Golf Magazine 2012 Top 100 You Can Play

[Richard Choi]

Surprised no one has posted already...

http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/pacific-dunes-edges-pebble-beach-best-public-golf-courses-you-can-play

Top 10:
1. Pacific Dunes
2. Pebble Beach
3. Pinehurst #2
4. Whistling Straits (Straits)
5. Kiawah Ocean
6. Bethpage Black
7. Sawgrass
8. Bandon Dunes
9. Old Mac
10. Spyglass

New
38. Pronghorn (Nicklaus)
78. Prairie Club (Dunes)
84. Marquette Golf Club (Greywalls)
96. Dormie Club (Hey, you can play it now!  ...that is an inside joke)

Significant Movers
Princeville 22>>16
Erin Hills 35>>29
Forest Dunes 45>>33
Primland (Highland) 49>>36
Crosswater 39>>45
Bay Harbour 38>>49

Let it fly, boys...

[Jud_T]

Who would honestly prefer to play Whistling Straights over Old Mac?

[Wade Whitehead]

What's the average greens fee of the top 10?

I know it's tough to calculate, since several of them also require staying on site, but I'm curious.

WW

[Wade Whitehead]

Did Donald Trump design L.A. National?  The list says so.

WW

[Richard Choi]

Who would honestly prefer to play Whistling Straights over Old Mac?

People who prefer lush, green grass?

I will say the list has a strong bias towards conditioning, at least in my opinion.

[Howard Riefs]

Bay Harbor in a top 100 let alone top 50 is egregious.

[Andy Troeger]

Who would honestly prefer to play Whistling Straights over Old Mac?

I would. Whistling Straits is far more interesting tee-to-green IMO. And the views of the lake more than offset the excess with the bunkers IMO.

[Mark Johnson]

My thoughts---


Way too high

BPB -- 6-- solid course, but not in the league of the rest of the top 15
Troon North -- 20  -- wouldnt be in my top 60;  not in my top 5 in its own state
Homestead cascades -24 --  i was bored with this course
Barton Creek -- 67-- is it even in the top 20 in Texas?


Way too low

Arcadia -- 28-- at least top 15 and remember i dont have a bias towards ocean courses
Wekopa Saguro 40 -- if you are into target golf, one of the best;   still not sure how cholla got ranked higher
May River -51-- one of the best in SC;  much more variety than your typical SC course;
Wynn -66--  take away the excesses it is very solid strategic course;  In several ways i actually like it better than shadow creek
Tullymore -83-

Way way too low

Irish Course --74 -- how the F#$@ it is this low; a great strategic inland test;   I generally enjoy this course better than WS
Giants Ridge (Quarry) --54--  fun interesting course with a ton of variety;  maybe low sample size is why it is so low?

[Frank Sullivan]

What's the average greens fee of the top 10?

I know it's tough to calculate, since several of them also require staying on site, but I'm curious.

WW

By my calculations (peak rates, not including lodging, caddies or carts) is comes out to approximately $301.50.  Pebble Beach tops the scale at $495, and Bethpage Black brings up the rear at $160...and the list doesn't include Shadow Creek

$301.50 + Cart/Caddie/Lodging depending on each course sure is steep.

[Wade Whitehead]

At $301 per, these are the Top 100 Courses [Most Of] You [Probably] Can['t] Play.

WW

[Dan King]

Magazines still exist? 

Cheers,
Dan King

A magazine is simply a device to induce people to read advertising.
 --James Collins

[Richard Choi]

In the top 20, Pine Barrens is by FAR the value leader with the peak rate of $110.

BPB comes in second at $150 and Chambers is third at $205 (though almost nobody pays that rate - you can go out with me tomorrow, prime time no less, for $115! )

Who would have thought $200/round is a bargain!!!?

[Jud_T]

Rustic Canyon is way too low at 91 IMO, not to mention one of the best values on the list.  Also, where the hell is Lawsonia?!  I'd rather play it than 90% of the courses listed.

[Jim Colton]

Have the published best in state previously? I'd call this a step in the positive direction until I clicked on Illinois and saw Orchard Valley 6th in state and Stonewall Orchard 9th.

Do they publish how they come up with their rankings? Is it an expert panel similar to their US/World list?

[Brent Carlson]

Where the heck is Wine Valley?  It's EASILY top 20. 

[Jason Thurman]

At $301 per, these are the Top 100 Courses [Most Of] You [Probably] Can['t] Play.

WW

That's ridiculous. Golf is an expensive hobby. But I don't know any employed golfers who can't budget $300 once in a while if they genuinely want to.

