Philly Open scoring

[Mark Chaplin]

A few interesting things from the 1st round. Best score so far  +1 and he doubled 10.

Easiest holes in order 12 (4.056), 6, 1 and 8

Hardest three are 5 (3.803), 18 and 4.

The 7th is ranked 9 and playing 630 & the 15th is ranked 4 and playing 612, where is the 612yd tee?

No eagles and average score is 78.5

[JSlonis]

Mark,

The 612 tee on #15 is behind and a bit to the right of the 14th green.

A couple things jump out at me by looking at the stats for the first round.  I'm very surprised that the first hole was among the easiest in relation to par and that the 18th was among the toughest.  No surprise that 12 is the easiest and that 4 & 5 are the hardest.

***Just saw updated stats:  18th hole now playing the toughest.  Very surprised to see that, with one of the widest fairways and biggest greens on the course.

[Joe Bausch]

There is a nice map of the course here:

http://www.gapgolf.org/pdf/2012_pine_valley_map_with_tee_times.pdf

[Jason Walker]

Mark,

The 612 tee on #15 is behind and a bit to the right of the 14th green.

A couple things jump out at me by looking at the stats for the first round.  I'm very surprised that the first hole was among the easiest in relation to par and that the 18th was among the toughest.  No surprise that 12 is the easiest and that 4 & 5 are the hardest.

***Just saw updated stats:  18th hole now playing the toughest.  Very surprised to see that, with one of the widest fairways and biggest greens on the course.

Watched a few groups today go through 18, half the players were in the right woods, one of which turned into a lost ball and then a second ball into the woods as well....some big numbers in a short amount of time.

[Jim Franklin]

Mark,

The 612 tee on #15 is behind and a bit to the right of the 14th green.

A couple things jump out at me by looking at the stats for the first round.  I'm very surprised that the first hole was among the easiest in relation to par and that the 18th was among the toughest.  No surprise that 12 is the easiest and that 4 & 5 are the hardest.

***Just saw updated stats:  18th hole now playing the toughest.  Very surprised to see that, with one of the widest fairways and biggest greens on the course.

It is quite a long carry to get to the fairway on 18 from the back tee. I can see some big numbers from some shorter hitters causing the overall stroke average to soar. 15 is the toughest par 5 I have played.

[Mark McKeever]

Not surprised about 4 and 5.  In looking at some specific cards, 3 looks like it's causing some trouble as well. 

Mark

[Mark Chaplin]

I made the fairway off the back tee on 18 on my last visit and it is a tidy carry. The big one is 4, off the regular tee I knocked it within a couple of yards of the run out and had a short iron to the green, off the super back tee it's a massive tee shot just to see the green.

1242 yards for two par 5s must be as long as any course anywhere.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

Pine Tree has two that measure 1,286

Jamie,

There wasn't much roll last week and the wind direction and velocity along with hole location, especially on # 1, can influence scoring.

It would be interesting to know the yardage each hole played at.
Especially # 14.
I can't imagine it played all the way back and wasn't amongst the hardest.

Knowing Wind direction and velocity would also help understand playing conditions, along with Stimp speed

[Joe Bausch]

Looks like +4 is the winner.  A young amateur from Huntingdon Valley.  Congrats Andrew Mason!

[archie_struthers]

 

I'll get the skinny from the loopers today. They must have set it up pretty hard as no one save Andrew Mason was anywhere near par.

Mark Sheftic , teaching pro at Merion , and a fine player, had it -1 going to 18 in round two and doubled. Must have been into the wind, like Jamie I'm a bit surprised it played so difficult.  Green speeds have been fairly benign , so it's just really hard from the new back tees, no matter how good the players . Four is so much harder from the new tee!  Still wish they would take out the bunkers on the right corner of the dogleg , they are beautifully done but too penal IMHO, probably more impactful from  the daily tees.

Back later with more info, another beautiful day here at the jersey shore!

[John Shimony]

14 was not playing from the back tees but the pin was way back left.  200 yds.

[John Shimony]

The most intimidating tee shots were at the 4th (490 yds, uphill tee shot) and 18 (about 250 yds to reach the fairway).

[Doug Braunsdorf]

John,

  I am sorry I didn't see you yesterday--where were you working?  I was with the 1:20 afternoon group off 1 (15 mins. delayed) as walking scorer.  

  I ran into Jason Mandel and Mike Malone on 4.  

  My group hit approaches to 18, we were crossing the small access road before the green when the horn sounded, so I didn't stay around.  

[Mark McKeever]

Where's Colbert??  We need the scoop from the source.

BTW, nice work on a pair of 75's!


Mark

[John Shimony]

Doug, I was the walking scorer for the 7:30 am group off of the 9th tee.  We had a great morning and early afternoon.  I saw some excellent golf and some not so excellent golf in my group.  But the course was a brute.  Chris Roselle called it the longest 6900 yard course he ever saw, and he is certainly correct based on the courses that I have seen.  The greens were fast but not lightning fast given the recent heat I suppose.  One of the competitors I was with was a great guy who gave me his thoughts throughout the round.  He said there is just no let up in that course.

[Chris Roselle]

Mark,

Pine Tree has two that measure 1,286

Jamie,

There wasn't much roll last week and the wind direction and velocity along with hole location, especially on # 1, can influence scoring.

It would be interesting to know the yardage each hole played at.
Especially # 14.
I can't imagine it played all the way back and wasn't amongst the hardest.

