[Frank Pont]

Frank,

A holes:

1. a good solid start from the back tees (never played the yellows). Requires a nice drive to get a good shot to the green with anything other than a long iron.
2. semi weak par 5, long straight and no frills, space waster.
3. back up hill, into the wind most of the time. Tough hole to pick the right club.
4. Good short hole with a visually tight drive even through there is more space to the right. I also like the approach which is often semi blind and tricky to judge.
5. Nice driving hole, lot's of space, need to have a fairly long drive to get a good shot at the green which is a bit tricky falling offer everywhere.
6. Waste of space, corny hole I think is weak.
7-9. all excellent holes

B. 1-4 are all decent holes. 5-7 are dull usage of the flat unspectacular ground. 8 is a decent par 3 with a tricky long narrow green. 9 is a really nice finishing hole but a shame that you have to play 5-7 to get there.

C. 1-3 are in my opinion more wasted space. 4-9 are decent although I'm not a fan of 6 at all which seems out of place a bit and manufactured, especially in comparison to 8 which is brilliant and the other par 3's. 7 is one of the funnest driving holes I've seen. 9 is a decent finishing hole.

that's my quick opinion without going into green complexes etc. I definitely think A holes need to be cleaned out significantly in terms of over growth but it's also much better than it was a couple years ago.

In short I'm not a fan of any of the holes that make use of the large flat areas. I've also played them in competition and match play as well. None had any significant effect on the events in high wind or light wind except B8 and B9.

If for example I go through Royal Hague or Noordwijkse, no holes are on the dull use of space side, granted that's also a topography issue. The archies just had better land to work with. Even so I would of liked to see how Colt would of routed the A9 in it's entirety to be honest. I'd love to know how he would of solved the issues I have with A2 and A6 for example.

In any case add that up and that's why I think the KLM Routing is by far the best and also why I think they really do need all 27 holes to make a solid routing that competes with the best in NL yet still comes up just short.

Sorry David, but you can not be serious about giving an opinion about A vs BC "without going into greencomplexes". This is one of the major differences between the basic Pennink greens on A2-8 and the Colt greens on the other holes.

Another big difference the very sparse Pennink bunkering, or lack of, on the A holes is very different from BC.

Your comment about A2 is an interesting one, if Colt would have built the hole it would have had more strategy on the drive, second and third shot and would have had a more more interesting and sophisticated green complex. To be blunt, Pennink was not in the same league as Colt & Co.

In general it seems you like more "exciting" terrain like Noordwijk, Bllybunion and R Hague more than the traditional links land like TOC and Kennemr BC, which is fine, but it is a very subjective position.

I do share your view that R Hague and Noordwijk are better than Kennemer, but just get there via a very different way.

[Paul_Turner]

 I really dislike the clubs A,B, C naming of the 9s... and why the newest 9 is named "A" is beyond me.

David

I'll defend those holes:

C1:  I think we’re just on different wavelengths regarding this hole.  Fun is good and any shot that leaks right is in trouble.  I think for a modern pro, and perhaps good amateurs, it’s an easy par, but for the typical club player it’s plenty challenging and exctiting.  My bet is that less than 50% of the BUDA players make par.



C2.  This hole is a bit of a sleeper.  The pin is often tucked to the left and the green feeds away and to the left.  So the fun shot is to bank the approach in from right to left.  Perhaps the green was bigger would benefit from being slightly expanded?





C3. Maybe not spectacular but I don’t have a problem with this hole either.  The fairway is slightly offset and it’s worth hugging the right hand side if the pin is tucked left. Plateau green is well guarded too.




C6  It wasn’t sarcasm,  The Nazis built a gun turret on the green.  It’ s a bit hard to make out from old pics but the green did look less sharp edged  before the war.  The hole forces a lofted shot on a windy links…so it's pretty difficult and a spectacular green site.

B5.  I guess the hole is flat compared with most holes at Hague and Noordwijske but I wouldn't consider it as "perfectly flat" anymore than I would the 9th at De Pan.  The tucked pin position:  





B6 with offset fairway and a decent green site.   It did have a big cross fairway bunker a long time ago, I think cut into that ridge in the second photo... that might add some visual interest and strategy.



B7 blind tee shot:

Turbo kick forward if you land on that ridge on the right:


The green has a small roll up near the back.

[David Davis]

Frank,

I agree with your greens argument 100% at Kennemer and there is no doubt Colt was more talented than Pennink. No arguments here. I suppose that would bring about a different discussion however, as in this day and age I'm of the opinion that a great shaper is everything and the shaper's ability in addition to the architects ability is what makes green complexes great. I'm not sure if I'd go as far to say that I think the green complexes are great at Kennemer, some are indeed very good and interesting. Do you know how involved Colt was for example in the shaping of his greens and how that relates to Pennink and how involved he was. I've always had the idea they were working on shoestring budgets so perhaps they did it largely themselves with the help of their crews?

Paul,

Nice pictures, they look pretty recent, maybe last year? The course seems to be very lush and grown in there. Kind of like last summer which was a bit extreme.

C2. 430 meters wind behind most of the time. I think most people have no choice if they can reach that green at all to role in up. It suits a role up quite well and for someone that smashed the drive a mile and was able to approach with say a 5 iron they would still have to land it short and run it up as other wise the ball would roll off the back of the green I think.

The way you talk about it I guess you are a very high level golfer.

C1. You may be right. I don't know the level of everyone joining and a blind shot hole for the first time is never really easy. If the usual wind is present which is a helping cross wind from left to right then I wouldn't be surprised if some people lose is right as you suggest.

Last year during competition in the morning I hit driver to the right of the green and chipped a 52 degree on in the morning and in the afternoon I hit 6 iron then a full wedge if I'm not mistaken. Both times, same result. Par. The first 3 holes of C were irrelevant both time. We all played par, bogey, par and the match didn't become interesting until C4.

I will say that I'd prefer to see A2 replaced with C2, that would be an improvement. Also wouldn't mind seeing A6 replaced with B7. That would greatly improve even the KLM routing which is still in my opinion by far the best routing they can come up with.

[David Davis]

I wanted to come back on this since I had shown photos and discussed the new back tees on our 18th hole, lengthening the hole to around 400 meters from the back tees. We have now finished the renovation work. I have to say it looks really nice. Even the redo of the women's tees and the men's medal tees is a large improvement aesthetically. The new back tee makes the hole a quite challenging final hole. I'm hoping that we only utilize it when it makes sense. Creating length as a matter of being able to have an array of course set ups and variations is likely a good thing. Simply setting the course up to play at it's longest all the time would be disappointing IMO. Photos were taken Sunday the 23rd of Dec.

[Ruediger Meyer]

David,

what's the distance to the bunkers in the small dogleg from the back tees?

[David Davis]

David,

what's the distance to the bunkers in the small dogleg from the back tees?

Ruediger,

I think it's 250 - 260 meters, there are a couple bunkers there. I don't know the measurement off hand to the meter to each. There is a bit of a swale that kicks the balls forward about 15 meters short of the bunkers. The tendency is for people to block, fade, slice balls in that direction (from the medal tees). Also the prevailing wind is a cross wind from left to right that slight helps. Prevailing = 42% of the time.

[Ruediger Meyer]

Sounds good, maybe I can espace them from there... 

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