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JR Potts

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Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« on: September 24, 2012, 04:43:41 PM »
GCA:

I've been meaning to write this for a while but have been too busy and/or distracted to sit down and spend a minute writing this.  As a free speech advocate and one who clearly isn't afraid to share his opinion, I wanted to make sure that everyone here knows that I hope and expect them to post their candid thoughts about the Ryder Cup, and Medinah, as they would any other course hosting a major.  I know this "permission" is not needed but I didn't want to serve as a chilling effect to open dialogue given my association and past comments.

Please know, I do reserve the right to comment and mock those, a la Jay Flemma, who "write" ridiculously uninformed, biased and poorly researched and worded articles.

I hope everyone enjoys the Ryder Cup and go USA!

PCCraig

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Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 05:12:58 PM »
Good luck and have fun this week Ryan!
H.P.S.

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 05:48:58 PM »
Good Luck and enjoy the week, we certainly will!   

OT is Bob Svenson stll a member?   played Medinah with his sona few years ago.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 06:21:18 PM »
Where would be some good viewing areas?  I assume 18 would suffice but is there a spot where you can see two greens?
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 06:27:38 PM »
Here's what my plan is (assuming volunteer work doesn't get in the way):

I'm going to try to get there at the crack of dawn.  I'm going to get a good spot on the 1st hole.  Then, I am going to walk to the stands on the 7th hole (good par 5) where you may be able to see some of the action on #5.  Then, I am going to walk to 15 and watch that for a bit. 

We will see how that unfolds but that's my preliminary plan.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 06:56:34 PM »
Where would be some good viewing areas?  I assume 18 would suffice but is there a spot where you can see two greens?

Skip 18.  Many matches won't even make it to that hole. 
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 11:13:19 PM »
Where would be some good viewing areas?  I assume 18 would suffice but is there a spot where you can see two greens?

Another insiders tip...if the wind is blowing out of the south and tee is on the front pad of 11, sit there for awhile as you may see some long drive heroics. 

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2012, 10:51:07 AM »
Not totally relevant, but here is my recently published article in Golf Course Industry regarding my own Medinah Memories.

This month, I’m looking forward to the 2013 Ryder Cup matches at historic Medinah Country Club No. 3 course.  Medinah is personally historic, because it’s where I first played golf.

My best friend’s family were members, and I often went with them to swim, ice skate, or toboggan.  When my friend took up golf, he wanted me to try it, too, which we did, starting in the summer of my twelfth year.

At first, we just hit balls on the practice range, or putted on their huge putting clock near the front entry.  My first divot was actually on that green, rather than any fairway, attempting to launch one clear to the other side with a huge putter swing.
I was hooked on golf from the moment I stepped on the property, mostly because of the beauty of Medinah, with its mature trees, lush fairways and huge clubhouse made me feel as if this – and not Green Acres - was the place to be.  (NOTE:  That is one of those Facebook type questions to see how old you are…..)

Late one day, with the course empty, we actually attempted my first actual golf round on the ladies’ course, where we could start with a three hole loop of holes 1, 17 and 18.  He lined me up on the first tee and stepped aside as I took my first shot - a shank that hit him in the right ankle.  In pain, he set me up again, and again stood aside.  My second shank caught his other ankle, ending our first attempt at “real golf” as I carried him on my shoulders back to the clubhouse.
Eventually, we played that three hole loop, then nine, and finally 18 hole rounds.  We played the ladies’ and then men’s courses depending on traffic, but, having studied the layout of the famous No. 3 on club placemats and ashtrays, I was determined to someday play the famed No. 3.
 
We often played dawn to dusk in virtual seclusion, usually on Monday’s, hoping to avoid guest fees.  All went well for a few years, until one day, we arrived at the then 17th hole (now 13th) hole on No. 3, only to see the pro sitting in a cart behind the green.  After nervously putting out, he presented us with a stern lecture and a bill for $140 in guest fees for my three rounds that day.  That was beyond the means of a 15 year old in 1975, and I tearfully took the bill home to Mom and Dad, who then paid for what I couldn’t afford, and never mentioned it again!  However, my days of free golf at Medinah ended.
However, my interest didn’t.  I watched the US Open there, and disliked negative comments by Palmer and Nicklaus about the sharp doglegs on 13 (now 16) and 18, and on course conditions.  That mature forest always makes ultra fast US Open greens difficult in the summer heat  The course dropped out of the top ten in national rankings, and has yet to recover.

