[Matthew Mollica]

I'd find it hard to split Titirangi, Kidnappers and Paraparam on that front Clayts.

[Michael Goldstein]

Grant,

Mike is right, Titirangi has a good set of par threes.  It is one of the best renovations in New Zealand and the greens are particularly good.  Redan does not quite work but the brave contours on 7 and 14 are excellent.  The drop shot 4th provides balance.

Titirangi still sits below three other sets of par threes.  Cape Kidnappers, Paraparaumu and Oreti Sands.

I think the set at Pram can't be beaten and are amongst the best in the world. Even the Morpeth rebuilt 14th hole works and (like the 4th at Titirangi) provides the balance of a downhill pitch shot. 

As far as short par threes, under 130m, I'd note the blind 6th at Oreti Sands, the 16th at Pram and the cliffside 13th at Kidnappers are three of my favourites.  There is a punchbowl at Hokitika which is memorable too (I think this is in the True Links book). Another that came to mind was the 1st at Arrowtown which has a fantastic ground hazard short right but is probably longer than 130m. The controversial 16th at The Hills could be great with minor alterations - although it definitely fits into the 'hated by tour pro's' category.   And I rather enjoyed the early par three at Cromwell but I suspect that is also longer than 130m.

Looking through Scott's list I'm unfortunately inclined to disagree with his Renaissance comment.  This exercise only proves as much.

[Michael Goldstein]

Two more points:

1.  Wayne: yes, we only have 4.3m people.  But we also have thousands of miles of coastline and a temperate climate and associated grasses.  Whilst we have the second highest number of golf courses per population, it would be preferable if more of these were built on suitable land.

2.  Tom: your course is obviously on very suitable land and will be a success. Good luck with it.

[Grant Saunders]

Grant,

Mike is right, Titirangi has a good set of par threes.  It is one of the best renovations in New Zealand and the greens are particularly good.  Redan does not quite work but the brave contours on 7 and 14 are excellent.  The drop shot 4th provides balance.

Michael

Agreed that the par 3s at Titirangi are very solid as a set.

I do however feel that the 14th simply plays too tough at the current greenspeeds when combined with the contours. It is not the contour that I have issue with but rather it is the characteristics of the poa greens that require them to be maintained in such a way that faster speeds are inevitable.

Our four played it (handicaps 4, 8, 11, 19) and probably took a combined 12 putts between us. Combined with 166 metres and no real place to miss it, its a pretty brutal hole with the green running above 10 foot.

I have heard recently that there is possibly going to be efforts made to reintroduce browntop as the dominant species in the greens which would overcome the problem and make for a more balanced set of challenges.

Here are the par 3s. Interesting as I post these, I hadnt noticed the lack of differential in hole lengths as posted on the card. They do play differently however.

4th hole, 169m from the blues



7th hole, 170m from the blues



11th hole, 161m from the blues



The 14th hole, 166m from the blue

[Scott Macpherson]

Hi Boys,

Not to brag, but this week I am in Malta to visit Royal Malta for some research I am doing on the 63 royal golf courses. I flew in yesterday and it was about the only bit of 'green' I could see from the window of the plane. It is 33 degress here today, and I bet they don't have wall-to-wall fescue!

Michael, to expand on my renaissance comment, my point was.... imagine the range of golf courses in NZ if Kauri Cliffs, Cape K, The Hills, Kinloch, Jack's Point, Gulf Harbour etc had not been built. The shape of the Top 10 in NZ would have a completely different shape. And, it may have meant Millbrook, Wairakei, Titirangi, RWGC may not have felt compelled to instigate significant renovations. That almost entirely wipes out the Top 10. 

scott

[Dane Hawker]

Scott how far away is Gibbston Valley? Sure we will see it up the list. Best country ever through there... And wine

[Leo Barber]

Photographed this pic in the clubhouse today.  Top Ten from 1998.  Interesting to see the line up of courses before the renaissance (accepting Gulf Harbour and that other forgotten lass Formosa) came along.

1 Paraparaumu Beach
2 Wairakei
3 Christchurch GC (Shirley)
4 Gulf Harbour
5 Titirangi
6 Formosa
7 Auckland GC (now Royal) Middlemore
8 Wellington (now Royal) Heretaunga
9= Millbrook
9= New Plymouth (Ngamotu)

Interesting to see how a few of the new courses of the day made the grand entrance, Millbrook, Gulf Harbour and Formosa.  Also the prominence of the 3 big private clubs in Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland.  14 years on 4 clubs have survived the top 10 on Golf Australia's top 10.  Sadly Dane still no mention of Kerikeris 13th. 


