Dismal River and The Midwest Tour

[Mac Plumart]

Hmmm, Chris has already widened the right side of #9.

Don't widen it anymore then.   

It was perfect for the 5th Major.

[Mark Saltzman]

The next stop on the trip was to Valentine, Nebraska and The Prairie Club. This is a cool place, a great lodge and amazing food. Many people are not a fan of The Pines Course but I enjoyed it. It has a few different identities with some holes playing close to the river canyon and other playing more like Prairie Golf, I found the course incredibly tough.

I liked The Dunes Course but kind of thought that they tried to hard. Everything seemed a bit over the top and the routing was very poor and it was easy to get lost. I expected a little better I suppose.

Sam, I'd like to say we'll agree to disagree, but instead I'll just say you're wrong.  Dunes gets better and better on repeat playsand really cannot be appreciated based on a single round -- at least I didn't get it after the first round.

What makes the routing poor?

[Mac Plumart]

Sam, I'd like to say we'll agree to disagree, but instead I'll just say you're wrong.

 

[Chris Johnston]

9 is as wide as it will be.  We added 20ish yards to the right side last year and I think it helped a bit.  We may add a "framing" bunker in on the right side (that you can see from the tee) to add definition but that would be the last change there.  I love the green.

wrt 14, it is a very challenging hole, the most so on the back 9, if not the entire course.  Chris Cochran told me he believed the green has changed due to natural topdressing (wind blowing sand) and we may reshape it to lessen some of the internal contours in the next few years - not a big fan of a steady diet of big internal contours.

I'm very happy with the finishing stretch of holes and agree with the sentiment that some of the more polarizing holes (5, 6 & 10) are a blast as one normally doesn''t find similar holes anywhere else.  18 is as pretty a hole as I have seen.

It's easy to "pick" small things out in every routing.  Many times, the "nits" are what makes a place unique, if not what helps to define fun and/or special.  

We are very fortunate to have so many cool and diverse places on out this way.

[Mac Plumart]

Many times, the "nits" are what makes a place unique

Yes, yes, yes!!! 

Oakmont...highway

Maidstone...opening holes

St. Andrews...drive over the hotel on 17

I could go on and on...but you get the point.

[Cory Lewis]

Love the taller stick idea.  But I love the hole as it is as well.  The tee shot is easy after you play the hole a few times.  14 ProV's in the weeds comes from not properly pulling off the risk/reward...there is a HUGE bail out area to the left.

Very true Mac but here's the problem, when you bail left it's very hard to have any idea where the green is and because of the down hill nature of the approach you never know where the ball is going to end up. I hit a good drive down the left side, couldn't see the green, and hit a very good second shot at the pin. We never found the ball!  It probably went over, but who knows?  with crap left,right, and over and a pretty severe downhill approach, it's just borderline unfair. 

But on the other hand, that morning I challenged the right side, hit a good drive, went and looked at the green, and hit 1 1/2 less clubs because of the approach and had 12 feet for birdie.

[Mac Plumart]

Love the taller stick idea.  But I love the hole as it is as well.  The tee shot is easy after you play the hole a few times.  14 ProV's in the weeds comes from not properly pulling off the risk/reward...there is a HUGE bail out area to the left.

Very true Mac but here's the problem, when you bail left it's very hard to have any idea where the green is and because of the down hill nature of the approach you never know where the ball is going to end up. I hit a good drive down the left side, couldn't see the green, and hit a very good second shot at the pin. We never found the ball!  It probably went over, but who knows?  with crap left,right, and over and a pretty severe downhill approach, it's just borderline unfair. 

But on the other hand, that morning I challenged the right side, hit a good drive, went and looked at the green, and hit 1 1/2 less clubs because of the approach and had 12 feet for birdie.

I agree.  Until you've played that hole, maybe, 5 times you don't know how to play it...where to hit it...and what lurks over the horizon.  For future reference, if out of position off the tee...lay up 15 to 20 yards short of the middle of the green between the gray box and the bunker and you will feed to the green.

The first two holes at Dismal require insider knowledge on how to play them or they can be overwhelming and confusing. 

[Richard Choi]

I like Dismal as much as the next guy (okay, not as much as Chris), but if Brian thinks the front 9 at Dismal is better than any at SH or BN, I am afraid the 100+ heat was too much for him to handle (btw, loved your swing - compact and very repeatable).

I LOVE the 9th hole (perhaps the best on the course) just as is but I do believe a bunker would be an enhancement. The only negative I have on that hole is that if you miss to the right, it is blind and the area is so vast that it is almost impossible to find your ball if not for some blind luck. I think a bunker will help you gauge the direction and distance better on your tee shot (compared to the bunker) so that you have a better chance of finding your tee shot in the rough.

I am not the biggest fan of the 2nd hole, but I don't think you need a taller stick to improve it. There are enough landmarks in the surrounding hills far away that you can use them for aiming purposes. From the left side of the fairway (where I was most of the rounds), you can use the blowout bunker on the top of the far hills. There are other landmarks to use from other angles. You just need to be aware.

