[Tim Nugent]

Need some help for a client who doesn't understand why one would put bunkers in the middle of a fairway- "You are only punishing the poor player when he hits a good shot for him".
The hole in question is a 350 yd straight hole with a par of centerline bunkers working short right to long left about 200 out.  Elevated, modiifed reverse Redan green (with a receptive 1/3 front slope) dictates that left side of fairway provides the best angle.  Irrigatioin pond borders left side of hole.

[Ronald Montesano]

Can you use fairway width to appease the poor fellow?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tim,

Two classics immediately came to mind: 16 at St. Andrews-Old and 4 at Woking.

[Ronald Montesano]

Does fairway slope toward irrigation pond? is there much space right of the short, centerline bunker?

[Adrian_Stiff]

I tend to think the client is partly right. Centreline bunkers are kinda crazy for most people. If you look back at history mainly they got taken out. The problem today is that they can interfere with a good players tee shot and a poorer players second, such is the range that good players and rabbitts hit it. There are situations where they can fit of course. I usually hate redan's as well.

[Tim Nugent]

Can you use fairway width to appease the poor fellow?

It's wide enough, with the right actually begining conjoined with the adjacent fairway althought the further right you go the worse life becomes.

[Tim Nugent]

Does fairway slope toward irrigation pond? is there much space right of the short, centerline bunker?

No, actually I will berm the left side as much as possible.

[Sean Leary]

2 at Pacific Dunes....

[Phil McDade]

Tim:

I like them; here are my general rules of thumb from what I've observed:

-- Make it visible; I think most players -- even here on GCA -- object to blind hazards off the tee in preferred landing areas.

-- Position it so the very good golfer (perhaps a single-digit handicap) has to think about whether or not to carry it. I'd make it "carry-able" in terms of distance from the tee for the very good golfer, but if that golfer hits an average shot, he'll be penalized with a ball in the bunker.

-- Provide both a preferred side and a less-than-preferred side with which to avoid the bunker. The 16th at The Old Course is the template for this. In short, make one side of the fairway easier to hit off the tee (largely with more width), but make that a more exacting approach into the green (perhaps with a greenside bunker to carry). Reward the more difficult-to-hit path that avoids the bunker with an easier approach into the green. (The 16th at TOC provides all kinds of room left of the centerline bunkers, but a narrow path between the bunker and OB right of the bunker. Of course, that shot is rewarded with an easier approach, as opposed to the more difficult approach from the left side that's easier to hit off the tee.)

-- Make it a relatively straight-forward tee shot so the bogey golfer doesn't have to worry too much if he simply decides to play short of it, leaving himself with a longer approach into the green.

-- Make the bunker gathering in nature, i.e. don't surround it with rough. But don't make the bunker so penal in nature -- say, with a high fronting lip -- that no golfer would bother with the risk of playing toward it/over it.

I like thoughtful centerline bunkers because they provide for, potentially, several options of play for a range of players. I'll see if I can dig up some photos of some.

[Garland Bayley]

14 at Chambers Bay

[Tim Nugent]

Thanks Phil, some photos would help. We are pretty much on the same page  Kinda like a reverse of Woking but eith the bunkers slanting across rather than stacked 2 deep.

[Sean_A]

Unfortunately, TOC's 16th now has rough to the left - I wouldn't mention that as an example.  For sure you should use Woking's 4th.

If I am understanding Phil correctly, he is essentially advocating fairway centreline bunkers in the same way we often encounter them for greens.  I don't see why its okay for greens, but not for fairways.  Who complains about the placement of the centreline bunker when they dump it short going for the green?  Only a big girl's blouse would. 

Ciao

[Phil McDade]

Unfortunately, TOC's 16th now has rough to the left - I wouldn't mention that as an example.  For sure you should use Woking's 4th.

If I am understanding Phil correctly, he is essentially advocating fairway centreline bunkers in the same way we often encounter them for greens.  I don't see why its okay for greens, but not for fairways.  Who complains about the placement of the centreline bunker when they dump it short going for the green?  Only a big girl's blouse would. 

Ciao

Blasphemy! How much rough and how close to the bunker complex there?

Sean -- I like centerline bunkers (well done of course) better than bunkers fronting greens, which lead to one-dimensional approaches (for the most part) into greens.

