Hoylake and the ladies

[ward peyronnin]

Watching Golf Channel and the wind and rough and and 50 F and the revelation that Miyazato is just now learning to hit a proper knockdown!!!

So my prediction is that it will be even more fun to watch the ladies play in these conditions than the men in 2006.

What sez ye

PS What distance will they play ?

[RJ_Daley]

If the conditions are brisk, it seems 6500 or so ought to be plenty long.  What is par for the ladies, 70-71-72?  If 70, even less ought to be a challenge.  But, watching briefly on TGC at Yanni practice, it looks pretty soft and green, yet cold and very windy, so even 6300 could be a grind.  One couldn't expect the sort of legendary dry firm and fast, near dirt track that Tiger's winning year there presented. .  So, the ball obviously isn't going to run like it did at that Open. 

It should be fun to watch.  I did just hear Gulbis talking about how it is to play there, and she definitely had a good attitude and seemed to embrace the challenge of the very different conditions they are used to.  So, she has that going for her... 

Is there a low ball stinger, wind cheater, bump and run artist on the LPGA? 

[Tom Culley]

Great quote from Michelle Wie this week:

"I think it brings out the inner artist in every golfer when you come to a links golf course."

She gets it.

[Jim Eder]

Remember they play our 17 and 18 as 1 and 2 so 16 is their 18th.

I thought today was a lot of fun to watch.  Tomorrow they are talking about major winds. Fun stuff. 

[mike_beene]

And the OB will be as usual?The OB and wind can really turn the pressure up.

[David_Tepper]

Nice to see the officials had enough sense to call off play for the day and cancel all scores that had been recorded so far during the day. 

[Garland Bayley]

...
Is there a low ball stinger, wind cheater, bump and run artist on the LPGA? 

I have seen MW hit an amazing to me stinger at Columbia-Edgewater under the trees to reach a green after an errant drive. She claims to have grown up playing in the wind in Hawaii.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Wie and Creamer were at Formby for the 2004 Curtis Cup. They had no problem adjusting their games to dry links conditions. I doubt the ladies playing Hoylake have any difficulty adapting their games to whatever conditions they face.

It's not at the same level, but I did a bit of marshalling and walking scoring during the Wales Seniors' Open at Conwy a few weeks ago - Woosnam, Torrance and co. The wind blew, the rain fell and they were tough conditions. It made no difference to them. They took rescue clubs off most tees and hit them 260-265 yards down every fairway. Into the wind seemed to make no difference. Cross winds did not affect them. It was a huge pleasure to be so close to these people playing something approaching exhibition golf. Why doesn't it affect them? It would wreck me!

[Jim Eder]

Paula played there on her way to the Evian Masters in late July so despite her getting there late she knows the course. The course is perfect for her. If only her putter would cooperate.............................   

[Jonathan Mallard]

I don't think the LPGA does themselves any favors in the credibility department by going to low 50 and ties and 36 on Sunday.

If I'm a professional who hiked over there, and you're reducing my opportunity for a check, you're cutting seriously into my ability to make a living.

What's wrong with finishing on Monday? Or Tuesday?

Bob Tway won one on Monday.

[Garland Bayley]

I don't think the LPGA does themselves any favors in the credibility department by going to low 50 and ties and 36 on Sunday.

If I'm a professional who hiked over there, and you're reducing my opportunity for a check, you're cutting seriously into my ability to make a living.

What's wrong with finishing on Monday? Or Tuesday?

Bob Tway won one on Monday.

Low 65 and ties get a paycheck.

[Wayne_Kozun]

The Monday weather forecast is for the same weather as today(Friday)

[Jonathan Mallard]

Low 65 and ties get a paycheck.

Low 65  and ties get a check. Low 50 and ties play on Sunday.

So 15 + ties won't have a chance to improve their position.

Is that REALLY what you'd expect in a major?

[Garland Bayley]

Low 65 and ties get a paycheck.