If you live a few miles NW of Milwaukee, you could play Erin Hills, Blackwolf Run River, Blackwolf Run Meadow Valleys, the Straits, and the Irish on a rotating basis monthly for less than most private clubs will cost you, particularly after initiation fees. Toss in Lawsonia at twilight every few months and you can use the money you saved to travel to Pebble, Pinehurst, etc every few years.

[Richard Choi]

No details on ranking criteria. I am guessing it is the same as the other lists.

The reader survey section is pretty interesting, though this is pretty disheartening for most of us here...

Q: Would you favor firmm, browned-out conditions at your public course if it led to lower greens fees?

A: 28% Yes, 72% No

[Andy Troeger]

Have the published best in state previously? I'd call this a step in the positive direction until I clicked on Illinois and saw Orchard Valley 6th in state and Stonewall Orchard 9th.

Do they publish how they come up with their rankings? Is it an expert panel similar to their US/World list?

I'm not sure about the "how" but they have had state lists for at least a couple cycles. I'm not sure they are any better or worse than GolfWeek's. Can't really compare to Digest since the state list there includes private clubs.

I do think the course really overemphasizes the already big name places which are often very expensive. Troon North has seen far better days by all accounts--there are far better courses in Arizona.

Wade,
I think Trump put his name on it, but I believe the course was originally a Pete Dye (or one of his sons?) design called Ocean Trails. I'm not sure other than the waterfalls whether much was done from the original. Its overrated now one way or the other!

[Ronald Montesano]

As long as there are trees, there will be magazines...

I like the Links 8 (forget the 9th hole) at Bay Harbor. I also liked the Quarry 9, so I have no problem with its inclusion...

I'd never turn down a chance to play Whistling Straits. I don't think that the point of the list is "you can play one or the other...choose or die!"

The most egregious listing is Shenendoah 3rd in New York State. The more I play it, the less I want to return. It is so boring, compared to kaluhyat and atunyote. There is a par three on the back, I think #17 or #16, that is all-world, but I think Rick Smith made a mistake when he designed it (how could he intentionally design such a good hole?)

My top baker's dozen publics I have played in NYS goes like this:

1. Bethpage Black
2. Bethpage Red
3. Atunyote
4. Leatherstocking
5. Tall Grass
6. Mark Twain (can't tell you how challenging it was at tournament speed for NYS Junior Am this week)
7. Seven Oaks
8. Links at Union Vale
9. Seneca Hickory Stick
10. Copake
11. Greystone
12. Mill Creek
13. Timber Banks

I don't value Saratoga National nearly as well as the raters do. Probably explains why I am not a rater. Same goes for Hiawatha's Landing and Ravenwood

I know that my good friend Jay Flemma loves Conklin, but I was not impressed enough (my one playing) to rank it top 20 in NYS. I'll have to get back to it again before I render a decision.

I am secure in the knowledge that Montauk Downs, The Sagamore, LI National and Pound Ridge would give my bottom four a run for their spaces on my list.

[Garland Bayley]

At $301 per, these are the Top 100 Courses [Most Of] You [Probably] Can['t] Play.

WW

That's ridiculous. Golf is an expensive hobby. But I don't know any employed golfers who can't budget $300 once in a while if they genuinely want to.

If you live a few miles NW of Milwaukee, you could play Erin Hills, Blackwolf Run River, Blackwolf Run Meadow Valleys, the Straits, and the Irish on a rotating basis monthly for less than most private clubs will cost you, particularly after initiation fees. Toss in Lawsonia at twilight every few months and you can use the money you saved to travel to Pebble, Pinehurst, etc every few years.

Bite me!

[Carl Rogers]

At $301 per, these are the Top 100 Courses [Most Of] You [Probably] Can['t] Play.

WW

Agreed! ... There should be a second list for courses under $50.

[Mark Johnson]

Minnesota's list is pretty much in the ballpark.

I would have made a couple tweaks towards the bottom of the list, but nothing major.   (Replaced Legends with Rush Creek and maybe Chaska with the Preserve)

[Mark Johnson]

one more...  Bethpage Red at #17 in New York is a joke.

[Adam Clayman]

It's my understanding they have a separate panel for this list.

[Jud_T]

If you live a few miles NW of Milwaukee, you could play Erin Hills, Blackwolf Run River, Blackwolf Run Meadow Valleys, the Straits, and the Irish on a rotating basis monthly for less than most private clubs will cost you, particularly after initiation fees.

You could.  Why you'd want to is beyond me...