Trump International Golf Links

[David_Tepper]

Global Golf Post reviews Trump Aberdeen at length:

http://digitalmag.globalgolfpost.com/20150427?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=READ%20MORE%20-%20Trump%20Intl%20Scotland&utm_campaign=Reminder-Tuesday-04-28#&pageSet=19&page=0

[Brian_Ewen]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/alex-salmond-donald-trump-is-a-beaten-man-after-court-rejects-windfarm-legal-challeng.1433517377

Alex Salmond: Donald Trump is a beaten man after court rejects windfarm legal challenge
Friday 5 June 2015
Alex Salmond has described Donald Trump as a beaten man after the US billionaire's lawyers lost a challenge against an offshore wind farm near one of his Scottish golf resorts.



The former First Minister, who has been involved in a bitter dispute with Trump since his SNP administration approved plans for 11 turbines to be built near the businessman's Menie estate in Aberdeenshire, called on him to accept the Court of Session's decision 'with good grace.'

But the Trump Organisation refused to back down, saying it was impossible to get a fair hearing on windfarms in the Scottish courts, and said its lawyers will appeal through the Supreme Court and the European Courts.

The scheme is opposed by the property developer, who claims it would spoil the view from his luxury golf links at the Menie estate.

Lawyers for the Trump went to the Edinburgh court to obtain a a review of the Scottish Government's decision not to hold a public inquiry on the wind farm application and their decision to grant consent for the project.

The petition was dismissed in February last year and Scotland's most senior judge, Lord Gill, has now ruled that the earlier decision was legal.

He has now released his judgment, in which he states: "None of the considerations founded on by the petitioners comes anywhere near to supporting the petitioners' suspicions.

"I propose to your lordships that we should refuse the reclaiming motion."

Mr Trump had previously pull the plug on plans to further develop his resort near Balmedie if the wind farm goes ahead.

He had also Mr Salmond was "hell-bent on destroying Scotland's coastline and therefore Scotland itself".

Following the latest judgement, Mr Salmond, now MP for Gordon in Aberdeenshire, said: ""I am delighted by the decision of the highest court in Scotland to turn down Mr Trump's case.

"This judgement is one led by Scotland's most senior judge , the Lord President. The Trump organisation has now been beaten twice in the Scottish courts and I hope that he will now accept the decision with good grace."

Mr Salmond said the economic downturn in the North Sea industry showed why the north east needs to look to offshore wind technology.

He added: "Offshore wind is an emerging technology and the demonstrator of up to 11 new turbine devices would have put us at the centre of the

development of that technology for the future.

"We have seen a number of times recently where corporate power can frustrate democratic decisions by litigation for delay rather than winning in court.

"That is what the insurance companies did over pleural plaques, the whisky companies have done over minimum pricing and now the Trump organisation have done over this offshore wind demonstrator. It would be tragic for the North East if delay has impeded this valuable offshore."

The European Offshore Wind Deployment Centre (EOWDC) project is a joint venture by Vattenfall Wind Power and Aberdeen Renewable Energy Group, who say the turbines would be capable of yielding enough electricity to power 68,000 UK households over a year.

WWF Scotland director Lang Banks said: "This result is good news for Scotland and for all those interested in cutting carbon emissions and creating jobs.

"Once again the courts have seen through Trump's flimsy, misguided attempts to frustrate Scotland's ambition to create clean power and green jobs. It's now time for Mr Trump to stop wasting any more time and money on this case.

"Once up and running, this test facility will be ideally placed to help test the technologies needed to harness the huge offshore renewables potential, ensuring learning by industry, and playing an important role in helping to drive down costs."

In a statement, the Trump Organisation said: "The written judgment is no surprise - it's impossible to have a fair hearing challenging wind-farm applications in Scotland.

"We have already instructed our legal team to commence an appeal before both the Supreme Court of the UK and the European Courts.

"The EOWDC proposal has now languished in the planning system for more than 10 years and has a long way to go before construction can actually commence."

The statement added that Vattenfall, AREG and Technip had "long abandoned" the project and it wa common knowledge that there is no funding to allow it to proceed.

It continued: "It's impossible to envision how this ill-conceived proposal will ever get built."

[Jon Wiggett]

So Donald is going to challenge to stop a project that he believes is never going to get built in the first place and that challenge will end up in a court in Europe which is known to be even more socially and environmentally minded than the wishy washy liberal Scottish court he lost in first time . Maybe he could build a whacking great earth dam to block out the seaward views.

Has anyone told him he needs a caravan park somewhere bordering his course for it to be considered a true links

Jon

[Brian_Ewen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I1ozKYD0HI

[Bryan Izatt]

Got the following from Trump in my e-mail.  Price is not bad by American standards; not sure it's in line with Scottish membership prices, especially given that it is a public course.

"Our golf season begins on April 1st - if you're thinking about your club membership for 2016 speak to our membership team about our fantastic new individual category; £2,495 per year including unlimited golf, year-round access to world-class practice facilities, members competitions and handicapping."

