[Dan Herrmann]

In the metro Philadelphia area, I've seen more and more bermuda grass in the rough over the last few years to the point where I'm guessing that 10% of our rough now has bermuda in it.

How does a southern grass like bermuda find a foothold up here?  Yeah, it's been getting warmer here, but that alone doesn't explain how the grass  ends up here.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share.

[Mark Bourgeois]

This reminds me of a Far Side cartoon. Two pilots in a plane seemingly at cruising altitude are peering through a gap in the clouds at a mountain goat directly ahead: "What's a mountain goat doing way up here?"

[Mike_Young]

I think the Huntingdon Valley practice tee is bermuda...

[JSlonis]

Dan,

It become a big problem and brutal to deal with. Right now, there really isn't a fully effective way to get rid of it.  I've heard there is a chemical in the works that will hopefully be approved next year that has shown very positive results.

We've been battling a Common Bermuda problem at Tavistock for the past few years. One thing that can suppress the Bermuda is a hard freeze, so with the very mild winter and another scorching summer, it's really taken off this year.

[Dan Herrmann]

Great information - much appreciated.

Jamie - Tavistock's experience is exactly the same as French Creek.  We don't have irrigation in the rough and the bermuda seems to quickly fill in areas left "scraggly" by heat/dry periods.

[JSlonis]

Dan,

We have issues even in perfectly turfed areas like fairway's and bunker banks.

One thing we are looking at now is the possibility of how growth regulators used on our bent grass may be allowing the Bermuda to out compete it.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Dan,

We have issues even in perfectly turfed areas like fairway's and bunker banks.

One thing we are looking at now is the possibility of how growth regulators used on our bent grass may be allowing the Bermuda to out compete it.

  Unfortunate thing with growth regulators, the highest rates on bentgrass will leave bermudagrass laughing. We have primoed some Celebration sod at over 25oz/acre and it regulated it a manageable degree. 25oz on bentgrass will be a quick and expensive dead for the bentgrass. The cheap, but painful alternative is a few applications of Roundup/Fusilade, sod cut out the dead bermuda grass down 4-6" (to get all the runners) and RESOD. Seeding is OKAY, but leaving the soil exposed for 14-21 days will allow bermuda to creep back it. It's a vicious cycle.

[Dan Herrmann]

I sure don't envy you Supers!

[JSlonis]

Anthony,

We did the Roundup/Fusilade treatment with cut out and resodding to some larger Bermuda areas on two separate fairways. One fairway it looks like we were pretty successful. On the other, we've got plenty of Bermuda coming back through the sod. I'm wondering if we went down deep enough. This stuff is a bitch!

Thanks for additions to this thread.

[archie_struthers]

   

Zoysia was thought to be a super grass for the Mid Atlantic long ago. Eb Steiniger , a long time steward of Pine Valley, did lots of experimentation with the grass. It became so strong on the right side of 11 green and fairway that it took incredible amounts of work to remove.  The new hybrid bermuda is very similar in its infestation these days in our region.

Does that mean we all have to vote democrat   LOL

[Doug Braunsdorf]

...

[Tommy Williamsen]

Here is a blog form our super about eradicating our Bermuda.

http://www.ccwoodmoregcm.com/2012/08/bermudagrass-eradication.html

[Dan Herrmann]

I'd like to follow up on Jamie's observation about a hard freeze.  How cold does it need to be to kill this stuff?  Probably, what, under 10F for a week or so with no snow cover?  

[jim_lewis]

Trying to kill Bermuda is probably a frustrating waste of time. Just when you think you have killed it, it will return. I've seen common Bermuda growth through concrete. Any chemical strong enough to kill it, will probably kill any other plant. Also, don't count on cold weather to do the job.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Dan
How do you know the bermuda grass wasn't there 1000 years ago?
Cheers

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike - I don't, but I know that I never had to play out of it before, say, 2007, and every year we're seeing more and more.

Maybe we should rename Pennsylvania to North North Carolina.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Dan
How do you know the bermuda grass wasn't there 1000 years ago?
Cheers

Mike, you tell us, was bermuda grass here 1000 years ago?

