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jeffwarne

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Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2012, 01:26:32 PM »
It's the UK's Torrey Pines.  I have never witnessed such a boring course.
 

Not true, if you were to play there it is highly unlikely you would be paired with both a black and Asian golfer. The green fee is probably well south of $237 too.

No Pete's it north of $237, but they do have nice weekend dormym dinner, golf, and lunch deal for about $400
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 01:28:42 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2012, 01:33:34 PM »
P.S. to Anthony Butler - I had dinner with Brent Snedeker when he played in the Kiwi Challenge at Cape Kidnappers three years ago; he was down there on his honeymoon.  He IS a lucky guy, and he is one of the few Tour players I've met who seems to appreciate that. 

Tom,

Of course he's a lucky guy... he travels around the world playing golf for a living. And, if I read your comments correctly, like most of the successful young pros married out his league looks-wise.

Nothing I said was taking a jab at him personally. I have known several people over the years who went to Vanderbilt including my room mate in San Francisco and they were all outstanding people.

That said, his long game did come a little unglued on the way back into the clubhouse and he was lucky that his errant shots escaped penalty... whenever he's playing well he seems to have a streak of luck with him. No doubt it will all even out by Sunday evening. Particularly if they get some wind which will add to the challenge and speed the course up a little.

From what I've seen so far, I think Adam Scott has even been stronger tee to green through the full 36... he probably needs to b,e as his short game is a tick below Snedeker's most of the time. If the wind blows Scott should be favored... he was outstanding in the wind when he won the Australian Open at NSW in 2009, although he was using his regular putter back then.

 
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Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2012, 01:50:25 PM »
P.S. to Anthony Butler - I had dinner with Brent Snedeker when he played in the Kiwi Challenge at Cape Kidnappers three years ago; he was down there on his honeymoon.  He IS a lucky guy, and he is one of the few Tour players I've met who seems to appreciate that. 


That said, his long game did come a little unglued on the way back into the clubhouse and he was lucky that his errant shots escaped penalty... whenever he's playing well he seems to have a streak of luck with him. No doubt it will all even out by Sunday evening. Particularly if they get some wind which will add to the challenge and speed the course up a little.



Anthony:

Snedeker's hit 31 of 36 greens so far (compared to a field average of about 21 so far), so whatever he's doing off the tees is working, luck or no luck. He has not struck me as having inordinate amounts of luck so far, relative to anyone else, Scott included.


Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2012, 02:00:35 PM »
P.S. to Anthony Butler - I had dinner with Brent Snedeker when he played in the Kiwi Challenge at Cape Kidnappers three years ago; he was down there on his honeymoon.  He IS a lucky guy, and he is one of the few Tour players I've met who seems to appreciate that.  


That said, his long game did come a little unglued on the way back into the clubhouse and he was lucky that his errant shots escaped penalty... whenever he's playing well he seems to have a streak of luck with him. No doubt it will all even out by Sunday evening. Particularly if they get some wind which will add to the challenge and speed the course up a little.



Anthony:

Snedeker's hit 31 of 36 greens so far (compared to a field average of about 21 so far), so whatever he's doing off the tees is working, luck or no luck. He has not struck me as having inordinate amounts of luck so far, relative to anyone else, Scott included.

Are you a relative? Never mind, it's meant to blow 30mph on Sunday so if he's on top at the end of 72, luck will have nothing to do with it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 02:25:44 PM by Anthony Butler »
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Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2012, 02:26:45 PM »
Anthony:

No -- you just seem to have a distorted view of the role that "luck" plays in a given round of golf, particularly a given round of golf on a links course. Snedeker just tied the 36-hole scoring record for the Open championship -- which involves mostly skill, it seems, moreso than luck.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2012, 03:51:34 PM »
Sean - No love for West Lancs? I find it the most natural of the NW links, Formby is lovely and Hillside a disappointment.
Cave Nil Vino

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2012, 04:25:03 PM »
Anybody that calls Nashvegas home is lucky.  Go Sneds.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2012, 05:23:38 PM »
Given the quantity of rain the UK has experienced this year, we CURRENTLY have NO Links golf course in this country. Although, it must be said they're all only two weeks of constant sunshine away.

best,
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2012, 05:38:04 PM »
Tiger Woods' behavior on the golf course is reprehensible, especially since he's probably the only good golfer in the history of the world who has ever gotten upset about a bad golf shot.