[Mike Hendren]

Mac Plumart is spot-on regarding the 9th. The extreme right side off the tee is a sucker play for the longer hitter who wants to get home in two at all costs.  A new bunker over there would only serve as an alignment aid off the tee.  The absence of an aiming point off the tee coupled with the extreme width is the hole's best feature.  For all but the biggest hitter it is a legitimate three shot hole masquerading as reachable in two - no small feat for today's architecture.

[Don_Mahaffey]

5. The saddle hole, it is stupid? Yes, it's a retarded hole, but I loved it! Anything can happen on this and usually does, except for birdies, I don't think those ever happen.

Ryan and I played this hole 2 under and lost to a birdie. On three of our matches, all four players were within 20 feet. It might be tough, but the green is receptive and its only a wedge or 9 iron. (Ryan hit a 52 degree gap wedge all 5 matches) Looks hard, plays easy, IMO...

[Chris Johnston]

I like Dismal as much as the next guy (okay, nice as much as Chris), but if Brian thinks the front 9 at Dismal is better than any at SH or BN, I am afraid the 100+ heat was too much for him to handle (btw, loved your swing - compact and very repeatable).

Rich - we get that opinion alot more than you may think.  I merely like to recognize all of the courses out this way are way good...with their own style, beauty and playability.  There are as many individual opinions as there are individuals and, other than having 18 holes, they are all unique in their own right.  For me, I like a how the routings "mesh" a more at SH and BN but, hole by hole, I put Dismal at the very top and also give it props in terms of diversity for both match and stroke play potential.  I always love when guys play close to, at, or under par - so much for being too hard!

For me and my game, I really enjoyed Ballyneal but the greens there were a bit on the "internal contour" extreme side for me - they seem to work very well there.  Sand Hills par 3's are very challenging and #'s 2 and 13 (tee to green) are easily as edgy as anything we have over at Dismal River.  Think about it - it's flattering to even be mentioned with those two.

For those who attended the walking tour, Tom's course certainly has the "mesh factor" down...18 fantastic holes too!   I think Tom is on his way to yet another great one on a site that is better than I have ever seen.  I've walked it a bunch and learn more every time.

Happy 4th, everyone!

[Sam Morrow]

The next stop on the trip was to Valentine, Nebraska and The Prairie Club. This is a cool place, a great lodge and amazing food. Many people are not a fan of The Pines Course but I enjoyed it. It has a few different identities with some holes playing close to the river canyon and other playing more like Prairie Golf, I found the course incredibly tough.

I liked The Dunes Course but kind of thought that they tried to hard. Everything seemed a bit over the top and the routing was very poor and it was easy to get lost. I expected a little better I suppose.

Sam, I'd like to say we'll agree to disagree, but instead I'll just say you're wrong.  Dunes gets better and better on repeat playsand really cannot be appreciated based on a single round -- at least I didn't get it after the first round.

What makes the routing poor?

I went around twice and thought the routing was confusing, some signs would be good. A couple of times I went straight down the path and ended up on the wrong hole, I've been told by several people that they had the same issue with it. I played well, I made a few tired swings late but in the conditions had a very good round going so it can't be the old bag play stigma.

[Sam Morrow]

Sam,

Looking forward to the pictures, good luck at Sprint.  I think your assessments are spot on, however I have not played Prairie Dunes yet which is a shame because it is only 2.5 hours down the road.

That is very disappointing to hear about Awarii Dunes, I grew up in Kearney and still have family there.  Struck out at my only attempt to play there because of the weather last fall.  I think they have the opportunity to succeed with a relatively larger population base compared to WH and other Nebraska courses.

Did the bent play spongy?  I can imagine the amount of water they have to pump on the course this time of year.

Jason

What is the good looking course on the highway in Hastings?

[Jason Hines]

Lochland?

[Sam Morrow]

Lochland?

It was on the west side of the highway, looked like a nice club, nice homes, interesting looking course.

[Jason Hines]

Have not played it for 15 years, always was in good shape and was probably hands down the best course in the area until the sand hills boom hit.

[Sam Morrow]

Have not played it for 15 years, always was in good shape and was probably hands down the best course in the area until the sand hills boom hit.

Who designed it? From the road it really looked good, really didn't look like any other course I'd seen in the area.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Nice review thanks Sam

[Sam Morrow]

Nice review thanks Sam

Anytime, I can also review restaurants and motels.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

And gas station ladies

[Sam Morrow]

And gas station ladies

Just the one......

[Michael George]

I love everything about the sand hills and chop hils area.  CJ nailed it when he said all of them are really good. 

Re: Dismal River ---- The way that I described it to a friend last night was that Dismal River is just fun golf.  There are a ton of different and unique shots on that course.  I loved how almost every green had a bank area to hit your ball into.   I think CJ's addition of width to the fairways is really smart.   Guys don't have fun when they lose balls in the fields and the blind shots and angles provide the course all of the protection that you really need.  I don't care how much someone loves a golf course, if he is losing golf balls, he is not having fun.  CJ gets it when it comes to playability.