 

[Dane Hawker]

Also no mention of North Shores Black Course 

[Ash Towe]

Interesting that the list only had 10 courses on it.  New Zealand is much deeper now and many of the older courses have made improvements.

[Grant Saunders]

Photographed this pic in the clubhouse today.  Top Ten from 1998.  Interesting to see the line up of courses before the renaissance (accepting Gulf Harbour and that other forgotten lass Formosa) came along.

1 Paraparaumu Beach
2 Wairakei
3 Christchurch GC (Shirley)
4 Gulf Harbour
5 Titirangi
6 Formosa
7 Auckland GC (now Royal) Middlemore
8 Wellington (now Royal) Heretaunga
9= Millbrook
9= New Plymouth (Ngamotu)

Interesting to see how a few of the new courses of the day made the grand entrance, Millbrook, Gulf Harbour and Formosa.  Also the prominence of the 3 big private clubs in Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland.  14 years on 4 clubs have survived the top 10 on Golf Australia's top 10.  Sadly Dane still no mention of Kerikeris 13th.  


  

Thanks for posting that Leo. It certainly makes for interesting reading.

One observation is the North Island bias in the 98 list with 8 courses versus 2 in the South. The current list now has the split at 6 North 4 South. I dont view this as the South having the best golfing land but rather the developers utilising the existing tourist market and piggy backing on this.

To me, the 98 list has a more "Kiwi Golf" feel about it than the new list. With the exception of Gulf Harbour and Formosa (which had both only just opened in 98) the others are all established courses that convey New Zealand golf to the player. While I will acknowledge the benefit the later projects have encouraged amongst our established courses, I cant help but feel that a golfer who comes to NZ and only plays the highly ranked KC, CK, Hills type courses are in fact missing out on what NZ golf is all about. Certainly most of our courses cant compete internationally in architecture or conditioning but Im not sure we should be trying so hard to do so. I would rather see the character of NZ golf embraced and promoted as such. Much as you dont travel to Scotland with the goal of only playing Loch Lommond, Gleneagles, Kingsbarns and now the Trump, it is important to search out the true representation of what local golf is actually about.

With this is mind, I nominate the following as my top ten "NZ Golf" courses:
(in no particular order)

Arrowtown
Oreti Sands
Paraparaumu Beach
Hamilton Golf Club
Jacks Point
Titirangi
Cromwell
Harewood
Millbrook (the new work)
Waihi

Honourable mention:

Manawatu
Mangakino

[Ash Towe]

It will be interesting to see what this list looks like in ten years time.  We know there is Tom Doak's new course to be built but I cannot think of any other new projects to be commenced in the near future.  Also will all the new developments survive? Will the club courses make a return to the list or go up from their present position.

[Scott Macpherson]

Hi Dane,

Gibbston valley is about 1500km away. That is literally of course. But it may also be a million miles away. No great deal of movement down there. It could be a stand-out course. The key will be the routing (as is always the case), but also the treatment of the landscape. My view is that it needs to be treated with a soft hand, and if so could be a longer, more varied and cultured version of Arrowtown (a course which I very much like). And that would be a great outcome. Watch this space.

scott

Grant, you need to come to RWGC.

[Grant Saunders]

Hey Scott

I checked out Royal Wellington earlier this year. As I hadnt seen he course prior, I cant comment too much on the change as such but based solely on the new product things look to be going well.

It didnt make my list as I havent played it (same reason for Cape Kidnappers not being on there). I wanted to produce a list that if someone told me they wanted to experience golf in NZ I would put forth my suggestions based on what I know personally.