Wait, wrong thread.  Sorry guys.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2012, 09:18:34 PM »
I just heard the Walker Cub will be her ein 2015. What a wonderful course for the guys. I have no doubt they will get the full links experience at St Annes.

Joe_Tucholski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2012, 12:13:36 AM »
My wife made two comments today while we watched The Open and I'm posting both of them on GCA.  She said it looked like half the course was linksland and half wasn't.  It did bring up a good question.  When does the transition from linksland to non-linksland occur.  At a course like Spyglass the contrast is obvious (if the dunes at Spy are in fact linksland). 

Here's an old link to the topic I thought was a good read and basically left me thinking there is no real answer as to when linksland becomes non-linksland.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,369.0/wap2.html

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2012, 12:27:08 AM »
On the ESPN coverage there was a comment that went something like "back in the 90s the course was much closer to the sea".  What is the story behind that - did they fill in the land south of the RR tracks or was this a natural occurrence.

FYI, here is the link to the course on Google Maps
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Royal+Lytham+%26+Saint+Annes+Golf+Club,+Fylde+District,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=53.746985,-3.009224&spn=0.020125,0.042872&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=45.192091,87.802734&oq=royal+lytham+&hq=Royal+Lytham+%26+Saint+Annes+Golf+Club,+Fylde+District,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=15

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2012, 12:56:46 AM »
Joe,I have wondered the same about Carnoustie. It seems like the ninth hole might be a little different soil and is the farthest Inland.I like Lytham ,especially the bunkers and the back nine change of direction.If the houses weren't so close it would feel bigger. HD tv shows the land movement much better.

Ted Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2012, 01:37:27 AM »
On the ESPN coverage there was a comment that went something like "back in the 90s the course was much closer to the sea".  What is the story behind that - did they fill in the land south of the RR tracks or was this a natural occurrence.

FYI, here is the link to the course on Google Maps
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Royal+Lytham+%26+Saint+Annes+Golf+Club,+Fylde+District,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=53.746985,-3.009224&spn=0.020125,0.042872&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=45.192091,87.802734&oq=royal+lytham+&hq=Royal+Lytham+%26+Saint+Annes+Golf+Club,+Fylde+District,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=15


Yes apparently it was closer and to be accurate they were talking about the 1890's

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2012, 02:14:06 AM »
I like it. Maybe a little different...... It might be considered boring because it doesn't seem to have a particularly famous standout hole or landmark..... there's no postage stamp or an Ailsa Craig. A par-3 first hole.... yeah that's a little strange.

Has a good leaderboard so far..... and a terrific list of past winners.

I'd certainly play it if I got the chance.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Joey Chase

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2012, 03:52:50 AM »
I loved playing Lytham, and the Dormy House was pretty cool to stay in then as well.  The course is full of solid hole after solid hole.  Some of the coolest bunkering on a links course I've seen.  No question that it should be in the rotation.  Maybe has the least attractive surroundings of all of the Open courses, but I would go back in a second given the opportunity.  It's too bad the wet weather has affected the course/tournament so much. 

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2012, 06:52:01 AM »
Anthony:

No -- you just seem to have a distorted view of the role that "luck" plays in a given round of golf, particularly a given round of golf on a links course. Snedeker just tied the 36-hole scoring record for the Open championship -- which involves mostly skill, it seems, moreso than luck.

Golf Channel just stated that he is tops in GIR yet in the bottom half of the field in fairways hit...  Considering the usual result from missing a fairway at Lytham that qualifies as luck in my book. Luck that Snedeker has so far had the skill to take advantage of.

As they say Phil, you're entitled to your opinion... just not your own facts.
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Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2012, 07:13:29 AM »
Anthony:

No -- you just seem to have a distorted view of the role that "luck" plays in a given round of golf, particularly a given round of golf on a links course. Snedeker just tied the 36-hole scoring record for the Open championship -- which involves mostly skill, it seems, moreso than luck.

