Changing tastes since 1979

[Rick Shefchik]

I just came across an excerpt of an article from the November '79 issue of Golf Digest in which the five "best" courses in each state were listed. For Minnesota, the five were (in no specific order that I could find):

Dellwood Hills
Hazeltine
Interlachen
Olympic Hills
Somerset

Perhaps ranking golf courses has become a more exact science in the past 33 years. But this list should indicate the ephemeral nature of public approval. Today Dellwood Hills would not rank ahead of its immediate neighbor, White Bear Yacht Club, on anyone's list; and Olympic Hills is shutting down soon for a complete makeover.

[Jason Topp]

That is very funny Rick.  To be fair, I have been told that Olympic Hills was a better course before they converted some good golf land into housing.  I've always thought the holes to the South of the road were pretty interesting and a stark contrast to those to the North.

[PCCraig]

3 out of 5 ain't bad

[Daryl David]

Olympic Hills is shutting down soon for a complete makeover.

Rick, do you know what and who is involved in OH makeover and the reasons behind it?

[Dan Kelly]

Dellwood Hills

That must have been the period when "No Fun to Play" got extra points from Golf Digest.

That looks like alphabetical order, but even at #5: Dellwood Hills, better than White Bear, Northland, Minikahda, Golden Valley, Oak Ridge, Minneapolis ...?

It's not just an indication of changing tastes. It's an indication of the insanity of paying any attention whatsoever to these incessant rankings!

[Rick Shefchik]

Olympic Hills is shutting down soon for a complete makeover.

Rick, do you know what and who is involved in OH makeover and the reasons behind it?

No, I don't. It was being discussed at a recent Twin Cities senior league event, but it was so hot I wasn't paying very close attention.

[Dan Kelly]

To keep this thread alive, Rick, perhaps you'd best list the "five best" from, say, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania.

[Peter Pallotta]

Poor Delwood Hills - apparently not one member has ever joined gca.com and started promoting the hell out of it....

Peter

[Jeff Shelman]

I played Dellwood Hills last week in St. Paul City League. We played it at 7200 yards.

It might be the least fun I've had in a long time.

More than once I thought that being at the office might have been a better option.

[Dan Kelly]

Poor Delwood Hills - apparently not one member has ever joined gca.com and started promoting the hell out of it....

I don't think even the members of Dellwood Hills are masochistic enough to try that!

[Rick Shefchik]

To keep this thread alive, Rick, perhaps you'd best list the "five best" from, say, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania.

I would, if I had access to the whole article now, but I don't. One note I did make, however, was that one of the top five in New York was Concord Golf Club. I know nothing about Concord Golf Club. Anyone?

[Garland Bayley]

Golf Digest's original rankings were most difficult. Don't know how far they had morphed them from that by 1979.

[Dan Kelly]

To keep this thread alive, Rick, perhaps you'd best list the "five best" from, say, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania.

I would, if I had access to the whole article now, but I don't. One note I did make, however, was that one of the top five in New York was Concord Golf Club. I know nothing about Concord Golf Club. Anyone?

Wasn't that the one of the big lake (in the Adirondacks?) that advertised a lot in golf magazines?

From the resort's website:

The Concord Resort & Golf Club, is the home of the World Famous "Monster" Golf Course rated by Golf Digest as one of America's 100 Greatest Golf Courses.

At 7,650 yards from the "Monster Tees", this par 72 challenges every player with length, extensive bunkering, and a variety of water hazards. The Joseph Finger, Jimmy Demaret, and Jackie Burke, Jr. design offers a consistent World Class golf experience.

The "Monster" features full service pro shop, driving range, overnight accommodations, meeting rooms, restaurant and bar, large catering and banquet facilities, individual and corporate memberships, golf school, and a PGA professional staff for all golf instruction programs.

Overnight and Play & Stay guests are accommodated in one of our 42 spacious guest rooms with half of the rooms overlooking the breathtaking sunsets of the Catskill Mountains in our Monster Clubhouse.

For information including rates, Play & Stay packages, memberships, special group rates and tee times, please call toll free 888-448-9686

[PCCraig]

Poor Delwood Hills - apparently not one member has ever joined gca.com and started promoting the hell out of it....

Peter

As far as I know there isn't a GCAer at either of the other 4 clubs listed, so I don't understand your point.

[Dan Kelly]

Poor Delwood Hills - apparently not one member has ever joined gca.com and started promoting the hell out of it....

Peter

As far as I know there isn't a GCAer at either of the other 4 clubs listed, so I don't understand your point.

Pat --

If I may be so bold as to speak for Mr. P.:

His only point was a wee bit of GCA.com humor!

Dan

[PCCraig]

Poor Delwood Hills - apparently not one member has ever joined gca.com and started promoting the hell out of it....

Peter

As far as I know there isn't a GCAer at either of the other 4 clubs listed, so I don't understand your point.

Pat --

If I may be so bold as to speak for Mr. P.:

His only point was a wee bit of GCA.com humor!

Dan

Gotcha. 

[Peter Pallotta]

 

Thanks, Dan. But actually, Pat, that was my opening gambit -- I am going to post versions of the same sentiment over and over again on all manner of threads, taking longer and longer each time to say the same thing. I figure that with MHM not here anymore, someone has to pick up the mantle of driving you crazy! 