[Niall C]

I'm not sure what the subs are for Royal Aberdeen which most folk would consider the premier club/course in Aberdeen, but I suspect that they are (significantly ?) less expensive than that. Also one of the great advantages of being a links member is playing all year round irrespective of the weather whereas Balmedie appears to be shut from November to April. I suspect this package will mainly be of interest to those that want to use it for corporate hospitality.


Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Royal Aberdeen I don't know, but Murcar is £856 a year. I don't see too many taking up Trump's offer

[David_Tepper]

Bryan & Adam -

My guess is there will be a number of guys  (these days a smaller one) in the oil business who visit Aberdeen regularly that will join and use the club/course to entertain clients. They will be able to writeoff the annual dues as a business expense.

DT

[Adam Lawrence]

Yes, probably. That audience is also why I am surprised that Trump hasn't started work on building his hotel at Menie. Even with the oil business doing badly, Aberdeen is a very busy city, with a shortage of high quality hotel rooms. I should have thought that Trump's hotel would be an excellent business proposition, and there's certainly no way the golf course will ever break even until he builds the hotel.

[Thomas Dai]

Of the three courses mentioned in the last few posts only one has 18-holes and only one closes for several months each year. And the oil industry in that part of the world is in a bit of a pickle so golf freebee's for oily folk won't be what they once were. Might be an idea over the coming months etc to keep an eye on the Balmedie courses website for 'offers'.
Atb

[jeffwarne]

Wonder if there's a discount for the "poorly educated"?

[Martin Lehmann]

Although I agree with most of you that Mr. Trump ('The next president of the United States!") is a major league a..hole, I don't understand the sour undertone every time this golf course is subject of discussion. I have stated this before and I'm saying it again: it's an unbelievable achievement that a true links course of this quality and magnitude has been developed in Europe at the beginning of the 21st century. Golfers, lovers of links courses and those who are interested in golf course architecture should be over the moon with Trump International Golf Links.

[Sean_A]

Martin


Many think it would have been a great achievement to retain the dune system.  I am interested in golf architecture, but not even close to over the moon with Trump International. The views are very impressive, but they were before a course was built.  The course is great, but didn't take advantage of its links turf.  In essence, it was possible to build this course in tons of places without messing up the dune system.  The concept of an aerial links is something I will forever wonder about.  Maybe I could forgive the destruction of a very cool site if we had a very cool course as a result...guess I shall never know.


Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

I think there are several things going on. One is distaste for Trump personally, another is distaste for the way he went about the Menie project. And finally there is a sense that the golf course is not what it should be given that property -- too aerial, as Sean says, too focused on views, especially from tees, too few out and out great holes

[Thomas Dai]

At a date in the future.


President Don, with his caddy Boris, turns to Kim Jong-un on the 1st tee at Balmedie and says "So, do you reckon you can birdie every hole on this course?".



Atb

[jeffwarne]

Although I agree with most of you that Mr. Trump ('The next president of the United States!") is a major league a..hole, I don't understand the sour undertone every time this golf course is subject of discussion. I have stated this before and I'm saying it again: it's an unbelievable achievement that a true links course of this quality and magnitude has been developed in Europe at the beginning of the 21st century. Golfers, lovers of links courses and those who are interested in golf course architecture should be over the moon with Trump International Golf Links.

You had it right in the first sentence....

Adam and Sean pretty much summed it up.
Just because we are golfers doesn't mean we have to check our tastes, integrity,duty to the environment and souls at the door. Certainly not for the destruction of a very special site for an above average asshole trap.
Is it really "unbelieveable" that it was developed?
The story is, but not in a good way....
The fact that he may be President? Now that is unbelieveable.....


There are are MANY,MANY great links courses in Europe, specifically in the UK and Ireland, in fact more
than can ever be played by any one person, so it's not as if there is a shortage of links golf in the region.


Color me as a lover of links courses who is NOT over the moon at what was destroyed,what was created, and HOW it was created.

I know quite a few architectural afficionados whose opinions I respect highly who have played the course in question.
Not one was "over the moon".

[Jon Wiggett]

Although I agree with most of you that Mr. Trump ('The next president of the United States!") is a major league a..hole, I don't understand the sour undertone every time this golf course is subject of discussion. I have stated this before and I'm saying it again: it's an unbelievable achievement that a true links course of this quality and magnitude has been developed in Europe at the beginning of the 21st century. Golfers, lovers of links courses and those who are interested in golf course architecture should be over the moon with Trump International Golf Links.

Martin,

there have been several very good links courses built in recent years. Yes, Mr Trumps course is a good one but given the quality of the site I would go so far as to say it is the worst that was possible on that site.

Jon

[Bill Gayne]

It's all small potatoes.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/doon-with-that-donald-trump-calls-doonbeg-golf-resort-small-potatoes-721552.html

[Mike Sweeney]

Has anyone told him he needs a caravan park somewhere bordering his course for it to be considered a true links

I am trying to stay GCA appropriate in this next era of membership, but you sucked me back in. Since I belong to a very very good but not great Links course next to a caravan park (Enniscrone), I am seriously offended

And just for the record, only Euro-trash like Donnie lives in Midtown. Those apartments are basically a vault in the sky to scammers and scoundrels. 