[Greg Tallman]

Cabo del Sol - Ocean #8 

[Bill_McBride]

Unfortunately, TOC's 16th now has rough to the left - I wouldn't mention that as an example.  For sure you should use Woking's 4th.

If I am understanding Phil correctly, he is essentially advocating fairway centreline bunkers in the same way we often encounter them for greens.  I don't see why its okay for greens, but not for fairways.  Who complains about the placement of the centreline bunker when they dump it short going for the green?  Only a big girl's blouse would. 

Ciao

I was SO disappointed last time on the Old Course to see the rough only a few yards left of the Principal's Nose complex.   It turns the hole into a tight driving challenge.  There should be less fairway on the more desirable side of a centerline bunker, but that used to be the right fairway at TOC, which Nicklaus said was "strictly for amateurs."

Tim, what is the width of the left hand fairway?   I gather there is huge space right of the bunker but a ruinous angle.   Does your client not get strategy?   I know you do from pla ying High Meadow Ranch.   

[Bill Shotzbarger]

14 at Chambers Bay

+1

One of the most exciting tee shots I have EVER hit.

[Lou Cutolo]

# 8  at NGLA

[RJ_Daley]

Tim, tell your client that if he is worried about punishing the poor player with one only 200 off tee and one side more favorable than the other, that the poor player should simply aim right for the bunker, as they can't hit what they aim at anyway!  And voila, miss the bunker have a nice second shot look.  

Or, have that client go to any of the usual darlings of GCA.com in Nebraska sand hills.  There are a wide variety of centerline bunkers from ones off the par 4 tee, to ones in the LZ of a second shot to a 3 shot par 5.  They have them slightly off center favoring an easier side that is longer to green on slight doglegs, and shorter narrower side shorter to the green.  

There was a photo thread on a Jim Enge course in CO with interesting elongated centerline bunker that seemed designed to get into the head of the longer player that normally would just blast it over the centerline bunker, but due to elongation and slope of FW towards and gathering into the bunker, gave that stronger player more to think about.

I don't think I ever encountered a centerline bunker I hated.  I love the little pot on 13 Rustic Canyon that has a large gathering depression in FW into that little phonebooth size centerline pot.

I'm very partial to this centerline bunker, slightly offset on the 7th hole about 350 yard hole at Wild Horse, where the wider right side is slightly longer and open to front of the green second shot, to a fall away green, and the narrower side of the very slight dogleg left is shorter to green but has to go over another formidable left side green bunker.  Rather than a pond, the wooga is up the left shorter narrow side.  In this photo that is in my Wild Horse write-up here on GCA, the very golf course designer and builder responsible for that delicious centerline bunker happens to be entrapped in his own creation.    That is the elusive and rarely seen, Mr. Dan Proctor enjoying his work.  The boys gave us a number of interesting centerline bunkers at Wild Horse, and you should send your client there!  

[Howard Riefs]

Kingsley, #1

http://www.kingsleyclub.com/course-tour/1st-hole.html

[RJ_Daley]

Howard, that is one exciting way to start your round.    Mike D, used this same theme of centerline bunkers and rock outcroppings at Greywalls. 

[Joe Bausch]

My current fave is the 4th at White Manor:

[Brian Colbert]

#4 at White Manor is a great hole, one of the best on the course in my opinion.

#13 at Bethpage Red is a nice example too.

The best I have ever played though?

#10 at Old Macdonald.

In my opinion, the best holes with bunkers in the middle of the fairway are the ones that make the golfer choose a side and have a side that is harder to hit your driver into but leaves the better angle of approach, and a side which is easier to hit to but leaves the player with a tougher approach shot. All three of these holes accomplish that well.

[Rich Goodale]

2nd at Carnoustie.  One feature it has that others don't is that you CAN carry it for a significant strategic gain, but only if you hit your best shot.

[Joe Bausch]

#13 at Bethpage Red is a nice example too.

Good call!

[Ben Jarvis]

Two very good examples that first come to mind are on Melbourne's Sandbelt and are both par-5s.

1. #12 Kingston Heath - dictates the drive
2. #10 Royal Melbourne East - dictates the second/lay-up shot

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