[Leo Barber]

http://www.ohopegolf.co.nz/

Has anyone played this course.  To quote its website and I guess its author, Greg Turner - "The seaside terrain is as dramatic as anything in the british Isles and the views are exceptional.  This is links golf to match the very best anywhere".  I see they are looking for a Supt.  The aerials look fantastic.  Scott was this course considered at all for the write up in "True Links".  Would love to see some ground shots and some comment, this course looks understated and abviously that is quite some write up from Greg.

http://u.jimdo.com/www39/o/s9daa9adbbd642c86/img/ia33973c978428d4d/1341978956/std/image.jpg

[Tom_Doak]

http://www.ohopegolf.co.nz/

Has anyone played this course.  To quote its website and I guess its author, Greg Turner - "The seaside terrain is as dramatic as anything in the british Isles and the views are exceptional.  This is links golf to match the very best anywhere".  I see they are looking for a Supt.  The aerials look fantastic.  Scott was this course considered at all for the write up in "True Links".  Would love to see some ground shots and some comment, this course looks understated and abviously that is quite some write up from Greg.

http://u.jimdo.com/www39/o/s9daa9adbbd642c86/img/ia33973c978428d4d/1341978956/std/image.jpg

Leo:

There are hole by hole pictures on their web site which do not look as compelling as the aerial view on the home page ... a couple of little ponds, a lot of scattered trees, not as stark of a links as it looks from above.  [It almost doesn't even look like the same course.]  However, the par-3 second hole looks awesome to me.  Where exactly is this place in relation to Auckland?


Grant:

I appreciate your list of "NZ courses" but what makes Jacks Point eligible and The Hills not eligible?

[Scott Macpherson]

Hi Leo,

Yes, the 'Ohope International Golf Links' was very much considered. I thought it looked really interesting. The reason it didn't make it into 'True Links' was that it failed to meet the the authors criteria regarding fairway grasses. Ohope has Kikuyu fairways (but cool season turf greens).

Some consider the best holes to be 4,6 and 14. The Club was formed 1971,and the course opened in april 1975. It became 18 holes in 1986. The design is not credited to anyone specifically. But a renovation plan was made in 2002 by Alex Glasgow (of NZ Sports Turf Institute). The course is a par 71, 5686m long.

PS- Kaitaia, Waipu and Waitara missed out on inclusion in TR for the same reason as Ohope.

scott

[Grant Saunders]

Grant:

I appreciate your list of "NZ courses" but what makes Jacks Point eligible and The Hills not eligible?

The hills didnt make my list because I havent played it, I have only walked it a number of times.

Jacks point have gone for a low key product which is nice and understated in a Kiwi sort of way. The aesthetics of the place including the way it sits in the landscape generate a nice comfortable feeling for me. They have never felt the need to chase tournaments or big publicity to justify themselves such as Gulf Harbour with the world cup and Formosa with the NZ open. This course sits at one end of the spectrum of my list with Oreti and Waihi at the other.

The hills is a very different model in terms of what they have chosen to offer. High level service with all the bells and whistles. Ultra exclusive memberships for those who can afford it. They allow some greenfee play but at a price. I have no issue with their model or the course as such, but Im not sure I would ever personally recommend it as a NZ golf course or experience. I do feel though, it was a fantastic venue for the NZ open while it was there.

Has anyone played this course.  To quote its website and I guess its author, Greg Turner - "The seaside terrain is as dramatic as anything in the british Isles and the views are exceptional.  This is links golf to match the very best anywhere".  I see they are looking for a Supt.  The aerials look fantastic.  Scott was this course considered at all for the write up in "True Links".  Would love to see some ground shots and some comment, this course looks understated and abviously that is quite some write up from Greg.

The pictures are enough to make me want to go see it in person.

The club history is an interesting read and highlights the dedication of the members to get the place going. The reference to free use of a bulldozer is a little worrying though.

[Leo Barber]

[/quote]
 
Where exactly is this place in relation to Auckland?


[/quote]

Tom

Probably 3.5hr drive from Auckland south east.  Its on the East Coast out towards the big lump (East Cape) that juts out from the right hand side of the North Island.

Scott, Thanks for the clarification re Warm season grass criteria. 

Here are some Pics of my fav short par 3s (sorry Dane, no waterfalls or fountains)

3rd Oreti Sands



16 Arrowtown



10th Chisholm Park



14th Ngamotu (New Plymouth GC), Moses



7th Jacks Pt



16th Paraparaumu Beach



No photo of 13th CK and Grant still searching for 15 Waihi. 

[Matthew Mollica]

No photo of 13th CK and Grant still searching for 15 Waihi. 

Here's 13 at Kidnappers

[Leo Barber]

Cheers Matthew, one of the more "honest" photos of 13.  Normally we get the big sweeping cliffs view.  Great little hole.  Tough green where the 3 putt isnt that uncommon

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