Incredibly devious hole locations

[Patrick_Mucci]

This past weekend I saw what seemed like good shot after good shot suffer dire consequences.

The hole locations seemed benign to the visitor, great golfers that they might be, but even veterans with abundant local knowledge fell victim to their location.

Yet, Some of these hole locations, that seemed benign from afar, were so incredibly intimidating upon closer inspection that the golfer was frightened to putt to them with any degree of confidence, once the golfer was on the green and could observe the contours/slope of the green and the location of the hole near those contours/slopes.

How many greens have benign looking hole locations that lure the unwitting golfer to a dire fate

How many greens have hole locations that frighten, intimidate and cause the golfer to putt to them defensively ?

And how many greens have both ?

At pace, on the greens at NGLA, there are hole locations that lure the unwary to approach them with abandon, leading to the degreening of their ball, and hole locations that based on the position of the golfer's ball on the green, cause the golfer to be fearful and defensive, lest he putt off the green to a dire fate.

How many courses have greens that do both ?

As an example, on # 9, a large green emerging seamlessly and at the same elevation as the fronting fairway, but elevated at the flanks and rear,
Hole locations favoring the perimeter lure the golfer to attack them.  I had 124 to the hole located at mid right flank and chose to punch a 9-iron to the front, allowing it to release to the hole.

I was dumbfounded to see the ball, rolling directly to the hole upon landing, begin to deviate from it's intended path and roll toward the edge of the green.
I was shocked when it disappeared off the green.
I was further shocked to see that it had rolled down the closely mown (to fairway height) grass, into the rough, leaving me a 25 yard recovery over a bunker to a short sided flag.

The next day, on the first hole. I hit a sand wedge to 25 feet right of the hole which was cut front left.
Just having come from the practice putting green which was lightening fast, I feared that it would be all too easy to hit the putt too hard or slightly left, in both cases causing me to degreen my ball, which would have resulted in it being 20 yards down the fairway.  I can tell you, that's a frightening prospect.  I left it 8 feet short and missed the next putt.  All due to visual intimidation.

I don't know of any other course where both of  these conditions exist, but if you can list them, I want to make arrangements to play those courses.

Macdonald was a genius !

[John Chilver-Stainer]

How about the 16th at Royal St.Georges with the pin set mid green in depth and about  7 yards from the left of the right hand bunker. The position looks benign from the Tee.

Luke Donald missed the cut here last year at the Open - he aimed on line, landing slightly short and marginally right - only to watch his ball roll very slowly sideways off the green into the bunker.

Thomas Bjorn fell foul of the same demise in 2003. On the 16th Tee he was leading the Open with 3 holes to go and then ……..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=xpUuFQOa7LA&NR=1

(put the volume down on the video – bad music tastes)
 
I watched Tiger Woods at the 1997 Open playing the Postage Stamp, Royal Troon. He  landed his tee shot 2 yards in front of the pin, which was in the back part of the green but located in the centre in what looked like a benign position. The ball made a small bounce, went past the pin by 2 yards and rolled off the green into a deep bunker. He made a triple which ended what had been an impressive charge.

In both cases most of the other contenders had landed the ball in the “fat” of the green and then putted to the pin.
The suckers that went for an ace ended up rolling off into deep bunkers.

Book your ticket to the UK Patrick.

[Matthew Essig]

How about the 16th at Royal St.Georges with the pin set mid green in depth and about  7 yards from the left of the right hand bunker. The position looks benign from the Tee.

Luke Donald missed the cut here last year at the Open - he aimed on line, landing slightly short and marginally right - only to watch his ball roll very slowly sideways off the green into the bunker.

Thomas Bjorn fell foul of the same demise in 2003. On the 16th Tee he was leading the Open with 3 holes to go and then ……..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=xpUuFQOa7LA&NR=1

(put the volume down on the video – bad music tastes)
 
I watched Tiger Woods at the 1997 Open playing the Postage Stamp, Royal Troon. He  landed his tee shot 2 yards in front of the pin, which was in the back part of the green but located in the centre in what looked like a benign position. The ball made a small bounce, went past the pin by 2 yards and rolled off the green into a deep bunker. He made a triple which ended what had been an impressive charge.

In both cases most of the other contenders had landed the ball in the “fat” of the green and then putted to the pin.
The suckers that went for an ace ended up rolling off into deep bunkers.

Book your ticket to the UK Patrick.

I was going to say that it seems like every links course has holes where the green looks benign, but to get it close to many hole locations, you must aim away from the hole, sometimes off the green.

[Mark Chaplin]

Patrick is clearly describing everyday links golf of which National is a partial copy. Such instances you describe are common on quality links courses. You are clearly used to rolling 3 feet off the green and coming to rest in 6 inch deep grass.

John - the right bunker on 16 RStG has been softened since Bjorn's demise. 

[Jason Topp]

Don't most golden age courses have these features when the green speeds are too high for the slopes? 

Woodhill has many such locations with a ton of internal contour.  A couple of weeks ago I was sitting above the 18th green watching groups hit approaches to the wrong side of the hole and hit putts that went twice as far past as they started.  The problem was that if one hit it on the low side of the hole the ball would roll at least 30 feet away.  The approach with a short wedge was therefore a choice between a 30 footer below the hole or a shorter putt that needed to go in or result in at least a three putt.

