[Kris Shreiner]

RD's clubhouse, though older, has a rightness about it. This is especially true when one considers it really is the epitome of what a "country club" should be. I would emphasize the word "country," because even today, it is quite a quaint, rural place. It needs NO monument. The facilites, with some tasteful updating periodically (which hasn't always happened from this members view), are more than comfortable.

As has been mentioned, the clubhouse is lightly used for a MAJORITY of the year. One doesn't build some monstrosity or garish structure when it is TOTALLY unnecessary. The current edifice, and the course, has always hosted plenty of quality tournaments, and the occasional amateur "biggie," which are presented in the understated, classy manner for which the club is known.

Some members, usually incomers who don't recognize where they are, have made continued pleas for the financial debacle that a large, new clubhouse would produce. The club is NOT awash in money! It has only gotten a healthy reserve just these last few years, after the economic downturn reduced visitor revenue, following some LARGE sums which prior were spent on the Struie course, for four holes that have proved to be a disappointment. They ended up costing: too much, are flood-prone(which was known from the outset), and were FAR too hard for most of the older and younger members that played it!

The Struie, a great little alterrnate to the stiffer test of the top course, is an excellent place for: the young, more senior players, and others wanting to learn, practice or simply enjoy some more relaxed golf. It NEVER should be allowed to again become even more of a money pit than the previous, costly experiment proved to be. It is ...what it should be. Keep it in the same tidy nick it usually is in...AND LEAVE IT ALONE.

I must give well deserved kudos to Iain Riddle, the fine head keeper of the greens at RD, as well as General Manager Neil Hampton and all the rest of the RD staff. Thanks to the team's effort, RD is on a solid path to sustaining its reputation as a superb golf experience. We can always strive to get that wee bit better, and they are tireless to that end. Well done.

Cheers,
Kris

[Philip Gawith]

I have had many visits to Dornoch clubhouse and it is entirely fit for purpose. Anything grander would actually be discordant with the overall tone of RDGC which is very modest/ down to earth. The next door hotel was recently renovated very nicely and is a welcome addition to the town's rather modest food and accommodation offering.

[Robin_Hiseman]

Kris
Had the original vision for the Struie been realised, I doubt you or I would be as disappointed as we are.  Just to correct you though.  The Struie redesign included five new holes, alterations to five others, the creation of a 3-hole practice course and the realignment of the burn through the course, not just four holes as you state.  It was done for relatively little cost, as it was built entirely using on site materials and a local contractor.
When I last saw it a couple of years ago I was disappointed with how the original, highly strategic design had been decimated.   It was sad to see.
Rich is right.  A really good additional 27 holes is possible.  The land is there for an excellent second course with a terrific 9-hole 'village' course using the original Struie holes.  What is there now is a bit of a patchwork and does not satisfy as a cohesive design though the 10th green may still be the nicest spot on the whole Dornoch property.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Thanks Robin

[Kris Shreiner]

Robin,


If pigs could fly... Sorry, I missed a hole (they are that memorable).  Did you work on the project? Sure, there was some other work done that I didn't include in my remarks. You may be right about what you state in additional work on more holes. I DIDN"T SEE MUCH GAIN...AT ALL...from any of it. As to the cost, IT WAS NOT CHEAP! The ground is STILL floodprone, AND ALWAYS WILL BE. The reworked burn STILL overflows its containment walls. I can't remember the exact figures, but there was a SUBSTANCIAL amount of ADDITIONAL money required to "FIX" some poor drainage and other issues on some of those new holes.

As a member, with respect for my club, I'll not comment further here on the financials. I'd love to talk with you, via IM or phone to learn more. It WAS a waste. RD DOES NOT need more golf holes...or better?...golf holes there. It IS a wonderful, SMALL, rural village club. That is what it should remain. NOT some megaplex for golf with a Nairn-style(couldn't resist) palace. The season is too short, and the place too remote in an area which gets RUGGED Winter weather, to EVER justify spending still more money...ON THE DEAD LOSER that additional holes would constitute.