Golf Channel just stated that he is tops in GIR yet in the bottom half of the field in fairways hit...  Considering the usual result from missing a fairway at Lytham that qualifies as luck in my book. Luck that Snedeker has so far had the skill to take advantage of.

As they say Phil, you're entitled to your opinion... just not your own facts.


Anthony:

Can you provide any statistics relative to this championship regarding, e.g., the percentage of fairways hit vs. percentage of greens in regulation for the field vs. Snedeker? If not, you're argument based on the construct of "the usual result from missing a fairway" falls flat.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2012, 10:15:02 AM »
Martin - I disagree this year has perfect links conditions. Some years are bone dry, F&F with whispy rough and hard greens. Others are softer, greener and slower, this year is the later. The pleasure of the links is conditions are never the same, day to day or year to year.
Cave Nil Vino

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2012, 10:22:28 AM »
Golf Channel just stated that he is tops in GIR yet in the bottom half of the field in fairways hit...  Considering the usual result from missing a fairway at Lytham that qualifies as luck in my book.

And this is fact, not opinion?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2012, 10:25:38 AM »
Anthony:

No -- you just seem to have a distorted view of the role that "luck" plays in a given round of golf, particularly a given round of golf on a links course. Snedeker just tied the 36-hole scoring record for the Open championship -- which involves mostly skill, it seems, moreso than luck.

Golf Channel just stated that he is tops in GIR yet in the bottom half of the field in fairways hit...  Considering the usual result from missing a fairway at Lytham that qualifies as luck in my book. Luck that Snedeker has so far had the skill to take advantage of.

As they say Phil, you're entitled to your opinion... just not your own facts.


Anthony:

Can you provide any statistics relative to this championship regarding, e.g., the percentage of fairways hit vs. percentage of greens in regulation for the field vs. Snedeker? If not, you're argument based on the construct of "the usual result from missing a fairway" falls flat.

I'm pretty sure the Golf Channel consults Shot Link stats before they make these kinds of statements on-air... I also assume you're simply asking for this data to prevent acknowledging my original point... Yes, we all know Snedeker is a skillful player, that's why he's in the field. The fact is anyone who has missed that many fairways and remains the leader in GIR and on the scoreboard has also enjoyed some luck in terms of where all those missed tee shots have ended up.

If you have any evidence to contradict this statement from the recognized authority in the golf reporting business, get off your lazy behind and find it.
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Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2012, 10:27:33 AM »
Golf Channel just stated that he is tops in GIR yet in the bottom half of the field in fairways hit...  Considering the usual result from missing a fairway at Lytham that qualifies as luck in my book.

And this is fact, not opinion?

Facts that contradict your view of the world are still facts...

From the British Open Official Site:

Brandt Snedeker-Greens in Regulation (thru 36 holes): 86%
Field Average: 60%

Brandt Snedeker-Fairways Hit (thru 36 holes): 60%
Field Average: 63%
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 10:33:03 AM by Anthony Butler »
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2012, 10:34:38 AM »
JNC, regarding trees, bushes and such, linkslamd can have although we prefer it not to on a course. Typically, vegetation of all sorts is / was planted to trap the sand. In other words, most all the vegetation you see is there because of man and is not a vegative indicator / contraindicator of linksland.

Regardless, beware the furze.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2012, 10:56:03 AM »
Stats are facts, the conclusion that he's the luckiest golfer around is opinion.

3% difference in fairways hit is 1 whopping fairway.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Ted Cahill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Lytham and St. Anne's a Links Course?
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2012, 11:59:38 AM »
Put me in the camp of those who are impressed watching Lytham on TV.  This is the first Open that I have watched that has been held at this course.  I like the understated look of it- and I love how it's smack in the middle of the neighborhood- being hard against the ocean is overated.  I am so smitten with the look and feel of the broadcast- i am scheming to organize a Lancashire golf trip next spring- Lytham, Birkdale, Hoylake and Foamby- along with the feel of gritty, working class England- thats the ticket for me. 
“Bandon Dunes is like Chamonix for skiers or the
North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is
where those who really care end up.”