[Don_Mahaffey]

Cynodon dactylon is not native to North America. While it probably made a stop in Bermuda on its USA invasion, it is actually native to Asia and Africa.  So, I'm guessing it was not here 1000 years ago and I'm also guessing long time Supers (if there are any left) will tell you they have seen it before during multi year periods of higher then normal winter temps. Give it a winter or two and things will return to normal.

I know that's not the politically correct answer to some, but I do not believe we'll never see a cold winter again. 

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Thanks, Don.  So you're saying it's just kind of a cyclical thing, a few good, cold winters will take care of it? 

How deep do bermuda roots penetrate into soil?  Deeper than bent roots?

Last winter in NJ was pretty mild.  Winter 09 and 10 were pretty cold and a good amount of snow. 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Cynodon dactylon is not native to North America. While it probably made a stop in Bermuda on its USA invasion, it is actually native to Asia and Africa.  So, I'm guessing it was not here 1000 years ago and I'm also guessing long time Supers (if there are any left) will tell you they have seen it before during multi year periods of higher then normal winter temps. Give it a winter or two and things will return to normal.

I know that's not the politically correct answer to some, but I do not believe we'll never see a cold winter again. 

Hmm, did it come over on the slave ships a la seashore paspalum?

[Steve Okula]

I don't know about Phillie or southern NJ specifically, but Bermuda is not new to the mid-Atlantic region. In Maryland in the '70's it was pretty common. I worked at Woodmont CC in Rockville MD in 1976-7 and they had 18 holes (out of 36) with Vamont variety bermuda fairways.

[A.G._Crockett]

I'd like to follow up on Jamie's observation about a hard freeze.  How cold does it need to be to kill this stuff?  Probably, what, under 10F for a week or so with no snow cover?  

I'm not a greens super, but my observation about "winter kill" of bermuda here in the South is that it is most likely to occur when there is a very wet period, followed by a hard freeze, followed by snow/ice that stays on the ground for a prolonged period.  The winter kill tends to happen in shaded areas where the snow/ice hangs on longer.  We rarely see winter kill from cold alone, but of course we wouldn't have prolonged periods where the ground stayed frozen.

But as long as I'm guessing...

I'd bet the bermuda that you are seeing is in areas where it is LEAST likely to encounter the conditions that would kill it off; that's why it is proliferating in some places.  The places that would have the necessary conditions for winter kill of bermuda don't have any anyway.  Make sense?

One cautionary note:  Our super sprayed preemergent in our bermuda rough in early March as he always does.  We then experienced the warmest March on record, causing the bermuda to green up much earlier than normal.  The preemergent caused the rough to turn brown and appear completely dead.  For about two weeks...

Now, in August, we have the thickest rough we've ever had, to the point where the mowing schedule can't even keep up with it and the penalty for being in the rough is easily a half shot.

My advice?  Learn to play out of bermuda rough.  I'll bet that you are going to see more and more of it; there is damn near nothing short of napalm that you could kill it with and have anything else survive.

[jeffwarne]

I'll be thrilled when the bermuda takes over the northeast.
If we're going to have these God awful hot, humid summers, we might as well  have some milder winters.
I'll bet more than a few supers up here wished they had bermuda on their greens this summer

Buy land in Nova scotia

[Carl Rogers]

Riverfront in Suffolk, VA (Tidewater VA) has bent greens and bermuda everything else (from what I can tell).  The bermuda does creep into the greens and keeps the ground game options very limited within a few yards of the greens.  I, too, am beginning to think it is a losing battle to keep it out. 

Dormant bermuda has occurred every winter I have played there (about 8 years).  I like it.  I have to believe that Tidewater VA is a bit warmer in the winter than the inland parts of VA.

As this course was finished in the 1998 to 1999 time period and many greens have few pinnable areas, I wonder when a re-work will be required?  Will some kind of bermuda be the answer?  ... and yes I wonder the overseed options?

Tom if you are lurking, please correct me.

[BCrosby]

"Hmm, did it come over on the slave ships a la seashore paspalum?"

Mark -

I had always heard that Bermuda grass was imported to the US in the late 19th century as a forage grass for cattle in the South. Anyone got more info on that?

But for common Bernuda, golf courses would not have been possible in the South at the turn of the last century. Common (or 'fence line') Bermuda is a very coarse grass, which is why so many greens in the South were sand as late as the mid 30's.

Bob

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