the two right; just getting the one would have delivered the correct result. The execution fail was the replacements didn't huddle, an automatic for the real guys. In the huddle the real guys could have come up with a ruling that was at least reviewable. So that's three chances the real guys would have had to get it right.

Hard to see them blowing all three, which is what makes this such a mind-blowing play. You really have to get some serious occult symbols lined up to make that happen.

John K, how do you mean labor is holding owners hostage? The owners shut them out; the refs aren't striking, boycotting, engaged in a work stoppage, etc. I get you may see this as a semantic point but where's the picket line?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2012, 03:31:52 PM »
The NFL is one of the most efficiently run, successful organizations on the planet.

Do mistakes occur on the field ?  

Of course, but you can't take an isolated incident, or even a number of them, and expand them to systemic proportions.

For all of those "rules and officiating" experts, have you ever refereed a fast moving game like basketball or football ?
The speed of the game, combined with 22 players interacting, adversarially with one another, makes officiating a difficult task, even with multi camera slow motion replay.

We all want to "get it right", but you'll never achieve perfection.

I'm more concerned about how I can hit my mid and long irons more crisply.

RJ_Daley

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2012, 03:39:27 PM »
I'm a bigger labor fan and fan of worker's rights to collectively bargain, in good faith, than I am a football fan, by a wide margin.  I've said my piece above, but will continue to point out that this is a larger issue over a process, than the outcome of a game.  And, in my opinon, if you think the game and this product will be better without the ethical adherence to the process of how to compensate the help, talent, and workers who serve up the product, you are dreaming in a by-gone era of robber barons, and trust monopolies, and dollar-a-day coal miners.  While there seems to be a cult of nostalgia by anti-worker corporatists to return to such, I'm of the belief that the struggle for tenets such as retirement income security, and fair bargain wages and benefits, based on some semblance of a balance of power between owners and workers, will go forward, with many more ebb and flow of the balance point.  

If you are just focused on the game and its ebb and flow until a completely bogus administration of the rules took place, and to McGuire's point, the Pack were ebbing on their backs for the first half, but the hallmark of playing 60 minutes, they dominated the flow of the second half --all but a last skewed and perverted last 4 seconds of that second half, that is.  And, thus the NFL entered the realm of Professional Wrestling, which does perhaps appeal to a certain group of fans that suspend their beliefs in reality in the escapism of fake drama and staged conflict.    

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2012, 03:55:22 PM »
RJ,

Why don't you expound on how the labor movement, specifically, the teacher's unions, has improved the quality of education over the last half century.

The problem with many, and you may be one of them, is the viewing of all incidents/issues through but one perspective, instead of analyzing each specific issue, separate from all others..

There are situations where unions have been and continue to be beneficial, but there are also situations where the opposite is true.

It would seem that one of the critical, almost universal questions, is:

Who pays for it, and IS IT SUSTAINABLE ?

Stockton, California and for that matter, the State of California might be exhibit "A"

The choice or balance between tenure and merit is a difficult one, but hopefully we haven't eroded our values to the extent voiced by Peter Sellars in "I'm All Right Jack", when he said, "since when is incompetence grounds for dismissal ?"

Sadly, i think we're getting closer to that absurdity

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2012, 04:10:15 PM »
I read somewhere that 90% of NFL officials have other jobs.  I think that at least Referee should be a full time position.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2012, 05:54:04 PM »
Pat, these are becoming old hackneyed talking points that get regurgitated in every debate on the subject:  I can listen to Rush or Sean anytime I want to hear these again and again.

Quote
The problem with many, and you may be one of them, is the viewing of all incidents/issues through but one perspective, instead of analyzing each specific issue, separate from all others..

There are situations where unions have been and continue to be beneficial, but there are also situations where the opposite is true.

It would seem that one of the critical, almost universal questions, is:

Who pays for it, and IS IT SUSTAINABLE ?

On your first point, I can and have proven to be a person that can look at the issues separately, and not just in a monolithic "unionism" sense where no other system is acceptable or valid.  While I hesitate to get too personal about my own motives and past history, I will say that I was one who started a movement in my own municipality to promote a complimentary system of 'labor-management' relations based on Japanese Quality Circles, using that worker participatory management model and Deming Principles as a solution to what had become intractable labor-management gridlock, that I experienced in my 'tenure' as a President and chief labor negotiator of my local poice union.  That evolved into a nationally recognized and award winning program called The Madison Quality and Productivity Program.  It didn't replace the process of collective bargaining, but it complimented it and helped foster understandings up and down the chain of command to break some counterproductive gridlock.  It was then applied to other depts as well.