Low 65  and ties get a check. Low 50 and ties play on Sunday.

So 15 + ties won't have a chance to improve their position.

Is that REALLY what you'd expect in a major?

they won't get a chance to post really high number either.
There were times when there weren't even 50 players in a major. So, I'm not too concerned with this wrinkle.

[Kris Shreiner]

Jonathan,

Pros REGULARLY played 36 in a day in the past. College kids TODAY do it all the time. Stamina IS still part of the game at the competitive level. If conditions are difficult...buck up! Professional golfers DON'T need still more pampering. NO ONE is entitled to make a living playing golf. One EARNS his/her take. Tough days are part of life, just like they are for virtually every other profession.

Cheers,
Kris

[Dan Herrmann]

The issue is that the LPGA players are so extremely slow on/near the greens that they'd never get in 36 in September with 65 players.

PS (and OT) - Do any of the Open contestants use a long putter? 

[David Bartman]

I just returned from the Ladies Championship, anything that you guys would like to know I will try my best to answer. I caddied so I got first hand experience of the course and conditions. 

fire away

[Tony_Muldoon]

I just returned from the Ladies Championship, anything that you guys would like to know I will try my best to answer. I caddied so I got first hand experience of the course and conditions. 

fire away

Thanks David

I taped the BBC coverge and I've been enjoying a few holes each night. It reminds me why I prefferred Hoylake to Birkdale or Lytham.  It has real character and variety.


1  Please name the player you caddied for adn how they got on.
2  How long was the course they played and did the set up get changed each day depending on the forecast?
3  General reation of the players to the course. Particularly to the OOB berms?

That should do for now.

[Andy Stamm]

Did you make it out on Friday?

I was very surprised that play was cancelled. It didn't look to me that balls would move on the green or that there was anything unsafe, which I would have thought would have been the only reasons to cancel play. I understand it was brutal out there, but am I missing something? Did play need to be cancelled?

Thanks.

[David_Tepper]

Andy S. -

It was reported that the wind was gusting up to 60mph on Friday.

From espn.com:

"Play was called off for the day at the Women's British Open on Friday because of strong wind that disrupted the second round so badly that organizers declared early scores "null and void."

With wind gusting to 60 mph at Royal Liverpool, players struggled to keep the ball on the tees and greens. Play was suspended at 8:25 a.m. with 36 players on the course and the round was called off at 2 p.m."

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/8377204/2012-women-british-open-2nd-round-play-suspended-due-strong-winds

DT

[Andy Stamm]

Andy S. -

It was reported that the wind was gusting up to 60mph on Friday.

DT

I was watching when they called it, and it wasn't blowing that hard at that point. I don't think any balls had yet moved on the greens. When they suspended play at St Andrews in 2010 it was after balls were moving (and penalties for that had been accrued). The conditions certainly didn't look as bad as the 3rd round at Muirfield in 2002, which was a bad as I've seen including 2010, but they played on. I was surprised that play was called at Hoylake before any conditions necessitated it. It turns out it was the "right call" in the sense that it got worse, but like I said I was surprised to see it called on the basis of forecasted weather that I don't think would have created a dangerous situation, by which I mean conditions would have been unplayable and you would clear the course long before anything dangerous happened. Unless I'm missing something.

[David_Tepper]

Andy S. -

I was not watching on TV on Friday. I have played Hoylake and know that some of the holes are fairly sheltered and other holes are very exposed out by the water. Were conditions on all the holes shown on TV at the time play was called?

If you read the espn.com article, there are comments from several of the players that their balls were oscillating on the greens and when teed up. From reading the article, it seems to me that conditions were plenty severe enough at the time play was called to warrant doing so.    

From the Guardian:

The final major of the season descended into farce at Royal Liverpool on Friday when players at the Women's British Open found themselves battling with conditions that the 2004 winner Karen Stupples described as "laughable".