As a teenager, I vowed to design courses just like Medinah.  I never did, eventually agreeing with critics that the narrow fairways, deep woods, and deep bunkers left and right of most greens made for a tough, but not great course, and certainly not a fun one.  I followed popular trends towards more numerous, but shallower bunkers for aesthetic, maintenance and pace of play reasons.  Still, I like to believe that the “Spirit of Medinah” (the title of their excellent club history) shows in my work, because Medinah will always be first in my heart, if not my head. 

I still follow every architectural change to No. 3, most recently by Rees Jones.  As a Golf Course Architect, I know the changes Rees made for the major tournaments are right, but in my heart, I wanted the course to remain as I remember it.  Perhaps, I also hope for golf itself to remain as it was when I was 15.

Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2012, 03:44:22 PM »
Jeff, that's a great story. At Medinah now, was on the course for a couple of hours with a throng of people. Looked like an Augusta practice round crowd.

I like Ryan's viewing plan. You have to have a plan with 40,000 people and four matches or you won't see a thing.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2012, 04:03:57 PM »
Not totally relevant, but here is my recently published article in Golf Course Industry regarding my own Medinah Memories.

This month, I’m looking forward to the 2013 Ryder Cup matches at historic Medinah Country Club No. 3 course.  Medinah is personally historic, because it’s where I first played golf.

My best friend’s family were members, and I often went with them to swim, ice skate, or toboggan.  When my friend took up golf, he wanted me to try it, too, which we did, starting in the summer of my twelfth year.

At first, we just hit balls on the practice range, or putted on their huge putting clock near the front entry.  My first divot was actually on that green, rather than any fairway, attempting to launch one clear to the other side with a huge putter swing.
I was hooked on golf from the moment I stepped on the property, mostly because of the beauty of Medinah, with its mature trees, lush fairways and huge clubhouse made me feel as if this – and not Green Acres - was the place to be.  (NOTE:  That is one of those Facebook type questions to see how old you are…..)

Late one day, with the course empty, we actually attempted my first actual golf round on the ladies’ course, where we could start with a three hole loop of holes 1, 17 and 18.  He lined me up on the first tee and stepped aside as I took my first shot - a shank that hit him in the right ankle.  In pain, he set me up again, and again stood aside.  My second shank caught his other ankle, ending our first attempt at “real golf” as I carried him on my shoulders back to the clubhouse.
Eventually, we played that three hole loop, then nine, and finally 18 hole rounds.  We played the ladies’ and then men’s courses depending on traffic, but, having studied the layout of the famous No. 3 on club placemats and ashtrays, I was determined to someday play the famed No. 3.
 
We often played dawn to dusk in virtual seclusion, usually on Monday’s, hoping to avoid guest fees.  All went well for a few years, until one day, we arrived at the then 17th hole (now 13th) hole on No. 3, only to see the pro sitting in a cart behind the green.  After nervously putting out, he presented us with a stern lecture and a bill for $140 in guest fees for my three rounds that day.  That was beyond the means of a 15 year old in 1975, and I tearfully took the bill home to Mom and Dad, who then paid for what I couldn’t afford, and never mentioned it again!  However, my days of free golf at Medinah ended.
However, my interest didn’t.  I watched the US Open there, and disliked negative comments by Palmer and Nicklaus about the sharp doglegs on 13 (now 16) and 18, and on course conditions.  That mature forest always makes ultra fast US Open greens difficult in the summer heat  The course dropped out of the top ten in national rankings, and has yet to recover.

As a teenager, I vowed to design courses just like Medinah.  I never did, eventually agreeing with critics that the narrow fairways, deep woods, and deep bunkers left and right of most greens made for a tough, but not great course, and certainly not a fun one.  I followed popular trends towards more numerous, but shallower bunkers for aesthetic, maintenance and pace of play reasons.  Still, I like to believe that the “Spirit of Medinah” (the title of their excellent club history) shows in my work, because Medinah will always be first in my heart, if not my head. 

I still follow every architectural change to No. 3, most recently by Rees Jones.  As a Golf Course Architect, I know the changes Rees made for the major tournaments are right, but in my heart, I wanted the course to remain as I remember it.  Perhaps, I also hope for golf itself to remain as it was when I was 15.


Jeff, You may want to edit your article- this is 2012

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 04:42:48 PM »
Jack,

I always put a few easter eggs in to give the editors something to do.....
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2012, 05:03:15 PM »
Jack,

I always put a few easter eggs in to give the editors something to do.....