Secondly, I recognize that union leaders can become arrogant and that leads to lawless, rule bending and breaking.  Not unlike the world of high financial fiduciary trust, malfeasance can and does occur.  I, in fact observed a situation in our State Association union leadership and from my BOD and then business agent position, called out what was apparent illegal activity, that resulted in a prosecution and conviction of a union executive gone bad.  I took a lot of guff for calling out the issue, as in some wanting to shoot the messenger.  But, all worked out after time, and that organization is now run by one of the most honest and competent individuals I have ever met in that field. 

So please, follow your own advise and don't ascribe a one size fits all scenario on me.  I don't see myself as any paragon of virtue, but I do and will always advocate for ethics and fidelity in how we do business, unlike what seems to me to be a complete breakdown of such in corporate America, particularly Wall Street and the financial movers and shakers of the world.  It wasn't labor that almost crashed the world my friend.  And, if you do take the narratives on "some" corrupt union activity, the total sum of that graft and corruption, it doesn't amount to one day or one shady deal or malfeasance in the financial and banking and international financial world, as we see play out day after day. 

The narrative on teachers is soooooooo very trite.  Please Pat, you are a smart guy, I'll bet you can get a substitute teacher license in your State.  I did and sub'ed for several years, as my wife still does.  I would give anything for a fellow like you to go into the class room and actually present a competent lesson plan to in a H.S. setting, about 100-120 kids a day spread out in 4-5 classes.  Hell, even Tony Danza put his money where his mouth was and did this and now has a great book about it.  Or you can read Frank McCort's book, "Teacher Man" for more insight.  Or, better yet, I'd like to see you develop nightly lesson plans, then present them, then correct them, and continue that day in and day out for a month, let alone a school year.  This constant drum beat against teachers by the right wing cry babies that have to pay property taxes to fund schools makes me sick.  No one likes to pay taxes.  But, if you don't want to pay any more taxes for such, find a country with all our benefits of life that has less taxes, and live there for a while and tell me how great life is.  Private education and privatized education is a sham and a scam when argued as a panacea like most ppublic school teacher bashers do.  Sure, it works at Notre Dame or my wife's former elementary school, "Notre Dame".  But, they don't have to meet the mandate of our national interest which is to educate 'all' of the kids, not just the financially able or the advantaged, stable family, and not intellectually or emotionally disabled. 

Why don't you and others find a little more passion to pick apart the corporate unlawful and unethical, and find what they have cost this country rather than pick on a public servant and their audacity to desire to bargain over their health care ins., retirement income security pensions, and on-going wage and benefit structure?  Maybe you'll find the effect of rooting out the real evil and greed in this country will allow our society to go further than bog us down with false and incendiary narratives against school teachers and working people who desire to bargain their worth within a fair structure.  I think a new ethic in the board rooms, on Wall Street, and in the international financial behaviors will create a more sustainable future than further impoverishing those public servants that live modest lives that none of your Long Island golf associates and society acquaintances could imagine. 

And before someone brings up the other trite slogans about me advocating for rights for millionaire athletes, and refs with day jobs, I continue to remind you I'm talking about process, not who may be using the process that identifies collectively bargaining for compensation for the worth of your labor, whether it is digging that utility ditch in front of your house, or getting your bell rung by a 300lb lineman bearing down on your skinny behind.  How much do you now think the juicy contracts and NFL player benefits negotiated for a guy like Jim McMahon enjoyed are worth that he may not be able to find his slippers or remember where he lives, in a few years, if the head trauma issue isn't cured?

We all have something...  to validate our beliefs, and these are some of mine.   ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2012, 06:40:06 PM »
RJ,

You're simply ignorant regarding the primary issue in the NFL vs Refs labor dispute and just choose to blindly follow your generic views, and you therefore missed the analogy with the teachers.

At the heart of the NFL issue is ability of the NFL to demote and remove officials who are performing poorly, during the season.

Sound familiar ?

Sound like the same problem that Bush and Obama struggle with ?

The NFL doesn't want to reward and perpetuate poor or mediocre performance, you obviously do.

Obviously you feel that merit, ergo higher levels of performance, shouldn't influence employment on the job.
That poor performing employees should be allowed to continue performing poorly no matter how that affects those they interact with.

I'm curious to hear your view, as a former law enforcement officer, on the NBA union's insistence that the players NOT be subjected to drug tests that include tests for marijuana use.