My late father-in-law, long-time town physician Dr. John Macleod, who lived in Dornoch since early childhood, and was a member: over 50 years, past Captain of the club, and author of the book on the club's history, shared a line with me about RD which I'll never forget, "Often Kris, it's not what you DO that counts the most in the success of a club, it's what you DON'T do that matters most."  
TOO RIGHT DR. JOHN, TOO RIGHT!

He also pointed out, having lived through several of them, that events like Lockerbie (or 9-11 shortly after his passing)and sharp economic downturns all conspire to put severe financial pressure on smaller, rural clubs in Scotland..no matter HOW GREAT the course. That is why he ALWAYS urged caution on making large capital outlays, and a continuation of the understated, classy manner that the club has strived for in conducting its affairs.

Cheers,
Kris

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,

RD did have the chance to buy the hotel next door but chose not to for what ever reason. I find the clubhouse perfectly suitable for its purpose so why change.

CS's clubhouse is very reminiscent of Birkdale's and is perfect for its purpose.

I was down at RD last week and Iain and his team have both courses in great condition.

Jon

[Ulrich Mayring]

As has been mentioned, the clubhouse is lightly used for a MAJORITY of the year.

And you don't suppose this might have something to do with it not being an especially attractive place to hang out in?

A real clubhouse is one that is always full of members, a place where you meet friends and where visitors are welcomed on equal terms. The course may be empty in inclement weather, the clubhouse never.

Also if you take almost a hundred pounds off a visitor to play the course, then the image of a "quaint rural place" or "modest village club" isn't appropriate anymore. As aren't the facilities.

Ulrich

[Jon Wiggett]

As has been mentioned, the clubhouse is lightly used for a MAJORITY of the year.

And you don't suppose this might have something to do with it not being an especially attractive place to hang out in?

A real clubhouse is one that is always full of members, a place where you meet friends and where visitors are welcomed on equal terms. The course may be empty in inclement weather, the clubhouse never.

Also if you take almost a hundred pounds off a visitor to play the course, then the image of a "quaint rural place" or "modest village club" isn't appropriate anymore. As aren't the facilities.

Ulrich

Ulrich,

why not say that to the club captain at RD and see how far you get with that

Jon

[Sean_A]

Sean,

RD did have the chance to buy the hotel next door but chose not to for what ever reason. I find the clubhouse perfectly suitable for its purpose so why change.

CS's clubhouse is very reminiscent of Birkdale's and is perfect for its purpose.

I was down at RD last week and Iain and his team have both courses in great condition.

Jon

Jon

I honestly don't care if RD wants a shoebox or a palace for a house.  My only thinking on the matter was that hotel will stay afloat only because the course is next door.  It seems a shame to give away money that the club could have.  It was an opportunity that wasn't taken - which is fair enough.  But if that opportunity wasn't taken, I can't see the sense of building a new house which won't offer the same chance of economic return as the hotel/house would have.  As a member, no way would I want a new house just because the old house is lame - and Dornoch's is lame.  If I were to okay a large investment, it would be an investment with a good chance of a return, not just to say we have nice house.

Ciao

[Steve Salmen]

It should be noted that the food served in the clubhouse is excellent.  A new clubhouse will not make the food better, nor will it compete with existing businesses.

On several occasions I've seen the upstairs packed with members and visitors alike, both during the day and in the evening.

When Mr. Duncan retired, I applied for the job of secretary.  My platform was three things: 1. Work some kind of deal to get the road closed during summer golfing hours. 2. Try to build a golf course in the dunes below the 16th green.  This would have required that the club purchase the caravan park and possibly the airstrip. 3. Do whatever it takes to secure a Walker Cup. 

Needless to say, I did not get hired, blew out my trading account, and now manage apartment buildings on the South Side of Chicago. 

[Angela Moser]

love your comparison george pazin!!!

[James Boon]

For me, the current clubhouse works just fine. If they were to redecorate maybe that wouldn't go amiss, or (without knowing the full internal layout myself) perhaps a bit of reorganising of the internal layout, but otherwise its always worked fine from this visitors perspective.

However, maybe I'm thinking of a new clubhouse that is somewhat over sized and ostentatious, which would clearly be inappropriate for the town and club, when in fact they might want to rebuild something of a similar footprint and scale, perhaps on the site of the current one, which maybe wouldn't be too bad?

