Photo Tour: La Cumbre, Santa Barbara

[Matt_Cohn]

La Cumbre Country Club in Santa Barbara is hosting the California State Amateur this week. The website is at http://www.lacumbrecc.org/. The course plays to 6,496, par 71, so it's not long. The greens are fast and sloped, but not scary fast or scary sloped. Therefore the medal play scores were relatively low with 129 as the medalist score and 142 a playoff to reach match play. The course was designed by George Thomas and William Bell in 1925, and was renovated by a team including Geoff Shackelford a few years ago.


1 tee, par 4


1 approach


1 green


2 tee, short par 4


2 approach


2 green and 3 fairway


3 tee...yeah, the trees are mildly awkward


3 approach - pretty much blind


4 tee - dogleg left short par 4


4 approach


5 - shortish par 3


5 green


6 tee - par 5, OB left and right


6 approach


6 green


7 tee - cool par 3 into a hollow


7 green


8 tee - tight and challenging par 4 with hazard right and OB left


8 approach


8 green


9 tee - short par 5


9 green


9 green


9 green. They asked us to rake the floor of the bunkers with the teeth of the rake, and the sides with the back of the rake, Melbourne-style. Looks better when the grounds crew does it though.


Just happened to catch this guy in an unfortunate spot


10 tee - steep drop to the fairway, short par 5


10 approach


10 green


11, par 3


12, par 5. Not a 90° dogleg, but it feels like it. The line for the teeshot is over the right palm tree.


12 layup. The big left trees feel a bit out of place and unnecessarily constricting, but they certainly add to the challenge.


12 green


Nice place


13, looong par 3


13 greens. The land green (front) is longer; we didn't play the island green in the background.


14 approach, par 4


14 green


Not sure about this feature around 14 green. Legitimate, but seemed kinda contrived?


15 approach, par 4


16 tee, mid length par 4


16 approach


16 green


17, par 3


18 tee, par 4


18 approach, uphill


18 green

[Keith Doleshel]

Matt,
Nice pics.  The course looks to be in good shape and is in a nice setting, but did you feel like it was up to the standards of hosting such a prestigious event?  I know you aren't going to go out of your way to criticize the course, just wondered what your opinion was.  With so many great courses in California, I was just wondering where La Cumbre stood.  It was a bit of a surprise to see it host the tournament, as I haven't heard much about it, and seems to be quite short by modern standards.  Thanks for posting, look forward to hearing your opinion.

[David_Tepper]

Matt -

Thanks for posting the pics. The course looks a little "tight." Did it play that way?

Keith D. -
 
I agree with your points. The scores shot at La Cumbre seemed very low to me. I don't think there has been a Cal State Am yet where you could shoot even par for 36 holes and not qualify for matchplay.

DT 

[Jeff_Brauer]

The feature on 14 does seem a bit contrived.  The mounds behind the green look more modern than GT.  I know Cary Bickler worked there for a while in the 1980's and wondered if he redid any of that?

Nice little course.  You can see some changes over time by looking at either GT or Geoff Shacklefords books.  I think both have pix from the old days.

[Mike Benham]

I suppose the purpose of the Royal Melbourne style of raking the bunker was to prevent balls from staying the face/upslope of the bunker.  I'm guessing that didn't work out to well for this golfer.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks for the photo tour. 

I think the scope of Geoff's work there was just bunkering.  Sure wasn't tree removal.

[Geoff_Shackelford]

John is mostly correct, tree removal was not a big part of the work there but we did get some out. Mostly it was about rebuilding the bunkers to a style more reflective of the Thomas/Bell heritage to replace bunkers from the 90s redo that were evolving poorly. The idea was to get the build-up lowered and feeling like they were cut up into the green complexes instead of resting above them. Early on, they had some of the more intricate edging of Thomas and Bell's work from the late 20s but we changed Green Chairman midway through the project and so we had to pull back on a lot ideas because the new chairman just couldn't wrap his head around much of anything and didn't like what we were doing.

La Cumbre is one of the great properties in golf and at one time included some of Thomas and Bell's wackiest design ideas. It's still a perfectly nice place to play with sensational conditioning, which, combined with ample square footage and benign contours, helps explain the state am scoring.

I have no idea what that thing is on 14, but when you change presidents annually and green chairmen almost as often, that's the kind of stuff you get.

[Matt_Cohn]

Keith - I should mention first that the club was a great host. The conditioning was exceptional and you could tell they went out of their way with how they prepared the course. The hosted food was impeccable. Everything was/is first class. I think there was some surprise dating back a year about the course, and particularly about having a State Am at a 6,500 yard golf course that isn't really that hard. However if you look at the stroke play results it certainly did sort out the best players with a very large spread in scoring and a mix of power and precision players, so it's hard to argue with that. I think there's a consensus at this point that NorCal (MPCC, Lake Merced, Olympic) is outdoing SoCal (Lakeside, La Cumbre, Rancho Santa Fe) in terms of the championship credentials of the host sites, although the SoCal sites have certainly been very nice.