My thoughts on holes at Dismal - #1 awesome opening hole from the upper tee - really fun and cool (CJ - blow up the bottom tee as the hole does not compare from down there); #2 enjoyed it more every time I played it (ultimate member hole); #3 - solid par 3 with great view from on top of green; #4 really loved this par 5 (for the lesser players, widen the fairway to the right - too many lost balls in the right fields and still have longer shot to the green - don't need it to protect the hole); #5 is my favorite par 3 on the course - great and interesting hole (shorter version of #13 from Sand Hills) (if in Scotland or Ireland, would be considered a classic); #6 loved the approach shot into that bowl green, but it would be nice to grow more fairway to the right (and possibly short) to provide a choice of angles into that green (ala Pete Dye); #7 a really good, testing par 4; #8 great drivable par 4 - fun; #9 loved this par 5 - maybe best on the course - but I agree with comments about framing the tee shot better (adding a right bunker would be visually cool and provide a point of reference).  #10 - cool par 3 with 3 distinct greens (I would only have 1 pin so the mental part of the hole is more in play); #11 - maybe my favorite par 4 on the course (would consider cutting down fields through left side fairway as blind shot from down there is hard enough); #12 solid par 5; #13 great par 4 (I would keep both fairways and use both greens from time to time - the lower green is not too difficult and is a cool shot - also the approach to the lower green is unlike any other shot on the course); #14 very pretty par 4 with great view from the tee; #15 fun par 3 with ramp to the right and false back off to the back left.  #16-#18 are my favorite stretch on the course (I would not change a thing on any of them).  #16 has a great green.  Loved #17 playing right below that dune to the right and #18 for shear beauty.   

I would recommend anyone on the site to take a visit.  The  views and facilities are great.  The Nicklaus course is pure fun.  I don't think it is intended to be a championship test of golf - just a place that you really enjoy playing and never get sick of.  The Doak course is every bit as good as advertised by some on this site.  It will be an instant success in the rankings.  The hole with the infinity green into bighorn (#9??) is just awesome and the finisher #18 will be one of the best finishing holes in the world.

Lastly, I would encourage people on the site to meet Chris Johnston.  He is a genuinely nice person and a joy to be around.  Is he biased toward Dismal River - yes.  Does he want Dismal River to succeed - yes.  But he is a good guy and great host.   

[Adam Clayman]

Re: The 9th.

As a rule of thumb, I'm agin a framing bunker. There are plenty of aiming features on the horizon that should suffice.

In my novice opinion, I think the problem lies at the teeing ground. I say that because the forward tee is perfect. The farther back tees are where this apparent problem exists.

If there's to be any more changes to the 9th, I believe this is where it would do the most good.

[Mark Smolens]

Michael, I agree completely with your assessment of DR as simply being a fun golf course to play. If you can keep your ball in play (something I struggled with at times), you can play the course, and if you can bomb it like my partner you can even go low. But the varying winds we encountered over three days -- often changing between morning and pm rounds -- makes each trip around the course a new experience.

Sam, I knew you'd like 15. That little punch short/mid iron you hit in there against us, which crept over the ridge and right past the hole to 6' was a thing of beauty (I was able to duplicate that shot on Sunday afternoon playing with the Seattle contingent, great fun btw). But 16? Heck in 5 plays I was two under on that hole. Plus, I saw the greatest putt I've ever seen in person when Matt drained one from the front of the green to that back right pin placement.

I just liked the way you could hit what you thought was a pathetic shot, only to have the ball end up in a decent spot -- I experienced much of that in my trips across the pond to play links golf, and it's fun to do it in northwest Nebraska.

As for Mr. Johnston, is he sometimes a bit "over the top" on this Board? Perhaps. But to meet the man is to enjoy his company, and his passion for a really wonderful place to spend some time.

Here's hoping that Eric will be putting on the 5th Major next year, and that past participants get first dibs on the openings. . .

[Chris DeNigris]

A few hole observations:

1. Loved it from the back tees. Very tough into the wind and esp tough as a starter, but IMO is a much better hole from back there.

2. Drive is a little Strantz-like...intimidating but plays easier than it looks. I think there's a great bail out for slightly mis-hit drives by allowing 30-40 yard approaches to funnel down and almost get there. With a front pin you can make an easy par or even a run at birdie from the collection area in front. A big drive give you the chance to fly it all the way to wherever the pin might be. I think you grow to like this hole the more you play it.

3. The best tee for this shot is 3 steps off the back of 2 green. Amazing angle and view of the green and at about 175 yards would be a different distance than most of the other member tee shots on the par 3s.

5. Very UK-like feel to this hole.

9. My favorite hole on the front.

10. Nuff already said.

14. Liked it better with left pin. Plenty of room to miss left with still a good leave.

15-18.  Great finish- solid 3, 2 very different but really good 4s and a terrific uphill finisher.

Max fun...very interesting parallels to Ballyhack and Kingsley. I think Mike Whittaker tried to generate some comparative discussion of these courses a few months ago...perhaps now that more folks have played 2 or all of them we can discuss.