Medinah is always ahead of the curve.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2012, 07:57:08 PM »
On mobile so this is short but I have to say bravo.
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 08:33:18 PM »
Jeff,

Edits aside, great story!  Though, I have to shame the professional who billed you.  That dude sucks!  He should have scared the hell out of you without strapping your folks and had some fun with it in the process.  Hell, he probably could have gotten a month of free child labor out of you!

Cheers

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 09:07:46 PM »
Jeff:

I love that story!  Thanks!

Ryan

Mark Johnson

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Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2012, 09:59:44 PM »
hey guys,

reading stories about the lack of rough at medinah this week.   Can you confirm how short it is?  is there a big first cut or is it all short?

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2012, 10:07:50 PM »
Wow, according the forecast, firm and fast shouldn't be too difficult to achieve (if that happens to be the desired set up).

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 10:08:34 PM »
It's an inch and quarter everywhere but for the fairways and greens.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 10:21:25 PM by JR Potts »

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2012, 10:19:03 PM »
No rough I saw.  Also, it will be a dry week. 
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2012, 10:54:22 PM »
I'm not a fan of the deterioration in sportsmanship that the Ryder Cup has devolved to.

In addition, today's article in the WSJ about prepping the courses to gain an advantage, led me to like the event even less.

Somewhere along the line this event transitioned from matches where gentlemen represented their team into an ugly competition.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2012, 11:22:42 PM »
I'm not a fan of the deterioration in sportsmanship that the Ryder Cup has devolved to.

In addition, today's article in the WSJ about prepping the courses to gain an advantage, led me to like the event even less.

Somewhere along the line this event transitioned from matches where gentlemen represented their team into an ugly competition.

I agree.  I'm waiting for a contestant to suffer an ACL injury after going vertical for a teammate chest bump.

Or maybe a contestant will yell, "In your face!" to a competitor.

Whose fault is that anyway?  Seve Ballesteros perhaps?  Now it's like a damn football game, although seeing Boo Weekley ride his driver down the fairway like a pony has its merits.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2012, 08:08:16 AM »
Personally, I like the fact that the rough isn't 4 inches.  Who wants to see guys hacking out to the fairway in match play?  I want to see these guys gambling.  It ain't a U.S Open and thank god for that.  I'm excited to see guys play the course in this format and under these conditions.  Should be a great event and will do Medinah proud when the home side brings the Cup back to it's proper resting place.  As an aside, Europe is a 6-5 favorite.  I'm willing to take the Ugly Americans in a gentleman's wager if any of our friend's from across the pond has the guts to put their money where their mouth is... 8) (they've won 6 of the last 8 so it's not exactly going out on a limb to back them...)  Furthermore, in good years it's the best event in golf by a long shot.  To long for the days of plus fours and a smattering of genteel applause from the landed gentry is silly.  Pro golf would do well to have more Ryder Cup type enthusiasm and less well behaved snoozefests like the True South Classic IMO.  If people get excited, it's because they actually care about the damned thing and don't just use golf as an Ambien substitute on Sunday afternoon.  

Patrick, it's called home course advantage, perhaps you've heard of it?  Personally I'm a lot more upset about Europe selling the tourney to the highest bidding dogtrack instead of playing the classic links than any silly course prep which has a statistically negligible advantage to the home side.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 08:28:04 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2012, 09:03:21 AM »
I am in England at the moment and pretty much everywhere I go someone, when they find out I am from the US, talks about the Ryder Cup.  They ask the usual things: who is going to win, what is Medinah like etc.  But then it turns to the fans.  They are hearing that the fans in Chicago are going to be brutal on the Eropean team. Most have decried the unruliness of fans on both sides of the Atlantic.  It is interesting and sad that fans should even be part of the discussion.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2012, 09:24:22 AM »
It's an inch and quarter everywhere but for the fairways and greens.

Holy smokes...an inch and a quarter? I heard that there's no rough but that's practically fairway.

It almost sounds like the set up you would see if Seve was the home captain! ;)
H.P.S.

Will Lozier

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Re: Ryder Cup - Medinah Comments
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2012, 09:28:37 AM »
Patrick, it's called home course advantage, perhaps you've heard of it?  Personally I'm a lot more upset about Europe selling the tourney to the highest bidding dogtrack instead of playing the classic links than any silly course prep which has a statistically negligible advantage to the home side.

Agreed...and Europe should take the Cup to their classic links courses! 

Cheers