East Lake- Dr. Klein's Golfweek Preview.

[Adam Clayman]

Never having played golf in Atlanta proper, I was wondering if the subtext is just too good here?

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/sep/19/tour-championship-hole-hole-east-lake/

[Garland Bayley]

"No. 18, par 4, 235 yards"

I think Golfweek needs better editing.

[Mac Plumart]

Excellent hole comments.

I'd add the firmness of the greens and the thickness of the bermuda rough, in combination, make approach shots key at East Lake. 

Also, I find the closing stretch of holes to be quite good for fostering drama for tournament golf.

[Bill_McBride]

Good luck playing ANY ground game shots on that sticky zoysia.   

I was really turned off by the series of uphill downhill parallel holes on the back nine. 

[Mac Plumart]

Now, now Bill.  It isn't just the zyosia that hurts the bump and run into the greens, it is the fronting bunkers as well.

It is an aerial course built to test the best of the best.  Unforunately, I am not one of the best of the best...and the course kicks my ass...just about every time.  In fact, played there in a tournament last Monday with the course in tournament shape.  WOW!!!  What a ball buster.  A friend of mine called  it a "Big Boy course."  Yep, I think the name fits.

[Bill_McBride]

Now, now Bill.  It isn't just the zyosia that hurts the bump and run into the greens, it is the fronting bunkers as well.

It is an aerial course built to test the best of the best.  Unforunately, I am not one of the best of the best...and the course kicks my ass...just about every time.  In fact, played there in a tournament last Monday with the course in tournament shape.  WOW!!!  What a ball buster.  A friend of mine called  it a "Big Boy course."  Yep, I think the name fits.

Mac, I don't have an aerial at hand, but I recall a number of open entrances into greens.   Anybody have an aerial?

Of course I have a jaundiced viewpoint, as my only round there was played in a steady rain.  Not a down pour but a steady rain.  Soggy.....

[Mac Plumart]

I do have an aerial, but too lazy to post.  And, yes, of course, there are openings to the green on many holes.  I was just being funny.

Holes 8, 12, and 17 have bunkers completely fronting the greens.  All other holes (except the island 6th) have ways to bounce the ball onto the green. 

What makes the course so challenging for me is the firmness of the greens.  Going high onto the greens (due to sticky grass or bunkers) requires a lot of "bite" on the ball to hold those firm greens...which I usually don't have.  So I have a lot of small chips/pitches from the surrounding bermuda grass.  Which when you add in the thickness of the bermuda around tournament time makes for a big score for players of my lowly caliber.

[Bill_McBride]

I do have an aerial, but too lazy to post.  And, yes, of course, there are openings to the green on many holes.  I was just being funny.

Holes 8, 12, and 17 have bunkers completely fronting the greens.  All other holes (except the island 6th) have ways to bounce the ball onto the green. 

What makes the course so challenging for me is the firmness of the greens.  Going high onto the greens (due to sticky grass or bunkers) requires a lot of "bite" on the ball to hold those firm greens...which I usually don't have.  So I have a lot of small chips/pitches from the surrounding bermuda grass.  Which when you add in the thickness of the bermuda around tournament time makes for a big score for players of my lowly caliber.

I really think a course set up with sticky fairways and approaches/collars and firm greens is the worst possible set up. 

Two courses come to mind:  East Lake and Riviera. 

Interestingly, both are championship tests.

[Mac Plumart]

I think you have a great point, Bill.  It takes away options and makes the course a test of the best ball striker...which does seem to be what Joshua Crane the modern day championship test is all about.

[Kalen Braley]

Bill,

Ask and ye shall recieve!! 

[Will Lozier]

"No. 18, par 4, 235 yards"

I think Golfweek needs better editing.

And...Robert Trent "Bobby" Jones!  Come on Brad!  These two mistakes should have never made it to the editing room let alone through it!

Cheers

[Mac Plumart]

Justin Rose and Tiger Woods lead after Day 1.

Watney maybe out of it.   

[Kenny Baer]

I think they seed all the approaches with the same grass on the greens.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

TW's comments after Round 1 about the course:  "I like old style courses"...." It's right out there in front of you." ...."It's simple but hard"

[Dan Kelly]

I doubt if Dr. Klein anticipated anyone's making 8 3's in the first 10 holes, as Dr. Furyk has done today.