Gusts reached 60mph before the second round was suspended after 78 minutes and all recorded scores cancelled. The championship will resume at 6.50am on Saturday, the Wirral weather permitting. The forecast was for the wind to drop overnight, with rain a possibility for Sunday.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/sep/14/gales-womens-british-open-golf?newsfeed=true

I am certainly interested to hear what David Bartman has to say.

DT

[Andy Stamm]

Dav

I read/heard that as well. That's why I'm hoping to get a first hand account. What I saw and the commentary at the time, didn't make it look/sound that bad. I'm not sure which holes I was watching. It was early in the round though, so I'm pretty sure it was the front 9. The most exposed holes are the middle/late stretch on the front, I think?

It may well have been too bad at the time that it was called, but that's not what it looked like on tv. At St Andrews they definitely didn't call play when balls started oscillating. Balls were moving and penalties were accrued. Maybe that was after the line was crossed, but they were monitoring the situation very carefully and seemed comfortable with balls oscillating. This was all at the (very exposed) loop, the rest of the course was fine.

One thing was different. At St Andrews it was sunny and not raining when the wind was up. At Hoylake it was raining and nasty. The greens at St Andrews weren't that fast, but as green as Hoylake was I doubt they were faster, and I'd bet slower, but that's a guess. But since it was actually raining, I think a pretty safe one.

[David Bartman]

I just returned from the Ladies Championship, anything that you guys would like to know I will try my best to answer. I caddied so I got first hand experience of the course and conditions. 

fire away

Thanks David

I taped the BBC coverge and I've been enjoying a few holes each night. It reminds me why I prefferred Hoylake to Birkdale or Lytham.  It has real character and variety.


1  Please name the player you caddied for adn how they got on.
2  How long was the course they played and did the set up get changed each day depending on the forecast?
3  General reation of the players to the course. Particularly to the OOB berms?

That should do for now.

Do you realize that they changed the routing from how the club plays it?  # 17,18 were moved to #1 and 2 with #1 becoming #3, I will use the tournament routing when discussing length changes.   
1. Ryann O'Toole - she played poorly and was in the bad wave of tee times - Missed Cut
2. They played the course at around 6300, two tees #5 (par 5) and #17 ( long par 4 ) were both moved up 30+ yards.  ALL the other tees were moved to the front portion of the teeing areas, anywhere from 5-10 yards forward. 
3. The greens were in terrific condition as were the fairways, I think the women were pretty frustrated overall , but mostly with the way the tournament was run.  On Tuesday , they had a double shotgun pro am so that only 30 women were able to play practice rounds.  Most of the women only played 1 practice round which for a major or any tournament really was a total joke.  I do think that most of them liked the golf course , but really didn't appreciate the conditions in which they had to play.  The OOB berns didn't seem to have much impact one way or another.  I personally found them interesting.   The second round, one of our playing partners , hit a poor drive on 18 and then hit her second which squirted right out of the rough, it rolled towards the bern, and just happened to enter a trampled down section only to roll a few inches out of bounds, one of the most unlucky breaks I saw in my 36 holes and I saw many due to the high winds.   

[David Bartman]

Did you make it out on Friday?

I was very surprised that play was cancelled. It didn't look to me that balls would move on the green or that there was anything unsafe, which I would have thought would have been the only reasons to cancel play. I understand it was brutal out there, but am I missing something? Did play need to be cancelled?

Thanks.

When we were driving in I saw the grounds crew rolling and mowing the 4th green.  I thought to myself that doesn't seem wise, high winds were forecast and there was talk at the beginning of the week about the greens being slow due to the frequent possibilities of balls rolling on the holes closest to Wales and the estuary.   Play was called when women hit a 3 foot putt 6 inches short and then a gust of wind blew the ball back to her feet.

Another woman asked if the course was playable at the start of her round and an official stated something to the effect of we are not sure, you will be a test.