Knowing Wind direction and velocity would also help understand playing conditions, along with Stimp speed

Pat, we did not set #14 all the way back.  We played in that way on Sunday during our course setup and it wasn't what we were looking for.  It played 200 yards in round 1 and 190 yards in round 2.  Hole location was 16 paces on and 9 from the left.  We had an absolutely fabulous weekend!.  Played the course on Sunday from all the way back and it was the most enjoyable round of golf I have ever played where I didn't break 80.  Such an examination of all parts of the game and I hope the competitors yesterday enjoyed the day as much as I did.  

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Chris, I thought the setup was well done and fair. 

I liked the hole location on 3, and the penalty for missing left.  John Allen did get up and down for par there. 

The golf course really did offer a lot of width and options. 

John, you must have been finished and left prior to me, I arrived about 1pm and checked in, ate lunch, and went out. 

I'll write some more later today--work is more important now!

[Brian Colbert]

Finally able to get to a computer after the Open. What a day! Any questions about setup go ahead and fire away.

[Sean Leary]

Brian,

How much harder was it than a typical member day (assuming you have played it before)? Nice playing.

[Brian Colbert]

Sean,

The difference was minimal. I had only played it one time before and even if the markers were not on the "championship" tees we played them anyway. I would say they showcased the greens by putting the pins in some of the more difficult spots out there. In all I would guess if I played there again today I would be right around the same number. Except I know I wouldn't go long on 10 with the pin in the back!

[Mike Hendren]

What was the average time to complete a round in this competition?

[Ed Brzezowski]

I believe the time allowed was 4:40, from the time sheets I had. Morning times were fairly close, when the wind came up in the late afternoon that went south.
 
What do the players think about the hole location on 2???  I saw 5 four putts up there, anyone over the green seemed to have some real issues with coming back up the slope.

During the rain delay I heard a great quote " it's the happiest 80 I ever shot". I think the players, and fans, loved it. Even the pro shop prices seemed reasonable. All in all a great day.

Rosie what are you doing online during working hours???

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I believe the time allowed was 4:40, from the time sheets I had. Morning times were fairly close, when the wind came up in the late afternoon that went south.
 
What do the players think about the hole location on 2???  I saw 5 four putts up there, anyone over the green seemed to have some real issues with coming back up the slope.

During the rain delay I heard a great quote " it's the happiest 80 I ever shot". I think the players, and fans, loved it. Even the pro shop prices seemed reasonable. All in all a great day.

Rosie what are you doing online during working hours???

Ed,  
  
  I thought the hole locations were well-thought and reasonable.  

I didn't see any 4-putts on 2 in my group; the one player (Hugo) made birdie from one of the left FW bunkers.  Hell of a shot.  

3 was reasonable, could bite you if you went after it and didn't succeed.  

Allen parred 4 after searching for 2nd shot.  All-world par.  

5 had more room than I remember.  

8 is a puckering second shot. More puckering third shot if you miss long.  

12 reminded me more and more of GCGC #1 since I was here last.  

13 offered options on the second shot.  

15 was an interesting location, considering the prevailing slope of the green, but the small rise/slope tying in on the right side made for a tricky read, I think the putt was pretty straight.  

17 seemed to break uphill.  Wtf?  Is it just me?  (of course, all of us would have stuffed it to 2' and made bird.  Right.)
17 was a lot more uphill than I remember.  

18...wow, those back tees seemed like they were set in a cave!  Is there daylight back there?!  Good story from one of the caddies in our group (Jamie) about looping for Zach and Mickelson there, on 18.  

It was neat to hear the trains roll by once or twice in the afternoon.  

Overall, it seemed like you could get to the holes, if you were on the wrong side, you're done, if you play safe, you can get to them, may have to work a little bit, but going after holes (ex. #3, 8, 10, 15) will really bite you if you miss.  

I think syringing the greens kept them a little more in check than normal, which I feel was smart, considering the heat.  Big thanks to the golf course staff, I made sure I talked to them when possible and told them "great job". 

  

[Bill Shotzbarger]

Doug, I was the walking scorer for the 7:30 am group off of the 9th tee.  We had a great morning and early afternoon.  I saw some excellent golf and some not so excellent golf in my group.  But the course was a brute.  Chris Roselle called it the longest 6900 yard course he ever saw, and he is certainly correct based on the courses that I have seen.  The greens were fast but not lightning fast given the recent heat I suppose.  One of the competitors I was with was a great guy who gave me his thoughts throughout the round.  He said there is just no let up in that course.

So you must have been with my buddy Matt Kreuter! I assume some of the "not so excellent golf" came from him...

Sorry I missed you guys but luckily I've already seen PVGC from a players' perspective.

Congrats to Andrew Mason, he is a really nice kid. We used to caddy at Squires together and he would drive me home. The caddie master used to say "if that kid could learn how to putt....." well it's apparent that he did!!

[Ed Brzezowski]

I really enjoy going there as a  volunteer or as a player. Everytime you seem to discover something new or a greater appreciation of what has always been there. Got to stand in the middle of two at 630 am. no one around except for a few birds and a deer or two. Checked the hole location and what a view, sun coming up, nice little breeze. A religious experience???

Maybe they need a small insurance office on premise??

Now on topic I was surprised at the workout the right hand bunkers got on one. In the morning I can only recall a few groups where one or more tee shots did not end up in there. We even had 4 lost balls in the area with four people watching the shots. I was really surprised at that.