Fircrest

[Garland Bayley]

Is there no photo tour of this course? I thought there was so didn't take pictures.

Gold Mountain Olympic just got booted down my favorites list by this course.

But then, if you know me you know I enjoy walking hilly golf, and you can understand my enthusiasm for Fircrest.

[Bill_McBride]

Another solid Macan. 

[Mike Hendren]

Garland, how about that whacky second hole?  Love the approach to a semi-punchbowl created by the knob in front of the green.  The 17th is another favorite.  Brad Klein likes to use a photograph of that green to show the effect of forestation - without the trees behind the green, Mt. Ranier was previously visible.  I also liked the 18th green quite a bit.  I need to re-visit.

Regardless of the architecture, Pacific Northwest golf is hard to be from a walk-in-the-park perspective.

Bogey

[Garland Bayley]

2 and 17 were real cool. Many of the holes were just plain beautiful, not to mention solid golf holes to boot.

The movement of the land in almost all the fairways was extensive and impressive. I had used Google Earth elevation tool to see how much elevation change there was before I went. I was surprised by what I found with it, but when I got there I knew what to expect.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Fircrest... with a couple little tweaks, top-100 in the U.S. - easy - IMHO.

[Mike Hendren]

Jeff, I don't see that but value your opinion.   Please elaborate.

Thanks.

Mike

[Garland Bayley]

Jeff,

With the caveat that I haven't see Eugene CC, I came away wondering how it could be better than Fircrest.

Pac Dunes gets some of its cred from having all that dunal movement in the fairways. Fircrest has similar movement without being built on dunes.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Jeff, I don't see that but value your opinion.   Please elaborate.

Thanks.

Mike

Sorry for the delayed response, Mike.

In brief, the bones are there at Fircrest - nice property, fine routing, some really cool greens. I've also seen some historic materials that suggest some of the original bunker schemes/looks were much more interesting/attractive than what you see out there today. Restoring bunkers, tweaking some grass lines, a bit of tree work, etc. would go along way at Fircrest, where the essential elements are already in place.

[Ronald Montesano]

Fir has a crest?

[Ben Sims]

Paging Jeff Mingay to update us on his bunker work at Fircrest.

[Jordan Caron]

Looks like he started earlier this week.

You can view some photos on his Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mingay-Golf-Course-Design/179821862051489

Jeff recommended a friend and I play here on our way back from Bandon but we got rained out. I'll have to hit it up in the summer.

[Ben Sims]

Jordan,

I saw that FB post earlier in the week. I was hoping that Jeff could give us some background and maybe another picture or two of his work at Fircrest. The more I learn, the more of an AV Macan fan I am becoming.

Please send a message when you return in the summer.

[Jordan Caron]

Jordan,

I saw that FB post earlier in the week. I was hoping that Jeff could give us some background and maybe another picture or two of his work at Fircrest. The more I learn, the more of an AV Macan fan I am becoming.

Please send a message when you return in the summer.

I'm sure Jeff has some more pics.

Do you play at Fircrest Ben?

I'm finally self employed and can't wait to do more trips this year because I have more than two weeks holidays! The most efficient one would be Washington State. Would love to play Fircrest, Tacoma, Broadmoor, Overlake and Inglewood. Maybe even try and see if Gamble Sands and Wine Valley could be tied in.

[Bill_McBride]

Isn't there another Macan in Tacoma?  Spanaway or something like that?

[Josh Tarble]

I was looking at Jeff's photos from Jordan's link...all I have to say is WOW:

[Garland Bayley]

Isn't there another Macan in Tacoma?  Spanaway or something like that?

Lake Spanaway was built from Mac's plans after his death.
Mac operated more like a building architect, who drew up the plans, and then providing some supervision of a construction company in the building.

[Bill_McBride]

Isn't there another Macan in Tacoma?  Spanaway or something like that?

Lake Spanaway was built from Mac's plans after his death.
Mac operated more like a building architect, who drew up the plans, and then providing some supervision of a construction company in the building.

With a few exceptions like Tom Doak and his crew, and Mike Young, that has always been the model.   Rod Whitman is another contractor who can build, he was on a D-4 or m-6 when we saw him at Cabot.

[Garland Bayley]

Isn't there another Macan in Tacoma?  Spanaway or something like that?

Lake Spanaway was built from Mac's plans after his death.
Mac operated more like a building architect, who drew up the plans, and then providing some supervision of a construction company in the building.

With a few exceptions like Tom Doak and his crew, and Mike Young, that has always been the model.   Rod Whitman is another contractor who can build, he was on a D-4 or m-6 when we saw him at Cabot.

To be more clear. Mac used different local construction personnel or company for most every job in my understanding.
My distinction was to differentiate from MacDonald with Raynor on every job, and from as you indicate Pete Dye, Gil Hanse, David Kidd, Tom Doak, Mike Young, and probably many others that I don't know the modus operandi of.

