Crooked Stick: Which other (top) course was developed by its designer?

[Jeff_Mingay]

As I understand things, Pete Dye instigated the idea for Crooked Stick (site of this week's BMW Championship) and essentially put the development deal together, himself, back in the 1960s. This is fascinating.

It makes me wonder, too: Where else were courses of this caliber built with the golf course designer leading the development?

Of course there's Willie Park Jr. at Huntercombe, c. 1900. Others since? 

[George Pazin]

Fownes and Oakmont.

[Doug Sobieski]

Muirfield Village?

[Sven Nilsen]

NGLA.

[Josh Tarble]

Augusta could be included in this group...depending on how much you consider Jones' influence of the design.

[Kevin Stark]

Not of that caliber, of course, but Woodland CC just down the road from Crooked Stick was built and developed by Bill Diddel. The original course is NLE; the current course is a Pete Dye design.

[Jonathan Davison]

Prince de Provence - Robert Trent Jones Snr.

[Jeff_Brauer]

RTJ also developed a  few courses in FL that he later owned.

How about Pasa?  Don't know if Hollins counts as a co-designer, or Mac as a co-developer.

Many architects have gotten involved in the development deals of golf courses of their own design.

[Chris Clouser]

Perry Maxwell and Dornick Hills.  Also Maxwell was involved with the land that became Twin Hills in Oklahoma City before the course was built there.

[Nigel Islam]

Would Peachtree fit into that category?

[Wayne_Kozun]

Annie and Bay Hill?

[Doug Sobieski]

Annie and Bay Hill?

Arnold Palmer bought the club, already in existence, after playing the course in an exhibition. The original investment/development group was a handful of guys from Tennessee.

[Sean_A]

Perhaps we could include Colt and Swinley Forest.  I think Colt was directly involved with the idea of developing the course, choosing the land, contractors etc.  He essentially worked as the project manager/secretary/designer - the hands on part of the development for several years. 

Of course we have a very modern example with our own Adrian Stiff at The Players Club, at least I think this was the case.

Ciao

[Scott Sander]

Not of that caliber, of course, but Woodland CC just down the road from Crooked Stick was built and developed by Bill Diddel. The original course is NLE; the current course is a Pete Dye design.

Would love to know if and how much Diddel's development of Woodland inspired Dye; Dye has always said he learned a lot from Diddel.
 
One interesting difference - Diddel developed his as a public course and then took it private.  Dye developed his with backers with the intent of it being very private from the jump.

Diddel also did Woodland in the Autumn of his career, while Crooked Stick came in the early days of Dye's Spring.
 
By all accounts, both men fiddled and fussed with their home layouts constantly over the years. 

The Indianapolis Star just did a nice story on what Dye had to do to get his done.  Dye has told the elderberry wine story plenty of times, but it's still an interesting read:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120903/SPORTS/209040314/Before-Pete-Dye-could-build-Crooked-Stick-he-had-some-persuading-do

[Ron Kern]

Bill had visions of Woodland long before it came to fruition.  He bought the land in 1928 and managed to hold onto it through the Depression.  Finally in 1951 it became a reality.  The original Woodland was incredibly dear to Bill.  Some of my most cherished golf memories are playing Woodland with Bill and my father, Gary.

[Scott Sander]

Ron-

One of my great golfing disappointments is never getting the chance to play the Diddel course - one I quite literally grew up watching through a fence in the neighborhood immediately to the south.  I always said I'd come back and play it some day.  The course there now is, IMO, fantastic... but it's not the one I grew up staring at.

From past postings, I know you know much more about that whole saga - and I don't want to derail the thread by polling you about it - but there seems to be some fertile ground that might be useful in the conversation. 

Can you tell us more about Diddel's motivation for and execution of the development?   As you know, the "neighborhood" is a single one-way street, right past the clubhouse and into the course - that's always struck me as extremely unusual.  To your knowledge, was he interested in residential development - or was the sale of the lots strictly a means to fund the project? 

My guess, based on conversations with older neighbors, is that Woodland was first and foremost a laboratory/playground/monument to and for Mr. Diddlel's vocation and that the homes were a happy side-effect.

Jeff-
Sorry if this verges on derailing the thread.  If you say it's too OT, I'll shaddup with the questions.

-Scott

[Jeff_Mingay]

No, you're good Scott. The Woodland story is interesting.

So is the Crooked Stick story. I've heard it before, but thanks for the link to the Indy Star article too. 

[Ron Kern]

My father Gary would be better to answer these questions about Woodland.  Bill was his mentor, got him into the business and they had a close relationship.  I will send him an email note and see what I can find out and post here.

[Tommy Williamsen]

How about Bayonne? Erik Bergstol.
Fazio credits Steve Wynn as co-designer at Shadow Creek.

[Howard Riefs]

Nicklaus and The Bears Club.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Annie and Bay Hill?

Absolutely NOT

Dick Wilson designed that course

Bayonne is 100 % pure Eric Bergstol who also designed other courses he owns/owned

[Jim Franklin]

How about Ross and #2? Didn't he tweek that fairly often in order to make it better than Augusta since he did not get the Augusta job?

[Doug Sobieski]

Annie and Bay Hill?

Absolutely NOT

Dick Wilson designed that course

Patrick:

You'll notice that I didn't mention Dick Wilson in my reply above. Apparently, you aren't aware of the controversy over who is primarily responsible for the design of Bay Hill. It's akin to the AWT/Burbeck debate over Bethpage. It all starts with the fact that the routing was actually done by RTJ, and it takes off from there.....

Regards,

[Alex Lagowitz]

Mark Parsinen (probably misspelled that) owns Castle Stuart and Kingsbarns.  He is also listed as co-designer for those courses.