David - yeah, but not overly so. Only the 8th hole and maybe the 6th kind of make you pucker a little. Maybe 10 if you're feeling wild. But it's definitely a place where you need to drive it reasonably straight to score; you just don't have to hit a lot of drivers if you're a long hitter. I hit driver on every hole except two of them, but if I were a strong college-type player I probably would have hit driver on 1 because it's wide, 9 because there's nothing stopping you, I guess 10, 12 for sure...maybe one or two others. It wasn't unreasonably tight, just not overly forgiving off the tee.

Mike - you're right on both counts. The bunker sand was a bit heavy and they referenced the raking being for the purpose of avoiding buried lies. I never realized how hard it is to use the flat back of the rake until I tried it. You just end up pushing a big pile of sand around. The only way to do it is to pull it up towards the lip. And yeah, that guy didn't get it out of the bunker on his first try.

Geoff - thanks for your comments. What were some of the wacky ideas? I saw a couple of old pictures in the clubhouse that bore no resemblance to any of the holes on the golf course now! And you're right about the greens; good point. The greens on the clubhouse hill - 2, 9, and 18 - were tough. The others were not necessarily easy to read but weren't particularly scary either unless you were totally out of position.

[J_ Crisham]

Played here in January and was disappointed- too many trees and just not very firm. The area around the pond was overrun with coots and they made a hell of a mess. Not a course to travel a long distance to see- wish I would have played another round at The Valley Club instead.

[David_Tepper]

Matt C. -

Aside from Riviera, what SoCal courses do you think would be more or most suitable for hosting the Cal State Am?

DT

[Matt_Cohn]

Matt C. -

Aside from Riviera, what SoCal courses do you think would be more or most suitable for hosting the Cal State Am?

DT

I don't know, really. I never realized that if you combine Golfweek's Modern and Classical Top 100 list, the score is something like 12-4 in favor of Northern California. I doubt Riviera, LACC or Valley Club would ever host State Amateurs. Bel Air, Shady Canyon, Barona? Would Torrey Pines ever host? Sherwood? I mean, you wouldn't think MPCC would be the kind of club that would do it, but they have been generous tournament hosts to the State Am, Girls State Junior, and others.

[Bill_McBride]

If you hit 4 iron off every tee, you would see how I play LaCumbre!  #4 may be a short par 4, but all I can ever see with my approach is trees!   Love your angle.   #9 is a stout 3-shotter for me, not a short par 5.   I would be a bigger fan if they spent a a zillion dollars and tore out all the kikuyu.

I've enjoyed the club and course for 50 years, when our UCSB team practiced and played home matches there.   

[Bill_McBride]

The course plays a LOT wider than it looks.  Cuts from the 2nd and 18th tees and a draw off the 8th are only tee shots where a shaped tee shot is helpful.

[John Kirk]

Thanks for the tour, Matt.

I like the way the seventh hole looks.

[Greg Chambers]

Thanks for the tour, Matt.  Looks like Wayne had the place in tip top condition for the event.

[R_Paulis]

Great memories of living across #4 in a guest cottage many years ago. Frequently played a grouping of four holes "unofficially" and the occasional guest round. Waking up to the clatter of spikes (pre soft spike) crossing a pathway was not so bad for me. My significant other liked it a lot less. It was a serene place to live.

[Scott Warren]

Thanks Matt. Always wonderful to see the beautiful San Ysidro Santa Ynez Mountains. They're something else.

nb - I was told the mountain range that bears over Santa Barbara and Montecito was the San Ysidro, but Wikipedia tells me that range is actually near San Diego and it's the Santa Ynez. Is that correct?

[Kyle Henderson]

I doubt Riviera, LACC or Valley Club would ever host State Amateurs.

Valley Club hosted a qualifier last year.

[Matt_Cohn]

I doubt Riviera, LACC or Valley Club would ever host State Amateurs.

Valley Club hosted a qualifier last year.

Yes...a Monday is different from a week. But it would be neat if they did.

[David Bartman]

Went to UCSB and played in So Cal Am a couple years ago

La Cumbre is a ok golf course and in my opinion not acceptable to hold the state am on. 

if you wanted to stay in SB , Sandpiper is a better golf course and a better test of golf than La Cumbre.

That being said the California Golf Association really ruined the California State Amateur when it left the Monterrey Peninsula and Pebble Beach.

I know that PBC started to price gouge and really screwed them on times, one of my match play matches I was 2nd off at 6:20am, had to warm up in the dark!

