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Patrick_Mucci

Understanding that most Open venues are converted local clubs, if you had artistic license and a blank slate how would you craft a course intended to test the best golfers in the world, what would your course look like ?

How would you design the par 5's, par 4's and par 3's.

What features would it have ?

Is it becoming apparent that no mere local course can offer that examination without radical amendments ?

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
In competitive golf the test is against the field, not the course.

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm not sure there's enough real estate anymore to do so.  Do the balls have to stop on the green when hit or putted in your hypothetical?

Sam Morrow

Thick rough, crazy greens. unkempt bunkers. If somebody goes low on that then you pat them on the back and say good job.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would try to follow Flynn's formula with fierce bunkers and sandbelt like conditions.  I suspect the course would far exceed 8000 yards.  Imagine Royal Melboune with the greens slowed down a bit but driver required off the tee for all but the very longest   

Patrick_Mucci

In competitive golf the test is against the field, not the course.

Jim,

You should notify the USGA ASAP as they seem to think that protecting par is paramount.

In addition, you didn't address the core issue.
How do you provide/present a THOROUGH examination of their game ?


JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
The core issue is a flawed premise...it's based on the assumption that the competition relies on exact tests. No two players perform the same tasks...they just try to get in the hole and only one does it best.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
 8) I'd plop them down in Bandon, 72 holes of golf played serially on the courses in the order of BD, BT, OM, and PD.

an 18 hole course played 4 times isn't enough challenge
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Mark Bourgeois

I don't know what kind of course but, assuming the same ball, who wants to watch or broadcast six hour rounds?

Patrick_Mucci

The core issue is a flawed premise...it's based on the assumption that the competition relies on exact tests. No two players perform the same tasks...they just try to get in the hole and only one does it best.

Jim,

The premise isn't flawed, your understanding of a thorough examination of a golfer's game is flawed.

Is it the water in Philly ? ;D




Steve Lang,

That's an interesting thought.

Plus, I do love the element of WIND

Guy Nicholson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Take one of the world's innumerable existing great examinations and impose a tournament ball?

TEPaul

The way I would present a thorough examination to the best golfers in the world would be to make them all take the latest and best IQ test followed by comprehensive SAT tests.   :-*

For those who fall below some fairly standard norm such as 100 on the IQ test and perhaps 500 on the SATs, I would apply to their tournament scores a deduction of strokes.

What this might accomplish would be interesting at the very least, even though it might not conform to the answer I got to my question to former Tour player, Charlie Bolling, a man who grew up at my own club.

I asked him, what, in his opinion, did it take to make it on Tour. After thinking it over he said: "You have to be either really smart or really dumb, anything in between is a perscription for disaster."

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Width, with preferred angles protected by hazards/playable rough
Greens with subtantial tilt to require optimum angles to approach greens advantageously.
Greenspeed lower to encourage tilt and slope on greens and also to support/allow firmness.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Open Championship does it best for me.

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
To start with, I would entrust the design of the exam to the College Board rather than the USGA.....
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Doug Lindahl

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would find a piece of rolling farmland and build my Oakmont.  The name of the game would be penal, but rewarding in nature. Misses would be severely punished by deep intimidating bunkers.  All bunkers would have to be boldly designed, even for the pros.  The greens would have to possess undulations that require huge borrow for break.  10 footers with 4 feet of break is both entertaining to play on and to watch the pros play on.  At least three greens that slope away from the player in some way would add to the variety.  Is it a necessity? No, but I would want it to be included on my Open test. Not necessarily treeless, but to top it off, fescue blowing in the wind.  Oakmont seems to have all these qualities.

Unlike Oakmont, I would want my course to be able to easily and strategically convert from wider fairways to the narrow runways the USGA seems to favor for an Open setup.  I really want to be able to have my grandmother play the course and, at the same time, the low handicapper to feel challenged in non-Open years. Oakmont, specifically, would present grandma with some challenges in approaching 5, 6 and 13 because she couldn't putt the ball on from the fairway. It is my hope, with this design feature incorporated, that my course can exist being locally supported.