Would you support the same drug testing policy for airline pilots and police officers ?

That's why I suggested that rather than use a blanket approach, you examine the facts on each particular case, then draw your conclusions.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2012, 07:14:28 PM »
Pat, maybe not all THAT ignorant.  Go back and read my post #8.  I took some of that from this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/18/nflra-urges-compromise-on-pension-issue/

The pension issue is IMHO, the biggest issue on the table and as stated in the article, one that is not even valid as a matter of reality of the situation in the NFL.  Their pension is a defined benefit one and is sound, with no inability for the NFL to pay.  They are simply following the now dogmatic mantra of big biz corporations that have already systematically robbed fully funded and healthy pension funds by first weakening them via lobbied destruction to ERISA rules, accounting rules, and the creation of the 401K defined contribution era.  It has been a process of theft fo nearly 30 years, and that process is highlighted to a fair-thee-well in the book "Retirement Heist" by Ellen Schultz.  Read it!

The reddest of red herrings is the notion that unions merely protect the incompetent.  They have a legal obligation to represent dues paying members under the doctrine of "duty to represent".  I have personally had to go to bat and rep fellows and gals that I'd rather on first impression take out in the woods, somewhere....  But, often you find there is another side of the story.  Sometimes you are defending a lout.  But sometimes you are defending someone that merely rubbed some supervisor wrong, and had a reign of BS and terror brought down on them by the powers that be.  There are all kinds of situations.  But, the general dog whistle that teacher unions are ruining the education system for rep'ing a few isolated cases among the 1000s of teachers is pure malarky.  Nintendo, WII, and Coca Cola and the like are ruining more students education and health than a few bad apple teachers.  And, contrary to your notion, bad teachers are fired, and often prosecuted every day, as are bad cops, nurses and all the rest.  It is a canard that legal representation of a worker, under specific "just cause" tenets are ruining America, or our economy.  It just isn't so.  There is more graft, corruption and waste in every political office staff in this country than you will find in your school district, IMHO.  Prisons aren't full of teachers, but there are enough politicians and staffers in the hooscow.   ::)

And, cops and air line pilots have life and death in their hands and do have drug tests.  Fellows playing football may be able to figuratively kill each other, and there are all sorts of drugs that are bad, performance enhancing, and the like that ruin the credibility of the game, etc.  I'm not too worried about Aaron Rogers on weed, are you? 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: O.T. Clueless in Seattle
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2012, 07:53:45 PM »
Pat, maybe not all THAT ignorant.  Go back and read my post #8.  I took some of that from this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/18/nflra-urges-compromise-on-pension-issue/

The pension issue is IMHO, the biggest issue on the table and as stated in the article, one that is not even valid as a matter of reality of the situation in the NFL. 

RJ, that's a money issue that's not that big and is easily solved.
It's the merit issue that's at the heart of the dispute.


Their pension is a defined benefit one and is sound, with no inability for the NFL to pay.  They are simply following the now dogmatic mantra of big biz corporations that have already systematically robbed fully funded and healthy pension funds by first weakening them via lobbied destruction to ERISA rules, accounting rules, and the creation of the 401K defined contribution era.  It has been a process of theft fo nearly 30 years, and that process is highlighted to a fair-thee-well in the book "Retirement Heist" by Ellen Schultz.  Read it!

The shift away from defined benefit and defined contribution plans occured and lies solely at the feet of the Federal Government, when they capped compensation at $ 200,000.

Clients of mine were putting away 25 %, yes, 25 % of their employees earnings, every year, until the Federal Government capped allowable compensation at $ 200,000.  Business owners were also putting away 25 % of their pay.  When these employees and owners retired, the Federal Government was going to tax every penny they received, so the defined benefit and defined contribution plans were merely deferal, not avoidance plans, and they let employees and owners alike increase their pensions as increases in compensation and gains and interest on the defered funds took place over the years.

When the Federal Government changed the law and restricted compensation to $ 200,000, business owners said to themselves, why am I, who started and built this business only allowed to put away 5 % or 10 %, but, I can put away 25 % for my employees.  They did the math and figured out that they were better off converting their plan to a 401K, which, in my mind are almost worthless compared to their predecessors, and taking the money as compensation, paying taxes on it and investing it.

Bill Bradley and other non-business types championed this restriction, amongst other tax changes and the results are horrendous.

