[Ed Oden]

I was equal parts bored and intrigued by the greens at Indianwood.  The first 17 greens are all essentially punchbowls with a remarkable lack of diversity among them.  But then you get to the 18th hole and the green is absolutely enormous with all kinds of fabulous contours.  It is Ballynealish and a stunning juxtaposition with greens 1-17.  Does anyone know the story with the 18th green?  Has it always been so different from all the others?  Is it someone else's handiwork?

[Tom_Doak]

Ed:

That 18th green has always been part of the course, I'm pretty sure, but I've never heard a story about how it got to be that way.

I agree with you that the other greens are mostly too similar.  However, they do provide for one interesting shot that I've seldom played elsewhere ... hitting a greenside bunker shot long toward the other side of the green and letting it feed back to the hole off the slopes.

[Bart Bradley]

Ed:

That 18th green has always been part of the course, I'm pretty sure, but I've never heard a story about how it got to be that way.

I agree with you that the other greens are mostly too similar.  However, they do provide for one interesting shot that I've seldom played elsewhere ... hitting a greenside bunker shot long toward the other side of the green and letting it feed back to the hole off the slopes.

That is so hard to fathom.  17 smallish, nearly identical greens and one huge and massively contoured green.  How can this be?  The 18th green must have 5x? the square footage of the next largest green on the course.  I'd love to hear the background story, because there has to be one.

Bart

[Bradley Anderson]

Wilfrid Reid's partner in golf course construction, William Connellan, had a bentgrass sod and stolon farm several miles north of Indianwood. This is just a guess but it seems likely that the 18th green at Indianwood might have served Connellan as a testing ground for various bentgrass varieties? Although it may not have been designed so huge for that purpose explicitly.

It is doubtful that the mowing and topdressing frequency at the farm would have provided Connellan with conditions for fairly evaluating bent varieties at putting green standards. It makes sense to over size a green near the clubhouse at Indianwood for the purpose of evaluating grasses. And that particular location was well protected for providing ideal growing conditions.

Of note - the name of the variety that Connellan sold was Friendship. In 1923 Connellan built a private golf course for E.B. McLean in Washington DC, designed by Flynn, called The Friendship Course. I suspect that Connellan obtained the rights to harvest stolons from the Friendship Course for his sod farm. Just a guess.

The Friendship Course

[Bradley Anderson]

Another thought occurred to me on the 18th green.

Indianwood originally opened with a temporary nine - the second nine built soon after. Knowing how parsimonious and efficient Connellan was, he may have over sized the 18th green to be used as a stolon nursery for the remaining holes as they were shaped.

The date of his sod farm up the road from Indianwood is unknown - it may have come several years after Indianwood.

Again these are just my best guesses.

[Ronald Montesano]

Did Travis design it? The 18th at Cherry Hill in Ridgeway, Ontario, is one of 18 Travis greens on the course, but beyond FunHouse in its camber and segmentation.

[Will Lozier]

However, they do provide for one interesting shot that I've seldom played elsewhere ... hitting a greenside bunker shot long toward the other side of the green and letting it feed back to the hole off the slopes.

Tom,

I feel like during my stint as a Bandon caddie I suggested a similar shot on a few holes at PD:

1) From either of the right bunkers on #5 one can hit it long to bring a ball back to a pin on either section, front or back, as both have high left sides.

2) On #11, from the left-side bunkers to a rear pin the best play might be to play a chunk-&-run to the back slopes to try to get it close, especially in match-play when you might have to make it.  (of course there are some tough putts towards the ocean on the right side of that green)

3) Certainly on #18 there is the opportunity to use the slopes from the front bunker.

Thoughts?

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Ed:

That 18th green has always been part of the course, I'm pretty sure, but I've never heard a story about how it got to be that way.

I agree with you that the other greens are mostly too similar.  However, they do provide for one interesting shot that I've seldom played elsewhere ... hitting a greenside bunker shot long toward the other side of the green and letting it feed back to the hole off the slopes.

Tom, this is a shot I have attempted at Kingsley on multiple occasions.  For me, it can widen the margin of error on a shot - I may not get as close the hole if I had executed a delicate bunker shot perfectly, but a poor attempt running it past usually has a better result than a poor attempt at the delicate shot.

Two specific holes and pin locations are:

#1
Back pin location and hitting from left hand side bunker.  I have tried take the back up into the bowl and bring the ball back to the pin.

#18
Middle pin location and back left hand side bunker.  I have taken it past the pin, up the saddle, and back down to the pin.

Again, if I could execute a perfect, delicate bunker shot the result would probably be better - but this shot often widens the margin for error and if done somewhat well - I can usually have a putt less than ten feet.  

One significant risk is if you take the ball too far up the bowls and the ball stays there...

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