Make that 9 3's in 11 holes.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I think they seed all the approaches with the same grass on the greens.

Negative. Greens are mini verde, collars and approaches are 419 Bermuda.

[Greg Tallman]

I think they seed all the approaches with the same grass on the greens.

Negative. Greens are mini verde, collars and approaches are 419 Bermuda.

Anthony, Didn't you just put Tifeagle on your approaches? How does it play? How much more maintenance is it?

[Mac Plumart]

Furyk now in the lead with Justin Rose lurking one back.

This could get interesting.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I think they seed all the approaches with the same grass on the greens.

Negative. Greens are mini verde, collars and approaches are 419 Bermuda.

Anthony, Didn't you just put Tifeagle on your approaches? How does it play? How much more maintenance is it?

Greg,
  We have had tifeagle on the approaches since the renovation of 2005. We removed many of the contaminated areas this summer and resodded with new tifeagle.
  They are a pain to maintain in the correct fashion. I, personally would rather see Celebration or tifgrand as an approach grass. We have so m many extra costs associated with having tifeagle approaches-bi weekly verticutting, fungicides, foliar sprays, topdress 10-12x a year, aerify 3-4x a year. I think that there are grasses that are better suited, most cost effective that our tifeagle, especially since most greens here require a high approch shot to an elevated green with a fronting bunker. If we had more greens that were open to run up shots, I could get my head around tifeagle approaches.

[BCrosby]

Anthony -

A vote for TifGrand. We use it for surrounds and in shaded rough areas. It's been three years and it's been remarkably good in the two very different settings. We plan to experiment with it in fw's.

I think EL made a mistake not redoing their surrounds at the time they changed their greens over to u/d.

Bob 

[Adam Clayman]

 

It's not an especially difficult course, and it’s devoid of blindness, maddening quirks or the unexpected fold in the ground. The absence of wind as a complicating factor – a function both of location and of extensive tree plantings – further simplifies the number of variables that the world’s elite 30 players will be dealing with as they vie for the FedEx Cup title.

Maybe it's me but I found this bit of writing juicy for fodder. Apparently I am alone.

[Mac Plumart]

Adam...I am unsure there is a lot of fodder there.  It is simply what it is.  The course is a straight forward championship test.  Period. 

[Sven Nilsen]

Adam:

I'll chime in as someone who agrees with you that what Brad Klein wrote doesn't seem to describe a very interesting golf course.  However, I think he understates the bit of character that East Lake does have (history excepted), most of it having to do with the elevation changes.  5, 6, 9 and 12-16 are the holes where the upwards or downwards movement comes most into play, and the severity of some of these slopes isn't readily apparent via a TV screen.  The greens themselves also have a bit of interest, beyond just the crazy breaks going on due to the tournament speeds, with internal ridges and several pin locations where you have to stay below the hole.  Add in the two very reachable par 5's, an island/peninsula green and a par 3 closer and you would be hard pressed to say that East Lake doesn't have a distinctive character.

But he is right on about the lack of wind, the absence of blindness and the void of quirk.  Its not Royal County Down.

Question for the group, would it be a more exciting course for this kind of event if they reversed the nines (and you can't use what happened at the 17th last year in your argument)?

Sven

[Mac Plumart]

Question for the group, would it be a more exciting course for this kind of event if they reversed the nines (and you can't use what happened at the 17th last year in your argument)?

No way!  The drama  that unfolds in all the matches I've played on the course, and seen on tv, with those closing holes is epic.  Starting with 13, one ball buster of a par 4...uphill, severely protected green, with crazy contours...to the par 5 15th that is very scoreable...to 17 and 18...the ebb and flow of the match is so volatile with those holes that it makes for down right thrilling golf.

As good as 7, 8, and 9 are the drama is WAY less.

I love the way East Lake ends in its current state, regardless of whether it is me and some local players or watching The Tour Championship.  Exciting stuff.

[Mac Plumart]

Snedeker and Rose sleeping on the lead.

Can they close the deal?