I believe Art Hills works more like Mac, as I believe he hires out the construction of his courses from his plans instead of having his own personnel to do it. The advantage that Art has is the availability of a large golf course construction company that can be hired for many jobs in many locals, so that he can deal with the same company over and over again.

[Ben Sims]

Jordan,

I don't get to play there as much as I'd like. Maybe more soon.

Josh,

That's a very telling photograph. For all intents and purposes, AV Macan has been ignored for too long. Recently (last decade or so) Jeff Mingay has held the torch for memberships and the general public alike on Macan re-education.  There's a nice video on Victoria Golf Club's website with Jeff in it taking about Mac.

Jim Urbina has told me a time or two "just let me take you to (insert Macan course) and it'll blow your mind."

Here's a couple of quotes attributed to Macan that should be the happy place for all GCA.com folks.

Golf was not conceived as a mechanical operation but rather full of fun and adventure. Many things could happen to the ball after it pitched on the green. The ill-happenings were not regarded as ill-fortune or ill-luck, but part of the adventure, and the more skilled found methods to overcome the risks of ill-fortune.

Speaking of Fircrest...

My idea was to design a golf course that while being a fine test of the game and calling for all the skill of the Hagen’s and Sarazen’s and the Barnes’ would at the same time provide a satisfactory test and full measure of enjoyment for the less skilled… yes, even for the dubs.

[Bill_McBride]

Isn't there another Macan in Tacoma?  Spanaway or something like that?

Lake Spanaway was built from Mac's plans after his death.
Mac operated more like a building architect, who drew up the plans, and then providing some supervision of a construction company in the building.

With a few exceptions like Tom Doak and his crew, and Mike Young, that has always been the model.   Rod Whitman is another contractor who can build, he was on a D-4 or m-6 when we saw him at Cabot.

To be more clear. Mac used different local construction personnel or company for most every job in my understanding.
My distinction was to differentiate from MacDonald with Raynor on every job, and from as you indicate Pete Dye, Gil Hanse, David Kidd, Tom Doak, Mike Young, and probably many others that I don't know the modus operandi of.

I believe Art Hills works more like Mac, as I believe he hires out the construction of his courses from his plans instead of having his own personnel to do it. The advantage that Art has is the availability of a large golf course construction company that can be hired for many jobs in many locals, so that he can deal with the same company over and over again.

Garland, watch my lips.  You single out Art Hills but that model is how 90% or more of golf courses are built.  There are but a handful of design-build golf architects. 

[Garland Bayley]

Isn't there another Macan in Tacoma?  Spanaway or something like that?

Lake Spanaway was built from Mac's plans after his death.
Mac operated more like a building architect, who drew up the plans, and then providing some supervision of a construction company in the building.

With a few exceptions like Tom Doak and his crew, and Mike Young, that has always been the model.   Rod Whitman is another contractor who can build, he was on a D-4 or m-6 when we saw him at Cabot.

To be more clear. Mac used different local construction personnel or company for most every job in my understanding.
My distinction was to differentiate from MacDonald with Raynor on every job, and from as you indicate Pete Dye, Gil Hanse, David Kidd, Tom Doak, Mike Young, and probably many others that I don't know the modus operandi of.

I believe Art Hills works more like Mac, as I believe he hires out the construction of his courses from his plans instead of having his own personnel to do it. The advantage that Art has is the availability of a large golf course construction company that can be hired for many jobs in many locals, so that he can deal with the same company over and over again.

Garland, watch my lips.  You single out Art Hills but that model is how 90% or more of golf courses are built.  There are but a handful of design-build golf architects. 

I guess that is why 90% or more of the golf courses don't reach the top of the rankings like Fircrest should.
I can't imagine what possessed the Golfweek raters to drop it out of the top 200 this year.

[Ben Sims]

I can't imagine what possessed the Golfweek raters to drop it out of the top 200 this year.

I guess it means that it's just not very good. 

[Garland Bayley]

I can't imagine what possessed the Golfweek raters to drop it out of the top 200 this year.

I guess it means that it's just not very good. 

Yes, I know they had to make room for all those strategic, cart path hidden, Fazio courses.

[Bill_McBride]

I can't imagine what possessed the Golfweek raters to drop it out of the top 200 this year.

I guess it means that it's just not very good. 

Yes, I know they had to make room for all those strategic, cart path hidden, Fazio courses.

I would say you are changing the subject, but why bother?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Sorry … I've been traveling a lot the past two weeks and missed Ben bringing this thread up.

We're just in the early, early stages of working on Fircrest. So there's nothing much to report. We did some subtle, experimental bunker work on the 13th hole (not the most exciting stuff out there, yet), removed sand build-up on the perimeter of that green and expanded the putting surface. The pattern of the fairway's also been adjusted, at 13. That's it, as far as physical work, for now.

However, I am in the process of starting a restorative-based Master Plan for the club. So, more soon … thanks for your interest. Again, Fircrest has some great potential that I'm very much looking forward to tapping …