We used to have janitors retiring on huge sums of money and they didn't contribute a dime to these great programs.
The Federal Government and especially the politics of envy are mostly to blame for the demise of defined benefit and defined contribution  pension and profit sharing plans.   And who suffered the most, not the business owner, but the employees.

And, I'll go you one better, had the Federal Government not imposed an excise tax on compensation in excess of $ 1,000,000, compensation that was fully taxable in the highest bracket, I suspect that the systemic stock option system that rewarded higher short term stock prices rather than long term financial health, that alot of the disastrous financial crises wouldn't have occured.


The reddest of red herrings is the notion that unions merely protect the incompetent. 

You disingenuously added the word "merely" and no intelligent person accepts that.
Systemically, and by their inherent nature, unions tend to mute the merit system, and I understand that, I understand that seniority or tenure should count for something.
Even qualified pension plans recognize years of service in their formulas.

But, Peter Sellars's prophetic words have largely become a reality.
That's one of the reasons that our educational system is in such disaray with quality low on the totem pole.


They have a legal obligation to represent dues paying members under the doctrine of "duty to represent". 

I understand, but, like "JUSTICE" they have to be "blind" in the administration of their duties.
They can't favor an obviously incompetent employee, and yet, time and time and time again, they do.
Maybe it's an imperfection in the system.
You, more than others know about the "Blue Wall of Silence".
You, more that others know that transgressions have gone unreported, unindicted and unpunished.
Does that make it right in the specific, understanding the need for unity at the general level ?


I have personally had to go to bat and rep fellows and gals that I'd rather on first impression take out in the woods, somewhere....  But, often you find there is another side of the story.  Sometimes you are defending a lout.  But sometimes you are defending someone that merely rubbed some supervisor wrong, and had a reign of BS and terror brought down on them by the powers that be.  There are all kinds of situations. 



I completely understand that, but, there are limits, boundaries where you don't compromise your standards and your ethics to protect one knowingly in the wrong.


But, the general dog whistle that teacher unions are ruining the education system for rep'ing a few isolated cases among the 1000s of teachers is pure malarky. 

I don't think it's malarky.
Any system that doesn't reward performance can't be good
Any system that protects incompetence can't be good.
And who suffers ?  The students, minors who have no voice.

I believe in collective bargaining for teachers in terms of compensation, vacations, health and employee benefits, but not for protecting those whose performance is substandard to incompetent.


Nintendo, WII, and Coca Cola and the like are ruining more students education and health than a few bad apple teachers. 
I'd agree regarding video games, the computer/calculator and the movement away from reading, writing and math, throw in social skills as well.
But, just because there's another source that's having a negative effect on the education of our students, doesn't absolve the failure for unions to censure or dismiss those who perform poorly and you and I know that the unions have and continue to protect the bad apples.  So, what's the incentive for a teacher to excell when mediocrity is rewarded ?


And, contrary to your notion, bad teachers are fired, and often prosecuted every day, as are bad cops, nurses and all the rest. 
The process, to demote, dismiss or fire bad teachers, cops, nurses or any union employee is laborious and litigious at best.
It's a very difficult process, highlighted by the "Grace" report on Government employees.
Bad cops and teachers are dismissed when criminal offenses are committed and in some cases, gross misconduct, but, RARELY because their performance is substandard.


It is a canard that legal representation of a worker, under specific "just cause" tenets are ruining America, or our economy.  It just isn't so. 
It's a contributing factor.


There is more graft, corruption and waste in every political office staff in this country than you will find in your school district, IMHO. 
But that doesn't exempt teachers, cops or nurses from poor performance.
Just because one party acts worse, doesn't absolve the other party of their failure to perform to benchmark standards.


Prisons aren't full of teachers, but there are enough politicians and staffers in the hooscow.   ::)

We certainly agree on that.
If politicians, were subject to private sector standards, like FASB and others, there aren't enough prisons in the country to hold them.
The financially wreckless, to the point of criminal conduct, policies in the public sector are a disgrace.


And, cops and air line pilots have life and death in their hands and do have drug tests.  Fellows playing football may be able to figuratively kill each other, and there are all sorts of drugs that are bad, performance enhancing, and the like that ruin the credibility of the game, etc.  I'm not too worried about Aaron Rogers on weed, are you? 

If I'm paying him $ 10,000,000 a year, you bet I am.
And, if I'm his team mate, and my salary and health on the field depends on him, you bet I am.
And, if I'm betting $ 1,000,000 per game, you bet I am  ;D ;D ;D

Stay well.