Afterall, its not like the current clubhouse is original?

It started with a little hut just to the side of the first tee, I think about were the putting green is now. Then the first section of what is the current clubhouse was built and opened in 1909. Here are a couple of quick photo from inside "A History of Royal Dornoch Golf Club 1877-1999" By John McLeod



And here you can see the 1970s extension before the clock tower was moved and pitched roof added


Cheers,

James

[Mark Pearce]

Having spent a wonderful 4 days in Dornoch in May, I think the existing clubhouse is all the golf club needs.  Spending a fraction of that £4m smartening it up a bit is all that's needed.

[Kris Shreiner]

Mark,

Agree sir!


Ulrich,

With respect, RD will have MORE play than an other rural, non-MAJOR course in Scotland as long as there is a planet with humans playing golf. It could have an outhouse for a clubhouse and they would be fine! Anyone that needs more than what is currently there... IS NOT ABOUT THE GOLF!

The food, as noted, is of high quality. The welcome is generally warm(unless you're complaining about the clubhouse). Bar and dining areas, with tasteful, modest updating when prudent, suffice nicely. The pro shop, though snug, is perfect for the place. You've also not taken into account who would pay for the new palace. It would SIGNIFICANTLY increase the costs for EVERYTHING from the golf to the meals. For what? To appease the clueless? NOT HAPPENING!

Sean,

Dornoch's clubhouse...lame? Really? Wow, that assertion will take your assessments on about anything else golf-related into serious question. Might want to revisit that one.  
Cheers,
Kris

[Sean_A]

Kris

If you read what I wrote, I would not be for a new house just because the current one is lame.  A far more compelling reason than that would need to be presented for me (if I were a member) to vote in favour of a new house - whether it be a palace or a more modest structure.

Ciao

[Kris Shreiner]

Sean,

I'm with you on the need for something more compelling... just wonder what you feel is so lacking there?

Cheers,
Kris

[Jon Wiggett]

Kris,

I am in total agreement with you. The clubhouse is fine and if any inspiration is needed for a refurbish when it is deemed necessary then the clubhouse at NB west would be a good place to start. RD is a fine example of good golf and the golf course should be the main thing.

Jon

[Ulrich Mayring]

Kris,

I'm not saying that Royal Dornoch needs a new clubhouse. What I'm saying is that the money taken off visitors is in a category, where "rural, small village golf club" simply is not a fitting moniker anymore. Dornoch is not Durness. It is one of the great golf courses in the world and with that comes some responsibility.

What you apparently want is the best of both worlds: for the members a small, unassuming village club with appropriate clubhouse and for guests a major, commercial operation. Improving the clubhouse would be one way of reconciliating these different notions, lowering guest fees would be another, closing the course for guest access yet another. All perhaps not the best ideas, but I do think that there needs to be some reconciliation.

Ulrich

[Sean_A]

Sean,

I'm with you on the need for something more compelling... just wonder what you feel is so lacking there?

Cheers,
Kris

Kris

Nothing is exactly lacking, but the house is in no way appealing.  For many it isn't important, for many it is.  As I say, I wouldn't be too bothered as a member, but then I would know folks and the surrounds wouldn't matter much.  Lets just say as a visitor, the house doesn't compel me to hang about and spend money.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Ulrich,

you are paying a greenfee to play the course. It is the course that is world class and so the greenfee reflects it. Entering the clubhouse is FREE and so I do not think that you should expect a top class facility that you pay nothing for. As for the small village members club issue. Dornoch is a small village which has a golf club and so I think you shoot yourself in the foot with your analogy.

Jon

[Kris Shreiner]

Sean,

No doubt, the clubhouse is understated. It also suffers slightly from adaptations and various iterations over the years. That said, it certainly isn't shabby or painful to the eye. Some are.

I respect your view, just thought "lame" was a bit harsh. That connotates substandard conditions to me...and RD's clubhouse isn't that.

Ulrich,

Have you been to RD my man? If not, make the trek and then tell me what you find. NOWHERE in that building, save the snug pro shop, which is prefectly adequate for a course such as RD, does one feel cramped or under-served by what's there. Unless your just some snob focused on "amenties."

