[Garland Bayley]

A.G.,

Basketball players don't judge EVERY shot by markings on the court.  Put them on a court without lines and they would shoot about the same, probably with a slightly lower percentage.  Generally speaking you develop a sense for where you are by the markings on the court, which assist when you go up for a quick jumper before zeroing in on the rim.  Otherwise the brain measures the shot almost instantly when you look at the rim.  The lines give you a guide for whether you should shoot or not.  Too far out, and the coach, who sees those lines, takes you out of the game, assuming you miss.
John McPhee wrote a book about Bill Bradley and titled it "A Sense of Where You Are."  It explained for the author how a player develops a sense by noting the markings on the court and the basket itself, through hours of practice.
I cannot speak for football, but if a quarterback is going to be aware of the yardage markers before throwing a pass, he is probably too late in his release.  I suspects a receiver is more likely to be aware of the yardage lines.

I'm going to take Lynn's assessment over yours if you don't mind.

[A.G._Crockett]

A.G.,

Basketball players don't judge EVERY shot by markings on the court.  Put them on a court without lines and they would shoot about the same, probably with a slightly lower percentage.  Generally speaking you develop a sense for where you are by the markings on the court, which assist when you go up for a quick jumper before zeroing in on the rim.  Otherwise the brain measures the shot almost instantly when you look at the rim.  The lines give you a guide for whether you should shoot or not.  Too far out, and the coach, who sees those lines, takes you out of the game, assuming you miss.
John McPhee wrote a book about Bill Bradley and titled it "A Sense of Where You Are."  It explained for the author how a player develops a sense by noting the markings on the court and the basket itself, through hours of practice.
I cannot speak for football, but if a quarterback is going to be aware of the yardage markers before throwing a pass, he is probably too late in his release.  I suspects a receiver is more likely to be aware of the yardage lines.

I'm going to take Lynn's assessment over yours if you don't mind.

I don't mind a bit; he said what I was trying to say about shooting a basketball even better than I did.  I'll retract the word "EVERY", but I 100% agree with Lynn that markings on the court are important to both players and coaches in developing and assessing shots.  Your original question was "Do basketball players use distance measuring devises (sic) when they shoot?"  It's pretty clear that Lynn's answer is yes, at least to some degree, and I'll take that.  I'd also add that Lynn Shackelford might be considered to have been a pretty atypical shooter of the basketball, with far, far better feel and instincts that even most elite players.

As to QB's, plays are called from HS to the NFL based on down and distance; that's whats on the laminated card that you see offensive coordinators looking at before sending the play in.  Receivers run their routes that way, and QB's make the throws that way.

I don't believe that I said that either football players or basketball players ONLY rely on distance measuring devices, but it is absurd to argue that they don't use yardages/measurements/markings constantly and in the same way that golfers do.  I'm not backtracking when I say that, but I'll agree to the clarification that other sports rely on instincts as well as measuring devices.  As do golfers, even those with range finders...

[Tony Ristola]

Melvyn resigned from the Discussion Group.

I am presently pleading with him to contribute some future In My Opinion pieces as I really like reading his Old Guard stances on a wide variety of subjects.

Cheers,

Hear! Hear!
Hope he does.

Dan King you're spot on too.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Duncan,

I agree. it's a shame that Melvyn is gone.

He has an ardor for the game, therefore, he should be contributing to the DG.

I am just about a year and a half here and never crossed swords with Melvyn so I am not understanding the dancing on his grave mentality of some members of the group.

I have observed, however, that many very passionate and well informed folks have said ta ta to this DG due to the lack of civility of the dialogue. I am glad that I am in contact with many of them behind the scenes and that they have been very helpful to me in my endeavors forming a history  committee at my club.

Such a grand game, we are so attentive to etiquette on the golf course. Why not on our own discussion group website?

(Now donning my fireproof jumpsuit)

Malcolm

[Sam Morrow]

I just took him off my Facebook, no matter what I post he starts talking about golf carts.

[Tim_Cronin]

A.G.,

Basketball players don't judge EVERY shot by markings on the court.  Put them on a court without lines and they would shoot about the same, probably with a slightly lower percentage.  Generally speaking you develop a sense for where you are by the markings on the court, which assist when you go up for a quick jumper before zeroing in on the rim.  Otherwise the brain measures the shot almost instantly when you look at the rim.  The lines give you a guide for whether you should shoot or not.  Too far out, and the coach, who sees those lines, takes you out of the game, assuming you miss.
John McPhee wrote a book about Bill Bradley and titled it "A Sense of Where You Are."  It explained for the author how a player develops a sense by noting the markings on the court and the basket itself, through hours of practice.
I cannot speak for football, but if a quarterback is going to be aware of the yardage markers before throwing a pass, he is probably too late in his release.  I suspects a receiver is more likely to be aware of the yardage lines.

I'm going to take Lynn's assessment over yours if you don't mind.