Peter

Rick - sorry for sidetracking the thread; it is an interesting reflection of the quite dramatic changes in what is highly valued in gca and how those values are 'counted'.

[PCCraig]

Thanks, Dan. But actually, Pat, that was my opening gambit -- I am going to post versions of the same sentiment over and over again on all manner of threads, taking longer and longer each time to say the same thing. I figure that with MHM not here anymore, someone has to pick up the mantle of driving you crazy! 

 

[Matthew Rose]

Of course, Hazeltine then and Hazeltine now would be two very different courses.

[Rick Shefchik]

That's correct, Matthew. The 1979 version of Hazeltine still featured the dog-leg par 3 16th and the short par-4 17, which P.J. Boatwright (and many other officials within the USGA and PGA) hated. Hazeltine was forced to make that change, or they would never have gotten another major. Most find Hazeltine an immeasurably better course today (for many reasons), though some (including Dan Kelly) will always prefer the original 17th.

[Dan Kelly]

That's correct, Matthew. The 1979 version of Hazeltine still featured the dog-leg par 3 16th and the short par-4 17, which P.J. Boatwright (and many other officials within the USGA and PGA) hated. Hazeltine was forced to make that change, or they would never have gotten another major. Most find Hazeltine an immeasurably better course today (for many reasons), though some (including Dan Kelly) will always prefer the original 17th.

Yes, I will. It was a terrific hole: 344 yards from the back tee (if memory serves), gentle dogleg right, uphill to an inverted-saddle landing area, with woods left and right, leading to a short-iron second shot to a green guarded by small ponds short left and short right (as the current par-3 17th still is). The pros hit long-irons off the tee, then. Nowadays, I bet they'd be more aggressive, hitting FW woods and hybrids to lob-wedge range. Some of them (Bubba!) might even try to drive the green.

The original 17 was the site of the most memorable shot of the 1970 US Open, when, in the third round, Tony Jacklin -- whose tee shot went into the trees left -- hit a punch-out that rolled between the ponds up onto the green ... from which point he made his birdie putt. Fantastic recovery shot! So much more interesting to see and to play (IMO) than the current 17th.

If I were the King of the Forest ... or even the head of Hazeltine ... I'd say: (1) PJ Boatwright was wrong, and (2) there's nothing wrong with a par-73 golf course, and (3) let's restore the 17th. The teeing ground is still waiting there, unused (except for a refreshment tent), in the neighborhood of the 10th green, 11th tee and 16th green.

[Rick Shefchik]

I'd vote for that. When you become King of the Forest, appoint me your prime minister.

[Ken Moum]

That's correct, Matthew. The 1979 version of Hazeltine still featured the dog-leg par 3 16th and the short par-4 17, which P.J. Boatwright (and many other officials within the USGA and PGA) hated. Hazeltine was forced to make that change, or they would never have gotten another major. Most find Hazeltine an immeasurably better course today (for many reasons), though some (including Dan Kelly) will always prefer the original 17th.

Yes, I will. It was a terrific hole: 344 yards from the back tee (if memory serves), gentle dogleg right, uphill to an inverted-saddle landing area, with woods left and right, leading to a short-iron second shot to a green guarded by small ponds short left and short right (as the current par-3 17th still is). The pros hit long-irons off the tee, then. Nowadays, I bet they'd be more aggressive, hitting FW woods and hybrids to lob-wedge range. Some of them (Bubba!) might even try to drive the green.

The original 17 was the site of the most memorable shot of the 1970 US Open, when, in the third round, Tony Jacklin -- whose tee shot went into the trees left -- hit a punch-out that rolled between the ponds up onto the green ... from which point he made his birdie putt. Fantastic recovery shot! So much more interesting to see and to play (IMO) than the current 17th.

If I were the King of the Forest ... or even the head of Hazeltine ... I'd say: (1) PJ Boatwright was wrong, and (2) there's nothing wrong with a par-73 golf course, and (3) let's restore the 17th. The teeing ground is still waiting there, unused (except for a refreshment tent), in the neighborhood of the 10th green, 11th tee and 16th green.

It was also the site of one of my favorite lines from the '70 Open.

In a practice round Orville Moody asked his caddy for an iron and some smartass in the back row said, "Trevino hit a driver."

Moody gave the iron back, accepted the driver and split the saddle with a dead straight bullet.

As he handed the driver back, he said, "The only time I leave the fairway is to answer the telephone. "

K

[Shane Wright]

I played Dellwood Hills last week in St. Paul City League. We played it at 7200 yards.

It might be the least fun I've had in a long time.

More than once I thought that being at the office might have been a better option.

Jeff,obviously Im not a member at DH, but I have a 1230 there tomorrow and wont be skipping it to stay in the office. 

[Dan Kelly]

I played Dellwood Hills last week in St. Paul City League. We played it at 7200 yards.

It might be the least fun I've had in a long time.

More than once I thought that being at the office might have been a better option.

Jeff,obviously Im not a member at DH, but I have a 1230 there tomorrow and wont be skipping it to stay in the office. 

Shane --

Let us know if you have any second thoughts.

Dan