As to specific par requirements (par 5, 4 and 3 design features) , I feel the USGA does what they want. You can design a great par five at 510 yards, but if you can't stretch it (in most instances) it will become a par four for them.  The par fives as a set (IMHO) should have two that are reachable and one three shotter. Pros are rarely confronted with true three-shot holes.  I look forward to watching 16 at Olympic Club this year.  I hate that the USGA tries to fit a driveable par four into most Opens. If it exists, or in the case of having a blank slate, if it belongs or can be fit into the design, then use it.  In other words, when these conditions don't naturally exist, stop trying to add excitement to my course by using the forward tees. Long par fours (over 460) will, for the foreseeable future, always be on the menu in an Open.  I'm ok with that and would design appropriate tournament tees to accommodate these conditions.  My par threes, as envied on this site many times, would have as much variety as I could find. You can bring out the uniqueness of a par three by creating it to traverse a difficult piece of land, link two holes, and/or complement the design as a whole.

Boldness and/or uniqueness/quirkiness in whatever way you can find it should be demanded from those seeking to design a course for hosting an Open.  My ultimate goal would be a course that makes both pros and laymen think and is entertaining and memorable to the average golf fan.    

Brian Hilko

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would use a lot of half par holes with penal bunkering. I prefer a setup like the pga championship were par isn't held sacred. I don't mind birdies as long as they are earned.
Down with the brown

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
The problem the USGA makes in trying to "present a thorough examination to the best golfers in the world" is that they try to do it on a golf course.  

A better way to do it would be to set up an indoor arena with a golf simulator and make players hit

10 x longest drivers.

10x accurate 3 woods

10 x accurate mid irons

10 x accurate short irons

10 x punch shots with irons

10 times accurate wedges

10 x chip shots

10 x flop shots

10 x long putts (half up hill and half down hill)

10 x mid range putts (half up hill and half down hill, half left to right, half right to left)

10 x short putts (half up hill and half down hill, half left to right, half right to left)

Tabulate the results and announce a winner.  
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Open Championship does it best for me.

I would agree when the wind is whipping. 

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
There's too much talk of rough on here!

Artistic license and a blank slate... I'm going to have hundreds of acres of closely mown turf and I don't care about the costs.

Endless undulations and well thought-out greens with naturally placed hazards that make the golf hole immeasurably more difficult if the approach and recovery shots are not executed with forethought and strategy. From tee to green, the golfer would be faced with landing zones hundreds of yards wide, though littered with hazards, bunkers, and mounds that provide risk/reward options galore. The closest real life representation to my course would be the 14th at St. Andrews (Long), though with more options in the landing zone.

I want my course to test for the best golfer, the smartest golfer, and importantly the golfer who understands his own abilities best.

Patrick_Mucci

Where's the love of skyline greens and greens that slope away from the golfer ?

Where's the love of deep, deep bunkers ?

Are they not elements of components of the examination ?

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would present the most variety filled course (with cohesiveness)
The player with the greatest variety of great shots would win
It would also be fun for the average player
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Firm, fast playing surfaces and meaningful angles created by lots of short grass and bold hazards.

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
As per the College Board (and other strict exams), institute a maximum time for each examination, with implements (clubs, pencil, etc.) DOWN when the invigilator calls "Time!"
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Dan Byrnes

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think the problem comes from the USGA hang up on par.  Take the best players and put them on a course that has a variety of challenges and offers opportunities to take risk for reward.  If they shot 32 under so be it. That fact that par was a good score 50 years ago on lesser conditioned courses and technologically inferior equipment doesn't mean they have to make it Mickey Mouse to keep the scores artificially high.  It doesn't identify the best golfer, just the one who shot the lowerst score that week.  They are not the same thing.

Also the other impediment is the variety of courses eligible.  As this is big business only certain courses have the infastructure to handle the demands.  That does nothing to identify the best golfer.

So it's a simple as picking a good course and letting them have at it.  Tricking it up probabally defeats the goal as luck can become more  important than skill in identifying e best golfer.  When good shots are not rewarded because of conditions you are doing more harm than good.

Dan