Please remember, RD doesn't have the MAJOR slush funds that often fund the bigger, top clubs, worldwide. They present an excellent offering, both inside and out on the course, for SUPERB value. What more can one ask for?

Royal Dornoch IS THE GREATEST BARGAIN in the WORLD TOP 20 for the non-member visiting guest. The fact they ALLOW unaccompanied play, despite their lofy status...without MAULING folks with extortionate green fees...is commendable. It's the best track in the Highlands...and it ALWAYS will be.

You seem to be advocating the great golf course must have an equally grand edifice mantra... or feel the club is somehow shortchanging those visitors that come to play it currently. NOTHING could be further from the truth. If you love the links game and embrace reaching out a little into a foreign mecca for the golf atmosphere that is RD, you're on a collision course. If one is about the pomp and puff that SURROUNDS the golf, by all means head to Wenworth or the many other posher gin palaces.

Cheers,
Kris

[David_Tepper]

Kris S. -

I suspect Ulrich M. has been to Dornoch more recently than you have.

Just in case you are not aware, the pro shop there was expanded/enlarged over the winter and the project turned out very nicely.

DT 

[Mark Pearce]

Kris,

I'm not saying that Royal Dornoch needs a new clubhouse. What I'm saying is that the money taken off visitors is in a category, where "rural, small village golf club" simply is not a fitting moniker anymore. Dornoch is not Durness. It is one of the great golf courses in the world and with that comes some responsibility.

What you apparently want is the best of both worlds: for the members a small, unassuming village club with appropriate clubhouse and for guests a major, commercial operation. Improving the clubhouse would be one way of reconciliating these different notions, lowering guest fees would be another, closing the course for guest access yet another. All perhaps not the best ideas, but I do think that there needs to be some reconciliation.

Ulrich

Ulrich,

Sorry but I think that is nonsense.  What "responsibility"?  Dornoch is one of the World's great courses.  It is playable by anyone for a relatively modest green fee.  No-one plays Dornoch for the clubhouse.  The only responsibility the club has to visitors is to maintain the course.  The fact that visitors are allowed to enjoy the same clubhouse facilities as members is generous.  There are US courses who, if they allow unaccompanied guest play at all, don't allow unaccompanied guests to use the clubhouse.  Which model best fits your idea of "responsibilities"?  Dornoch is a members club and should be run for the members.  The current clubhouse is quite sufficient.

[Kris Shreiner]

David,

He may have, but he is clearly missing what RD is all about. To mention Durness(which is a little cracker in my view!) and RD in the same breath and infer RD must spend gobs of cash, for a monument clubhouse IT DOES NOT NEED, isn't practical. As Mark Pearce correctly puts it, the club is for members and their guests, yet RD has a VERY open policy of allowing outside play, for non-extortionate fees.

It has been great place for decades and has a quality few golf destinations in the world possess. Why screw it up? The misguided local government approval, of some ghastly-looking proposed lodging next to the clubhouse(currently on hold), by those that should have FAR better appreciation for the setting, is bad enough. Those that administer the club, along with the membership, would do well to continue the tidy, golf-centered decision making that sustains the special place RD has been since the late 1800's.

Cheers,
Kris

[Ulrich Mayring]

Kris,

you don't appear to take what I write at face value, but constantly interpret something into my words which I have neither said nor inferred. Discussions don't work that way.

Mark,

I can't believe you find a greenfee of £100/£110 modest! Anyway, what I meant by "responsibility" is that they are caretakers of one of the world's great courses and not a small, rural club that has no bearing on the world outside their village. If I were a member there, I'd feel that we need to do a lot more for visitors than, say, Durness. I'd feel that this is not my course, but a place that I inherited from members coming before me and that I was entrusted to safe-keep for future generations and the rest of the world.

One way of safe-keeping could certainly be to avoid building an expensive clubhouse. Another way might be to do just that. I am in no position to judge whether Royal Dornoch should take a few cues from St Andrews in terms of visitor infrastructure. All I can say is that I felt there was a disconnection of sorts at Dornoch - a bit like Sodeto.

Ulrich

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