I don't mind a bit; he said what I was trying to say about shooting a basketball even better than I did.  I'll retract the word "EVERY", but I 100% agree with Lynn that markings on the court are important to both players and coaches in developing and assessing shots.  Your original question was "Do basketball players use distance measuring devises (sic) when they shoot?"  It's pretty clear that Lynn's answer is yes, at least to some degree, and I'll take that.  I'd also add that Lynn Shackelford might be considered to have been a pretty atypical shooter of the basketball, with far, far better feel and instincts that even most elite players.

As to QB's, plays are called from HS to the NFL based on down and distance; that's whats on the laminated card that you see offensive coordinators looking at before sending the play in.  Receivers run their routes that way, and QB's make the throws that way.

I don't believe that I said that either football players or basketball players ONLY rely on distance measuring devices, but it is absurd to argue that they don't use yardages/measurements/markings constantly and in the same way that golfers do.  I'm not backtracking when I say that, but I'll agree to the clarification that other sports rely on instincts as well as measuring devices.  As do golfers, even those with range finders...

The greatest players know exactly where they are. Raymond Berry, the unmatched receiver, stepped on the Baltimore Colts practice field at the start of one season, ran a pattern or two, and said, "the field is mismarked." He thought it was too narrow. The field was measured. It was too narrow by, if I recall correctly, about six inches.

[Bill_McBride]

Duncan,

I agree. it's a shame that Melvyn is gone.

He has an ardor for the game, therefore, he should be contributing to the DG.

I am just about a year and a half here and never crossed swords with Melvyn so I am not understanding the dancing on his grave mentality of some members of the group.

I have observed, however, that many very passionate and well informed folks have said ta ta to this DG due to the lack of civility of the dialogue. I am glad that I am in contact with many of them behind the scenes and that they have been very helpful to me in my endeavors forming a history  committee at my club.

Such a grand game, we are so attentive to etiquette on the golf course. Why not on our own discussion group website?

(Now donning my fireproof jumpsuit)

Malcolm

Malcolm, it's a "Discussion Group," not a lecture hall.  How many times in your 18 months here did you read the same cut-and-paste diatribe?  I'm not glad he's gone but don't miss that.  I'll bet he misses the stage he had here. 

[Ronald Montesano]

So friend him on Facebook. He's just as fun.

[Peter Pallotta]

I just assumed it had everything to do with him being Scottish

It did get, let's say, repetitive, but every one/site needs at least one grumpy uni-dimensionalist in his life

Peter

[George Pazin]

Perhaps folks just took Mel's barbs a little too seriously - as did he, in regards to the arrows slung at him. (And I'd say the same about those who have a problem with Pat as well, except that I know Pat laughs when others sling arrows at him.)

This whole site illustrates the difficulties in communication and interaction we have throughout life. Folks give others they know the benefit of the doubt, while condemning those they don't know. The same thing happens on here - I repeatedly read the same people who had major problems with Mel doing many of the same things with other posters, yet when they do it, they expect it to be simply taken as a joke. Splinters, beams, eyes and all that good stuff...

I don't know what the answer is, but I generally don't think it's banning anyone, nor do I think it's people banning themselves (there are exceptions, of course). I am thankful Dan King has posted on this thread, every thing he says makes me think and usually nod my head in agreement, and I am greatly greatly saddened that I don't get to interact with Huck or others who have stepped out on a regular basis anymore. I understand the decision, but I don't have to like it.

[Marty Bonnar]

I just assumed it had everything to do with him being Scottish

It did get, let's say, repetitive, but every one/site needs at least one grumpy uni-dimensionalist in his life

Peter

...none taken.

F.

[Peter Pallotta]

...no offence intended, of course. I love the Scots!


Peter

[Tony Ristola]

...no matter what I post he starts talking about golf carts.

And? So what if he did?

Melvyn has the heart of a purist, which isn't a bad thing at all. He has pretty high standards and you won't move him from them without a damn good reason. I like that. He has developed a set of principles and beliefs. He obviously doesn't like the direction the game has gone (as I don't either) and the direction it continues to go. He's unapologetic about it too. For me that's refreshing, especially in an era of spinelessness, legalese, and political correctness run amok. It's nice to see someone with knowledge plant their feet and take a stand. We need more Melvyn's, especially in the organizations that are supposed to protect the game.

Melvyn was far more than carts, cart paths and distance devices. His absence is a loss. I really hope he does submit some essays; a forum where he can pour out his thoughts. We'll all be the better for it.

I recall first signing up here years ago, and loved Ran's line about it being about (paraphrasing) the good, bad and ugly of golf architecture. Melvyn obviously had strong opinions of what he believed was ugly.

Now, it's off to the course with my Bushnell... but no cart.

[Wayne_Kozun]

It looks like Melvyn is alive and well and posting on Shackelford's blog regarding DC doing a bit of damage to the Claret Jug:

If it’s not your property people just don't seem to care. Yet there are others out there that do and to win the Claret Jug is one thing, but we also need to remember all the other great names in golf that have held that trophy with great pride and respect.

I suppose at the end of the day it just reflects modern society, it’s no mine so who cares.

Is this what winning The Open means to some?
07.16.2012 |  mh.morrow@sky.com

Didn't his ancestors win the Moroccan leather belt that predates the Claret Jug?