[Martin Lehmann]

I suppose this discussion will never come to an end. From the fact that there is so much controversy, one can at least draw the conclusion that the course is not average and boring. 


With regard to 'destroying the beauty of the natural site', I dare to say in all objectivity that that's simply not true. The documentary that was made on the construction of the course is biased and one-sided to say the least. In my opinion 'reversibility' is a key factor to determine whether a golf course is well designed and constructed or not. In the case of Trump Links this test is quite simple: if you remove the flagsticks and tee markers and leave the rest to mother nature, you won't see traces of a golf course in a matter of months. Not sure if one can say that with new links courses like Kingsbarns, Castle Course, Caste Stuart et cetera.


Like always, judging the design of the course to a large extent is a matter of taste. I like it a lot and think it is absolutely fantastic.


   

[Jon Wiggett]

I suppose this discussion will never come to an end. From the fact that there is so much controversy, one can at least draw the conclusion that the course is not average and boring. 


With regard to 'destroying the beauty of the natural site', I dare to say in all objectivity that that's simply not true. The documentary that was made on the construction of the course is biased and one-sided to say the least. In my opinion 'reversibility' is a key factor to determine whether a golf course is well designed and constructed or not. In the case of Trump Links this test is quite simple: if you remove the flagsticks and tee markers and leave the rest to mother nature, you won't see traces of a golf course in a matter of months. Not sure if one can say that with new links courses like Kingsbarns, Castle Course, Caste Stuart et cetera.


Like always, judging the design of the course to a large extent is a matter of taste. I like it a lot and think it is absolutely fantastic.


   

Martin,

quite obvious on which side your bias lies. How do you get the shifting dunes that have been stabilised moving again? What about all the earth movement that went on. Just remove the flagsticks eh!!! What about the foreign grasses that have been introduced to the site, how you going to eradicate them? The list goes on and on.

As to your point about CS and the rest. They did not impinge on a SSSI so not really the same but I would point out they had far less impact on the natural environment.

Jon

[Niall C]

Martin


I saw the site before they started on site and to suggest that the land the course is sited on would go back to its virginal state is wishful thinking IMHO. Golf courses have their own natural beauty, particularly traditional links courses that were laid out over the land. This course was not laid out. It was fashioned in the modern style, nothing wrong with that. But if you pulled the flags, took away the six lots of tee markers and what ever else they have at each hole, you would still see quite clearly the created landforms long after. You would also have the legacy of the grass planting (rye ?) which wasn't there before.


You can put me in the camp that believes this course shouldn't have been built but I blame the politicos for that more than Trump. Trumps a developer and he was doing what developers do. It is for the authorities to decide what should be allowed. You can also put me down as one who thinks that the course has some merit and that the gca's have done well in part however as Sean says, the concept of an aerial links does make you wonder.


Niall

[Kevin Markham]

Still plenty of chatter going on over here about Trump Doonbeg... build a wall, don't build a wall... protect the snails, kill the damn snails... and what people think of the new Hawtree work. And of course Donald didn't visit this weekend.


I got to play it during the week and it is a very enjoyable round of golf... it is not 'small potatoes' that's for sure. Hawtree's work has been well received. To be honest, I last played it in 2008 and so I don't remember the exact Norman design, although I very much liked the greens. The new greens and complexes are very good (a bit slow at the moment but that's no surprise) and feel surprisingly well settled. The inland holes, away from those pesky snail-infested dunes, remain the weak link (holes 12 and 17 notably) but the shots here are well varied and the new par three 14th is very good (... if not iconic, like the old version).


Rather than trying to post all the photos (over 100) on here, here's a link my Doonbeg Flickr page.

[Kris Shreiner]

It's refreshing to see this site
exhibit some responsible questioning and opinion on what was a disgraceful chapter in the Scottish history of our great game.

Martin,
Kindly remove the rose colored glasses and get ahold of yourself.
If you know anything of the twisted evolution of that project, you certainly couldn't keep a view you possess.

Where is all that economic gain, AND those good jobs TRUMPeted to be sure to follow ? Non-existent...that disaster will continue to lose it's ass.
Yet the pack of jackels that were only to happy to get in bed with Mr. Chump for all that economic gain rooted it on. Where are they now?
Donald is probably trying to distance himself from golf a little when possible (which will be difficult for him given he has an ownership interest in so many) purely to avoid the negative stigma some in the media stir up when those running for,  or in elected office,  are seen to be playing too much golf.
Obama is regularly chastized for playing often.
The fact a great many of our recent Pres.' played doesn't matter. Depending on the candidate, they can be singled out  for it. He has enough negatives already, he doesn't need still another.
Cheers,
Kris

[Jud_T]

Donald is probably trying to distance himself from golf a little when possible (which will be difficult for him given he has an ownership interest in so many) purely to avoid the negative stigma some in the media stir up when those running for,  or in elected office,  are seen to be playing too much golf.

Given that he chose to talk about the course at Turnberry, the amazing Lighthouse suites and how a massive decline in the value of the Pound was good for the resort's business while Trillions (with a T) of dollars of market value was being dusted off by Brexit and middle aged voters panicked about their 401K's, apparently he didn't get the memo...