That being said, they didn't use the media to try to save the almost 100 years of the State ams at Pebble.  When I was 16 the two stroke play rounds were at Cypress and Pebble with the match play at Pebble.  Since the stroke play moved around to Spyglass, Poppy and Pebble but the matches were always at Pebble Beach a course , designed with the sole purpose of hosting the California Amateur. 

I thought at the time and voiced my opinion to some of the powers that be, that this was the avenue to keeping the tournament in tact at Pebble.  Get Arnold Palmer, Clint Eastwood and Peter Uberroth involved, all of whom were involved at the time, but I'm sure had no idea that their company was forcing the State am to leave. 

Sorry, it just really pissed me off ... that being said .. the state am has lost a lot of history due to the rotation of North and South.  To that regard I think that the SCGA should host the state am at Torrey Pines every year that they host.  It has 2 courses, one of which is a championship venue.  Having the matches on a championship course should be important but doesn't seem to be for the SCGA.  Lakeside, Oakmont, La Cumbre, La Jolla, c'mon it's pretty damn embarrassing if you ask me. 

Norcal has certainly had the ability for their best courses to host, Olympic, Lake Merced ... championship golf courses.  MPCC, its OK, but I have never felt less welcomed to any golf course in my entire life then how the players were treated at the state am at MPCC. 

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks Matt. Always wonderful to see the beautiful San Ysidro Santa Ynez Mountains. They're something else.

nb - I was told the mountain range that bears over Santa Barbara and Montecito was the San Ysidro, but Wikipedia tells me that range is actually near San Diego and it's the Santa Ynez. Is that correct?

Yes, with the Santa Ynez valley beyond, home of the Pinot Noir film "Sideways," which did include one funny golf scene. 

[Matt_Cohn]

I have never felt less welcomed to any golf course in my entire life then how the players were treated at the state am at MPCC. 

In what way? I played in that one and didn't feel similarly.

[David Bartman]

Let's see, we had to park almost a 1/2 mile from the clubhouse, in a field, when the parking lot , which was reserved for members, was only 25% full.  in fact I saw a player tear up the bottom of his car on a tree stump.  We weren't allowed in the clubhouse, they had guards guarding the clubhouse to make sure that we didn't go in the clubhouse.  My memory is hazy but I recall having an issue with my practice round time as well. 

[Greg Chambers]

Sorry, it just really pissed me off ... that being said .. the state am has lost a lot of history due to the rotation of North and South.  To that regard I think that the SCGA should host the state am at Torrey Pines every year that they host.  It has 2 courses, one of which is a championship venue.  Having the matches on a championship course should be important but doesn't seem to be for the SCGA.  Lakeside, Oakmont, La Cumbre, La Jolla, c'mon it's pretty damn embarrassing if you ask me.  

Out of curiosity, why would you think it's embarrassing to hold the State Am at a course such as Lakeside, Oakmont, La Cumbre, or La Jolla?  And I'm not sure what you mean by "championship venue".  What exactly is a championship venue?

[David Bartman]

Sorry, it just really pissed me off ... that being said .. the state am has lost a lot of history due to the rotation of North and South.  To that regard I think that the SCGA should host the state am at Torrey Pines every year that they host.  It has 2 courses, one of which is a championship venue.  Having the matches on a championship course should be important but doesn't seem to be for the SCGA.  Lakeside, Oakmont, La Cumbre, La Jolla, c'mon it's pretty damn embarrassing if you ask me.  

Out of curiosity, why would you think it's embarrassing to hold the State Am at a course such as Lakeside, Oakmont, La Cumbre, or La Jolla?  And I'm not sure what you mean by "championship venue".  What exactly is a championship venue?

Greg,

To get right to the point, In my opinion,  a championship venue should be one that tests golfers in all aspects of the game.  When I think of courses like Pebble Beach, Olympic Club, Lake Merced, Torrey Pines ... the first thing that comes to mind are the shot values that are presented.   They are challenging, and the green complexes generally differ based on the shot value that is being presented.  I use every club in my bag when I play these courses.

When I play courses such as Lakeside ( which I like ) Oakmont, La Cumbre and La Jolla, I don't use every club in my bag, there are a lot of wedges into greens.  The shot values that are presented are repetitive and don't usually test a players entire skill set. 

As to why its embarrassing, hosting the California amateur should be a honor.  Southern California has a few gems like LACC, Riviera and  Torrey Pines yet the SCGA cannot get our best clubs to host the state am, that to me is embarrassing.   Would you not be embarrassed if every time you went to a friends house he had filet mignon and every time he came to your house you served hamburgers?  There is no doubt that NoCal has many more suitable courses than SoCal, but the simple fact that they get these clubs to host the event should be the goal of the SCGA.