[Terry Lavin]

Poor, poor pitiful Mel. So misunderstood. So underappreciated. So generous with his advice and with sharing his trove of historical documents.

In a word, in a UK word at that, I say "rubbish". He hung around on the fringe of this site to brag of his lineage and pick fights with the 90% of us who simply tired of his bs. All of this handwringing is nothing but revisionist history. In almost all of his battles, he would end up claiming he was the victim, that people were picking on him and he was just trying to contribute. Which he did. He produced more bile than the rest of us combined. RIIP, MHM. Rest in Internet peace. There are probably three posters on Shacks site who will buy what you're selling.

[Garland Bayley]

Poor, poor pitiful Mel. So misunderstood. So underappreciated. So generous with his advice and with sharing his trove of historical documents.

In a word, in a UK word at that, I say "rubbish". He hung around on the fringe of this site to brag of his lineage and pick fights with the 90% of us who simply tired of his bs. All of this handwringing is nothing but revisionist history. In almost all of his battles, he would end up claiming he was the victim, that people were picking on him and he was just trying to contribute. Which he did. He produced more bile than the rest of us combined. RIIP, MHM. Rest in Internet peace. There are probably three posters on Shacks site who will buy what you're selling.

Everyone's got some BS that is tiring. You included.
And your post is not bile?

[Ed Brzezowski]

Got into the R & A last year and they said they had the real Jug. So which one is really real??

Typing from my golf cart juggling a laser and cell phone while playing a Polara ball and clubs with box grooves.

[JESII]

In my second or third interaction with him I asked a question he didn't like and said "go f**k yourself"...

Figured he was a special kind of crazy so I just steered clear for the next couple of years.

[Michael George]

Poor, poor pitiful Mel. So misunderstood. So underappreciated. So generous with his advice and with sharing his trove of historical documents.

In a word, in a UK word at that, I say "rubbish". He hung around on the fringe of this site to brag of his lineage and pick fights with the 90% of us who simply tired of his bs. All of this handwringing is nothing but revisionist history. In almost all of his battles, he would end up claiming he was the victim, that people were picking on him and he was just trying to contribute. Which he did. He produced more bile than the rest of us combined. RIIP, MHM. Rest in Internet peace. There are probably three posters on Shacks site who will buy what you're selling.

Well said Terry.

I can accept the content of anyone's posts on this site - to each their own - although some of you are never right  . I like a heated debate from time to time on issues - even on the merits of walking to the game (one question - is Melvyn ok with golf shoes, as Uncle Tom never used them?).   Call a poster's thoughts on a topic misguided or even stupid.  But don't call out the poster on a personal level, when you don't even know the person or just met him during 1 round of golf.

Melvyn resorted to personal attacks on people in almost every debate.  He never took the high road and almost always chose the low road.  To me, this was unfortunate as the topics discussed on this site are not of such importance to warrant such venomous attacks.  Good riddance.

[Bill_McBride]

In my second or third interaction with him I asked a question he didn't like and said "go f**k yourself"...

Figured he was a special kind of crazy so I just steered clear for the next couple of years.

Dying to know what the question was!   

[Kalen Braley]

Even if MM wasn't a prickly old codger.....

....his message was a broken record at best.  At what point did he feel like people would change thier minds on his blatantly ignorant and ill-thought out positions?  After 100 rants?  200 rants?  300?  1000?

Enough was enough already.

[Garland Bayley]

Even if MM wasn't a prickly old codger.....

....his message was a broken record at best.  At what point did he feel like people would change thier minds on his blatantly ignorant and ill-thought out positions?  After 100 rants?  200 rants?  300?  1000?

Enough was enough already.

You don't get it do you?

The point was not necessarily to change the minds of people on the website. The point was to get the message out in public for those that hadn't made up their mind. The reason he was repetitive, was because it gave more exposure to the message. He actually wrote from time to time that was his purpose.

And Mr. "hockey players are the greatest athletes", you haven't lost your position of king of blatantly ignorant and ill-thought out positions yet.

[C. Squier]

Even if MM wasn't a prickly old codger.....

....his message was a broken record at best.  At what point did he feel like people would change thier minds on his blatantly ignorant and ill-thought out positions?  After 100 rants?  200 rants?  300?  1000?

Enough was enough already.

You don't get it do you?

The point was not necessarily to change the minds of people on the website. The point was to get the message out in public for those that hadn't made up their mind. The reason he was repetitive, was because it gave more exposure to the message. He actually wrote from time to time that was his purpose.

And Mr. "hockey players are the greatest athletes", you haven't lost your position of king of blatantly ignorant and ill-thought out positions yet.

MHM's vortex of nonsense has claimed another victim. Thankfully, the toll is still in the single digits.

[Chris DeNigris]

Can someone please explain to me why anyone was forced to read any of Melvyn's posts if they didn't want to? 

[David_Elvins]

Can someone please explain to me why anyone was forced to read any of Melvyn's posts if they didn't want to? 

30+% of profitable TV shows are based on the premise that people actually want to be outraged by idiots. 

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