The 1st at Minneapolis Golf Club is a simple example of a treacherous slope creating fear.  It is a very short straightaway par five with a green that slopes steeply from back to front.  From above the hole it is usually possible to stop the ball but just barely.  It creates a decision no matter whether your approach shot is your second from 200 yards or a simple chip from the front of the green.     

[Bill_McBride]

Patrick, I didn't see a single benign pin position anywhere on that first green at NGLA!   Diabolical.....another club would have yielded to the anguish of the members decades ago and softened that green.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark, John & Mathew,

I don't recall encountering similar situations at so many holes at TOC, Troon, Prestwick, Western Gales, Gullane, North Berwick or Turnberry.

To cite another situation, I was six inches off the green almost directly behind a far right hole location on # 3.
I "putted" with a 6-iron and hit it slightly right of the hole.
I thought I left it short of the hole by three feet, but, it kept rolling and rolling, off the top plateau, down the fronting slope 20 feet or more off the green.

My opponent, pin high, 15 feet left of the pin saw this and hit his putt extra high, but with insufficient pace to reach the hole.
He was horrified to see his putt end up 8 feet below the hole, but thankful it didn't roll off the green, down to where my ball ended up.

I doubt the links courses you reference have green speeds that come anywhere near the speeds at NGLA.

It's those speeds, combined with the insidious contours and slopes which makes approach and putting so challenging.

But, when you view those greens from afar, from the DZ, you don't see those subtleties until it's too late.

Local knowledge is a significant factor at NGLA, certainly more so than most of the courses I've played.

There's nothing quite like NGLA

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick, I didn't see a single benign pin position anywhere on that first green at NGLA!   Diabolical.....another club would have yielded to the anguish of the members decades ago and softened that green.  

Bill,

From afar there are a few benign looking hole locations, mostly in front or on the right side of the green.

They did remove the deep back left  bowl a year or two ago.
As Yogi said, you couldn't get there from here.
It made for a very difficult hole location.

In the practice round the hole was cut in the left middle bowl.
One fellow chipped from the right and his ball rolled down into the bunker.
Another putted from the right, up over the spine down into the ball where his ball picked up pace and went into the bunker.
Both took sixes.  I almost drove the green, left my approach short and right of the hole, and putted using the bowl to redirect my ball and made an 8 footer for par.

Qualifying, my fellow competitor drove it 79 yards from a back right location, I drove it 76 yards from the hole.
We both hit good approaches about 18-20 feet from the hole. We both hit good putts, just missing birdie, and tapped in for pars.
I said, "I'm thrilled to walk off this green with a par, it's the scariest first green in golf, especially in a medal play qualifier"
He said that he worries about that green every time he plays the hole and that he's happy as can be to make par.
We both related situations where a golfer's round was ruined on that hole.

On the score card you think,  how scary can a 310-318 hole be, but when the greens are at pace, which is typical, that's one frightening green to confront on the first hole, especially at medal play

[Mark Chaplin]

What you are describing is a compromise on the design. The fella who designed National did not intend the greens to ever run that quick. The reason you did not see green speeds that quick in Scotland is the other trick of the links - wind. Balls start to blow around when greens get much over 11 on the stimp.

[PCCraig]

Don't most golden age courses have these features when the green speeds are too high for the slopes? 

Woodhill has many such locations with a ton of internal contour.  A couple of weeks ago I was sitting above the 18th green watching groups hit approaches to the wrong side of the hole and hit putts that went twice as far past as they started.  The problem was that if one hit it on the low side of the hole the ball would roll at least 30 feet away.  The approach with a short wedge was therefore a choice between a 30 footer below the hole or a shorter putt that needed to go in or result in at least a three putt.

The 1st at Minneapolis Golf Club is a simple example of a treacherous slope creating fear.  It is a very short straightaway par five with a green that slopes steeply from back to front.  From above the hole it is usually possible to stop the ball but just barely.  It creates a decision no matter whether your approach shot is your second from 200 yards or a simple chip from the front of the green.     

Jason,

I think you're right in that modern green speeds have turned what were tame classical greens into true beasts. I can think of a few greens at T&C (1, 5, 8, 11, 13, 17, 18) where I've seen well struck putts from above the hole roll past and off the green. As you say in your second point the player just needs to be aware of the green slopes and plan accordingly if possible. Many times a conservative shot aimed at the front or center of the green, even with a wedge in hand, works best.

[Patrick_Mucci]

What you are describing is a compromise on the design.
The fella who designed National did not intend the greens to ever run that quick.

I don't know what speeds CBM designed them for.
One could make the case that since they can handle 11 that he designed them to be able to accomodate increased speeds.

The reason you did not see green speeds that quick in Scotland is the other trick of the links - wind.
Balls start to blow around when greens get much over 11 on the stimp.

The same applies to NGLA which is swept by good winds.

Some of the greens at NGLA are very large, like # 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 17 and 18,

but not all are steeply sloped, like # 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 14, 17 and 18.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I thought we've discussed Wolf Point before.
Wolf Point is an answer to almost every hypothetical question you've ever asked that began with "why don't more courses have ..."
Cheers