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Bob_Garvelink

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« on: June 02, 2012, 08:34:05 PM »
Hey Fellas,

I am going to have a chance to play both courses in the next few weeks as I am looking at getting a membership at one of these clubs.  I have really enjoyed reading all the posts about both courses.  I am playing Lost Dunes on June 4th around 11:00 after I get a tour of the facilities and will be playing Kingsley on June 21st.  (Probably around 2:00)  At this point I dont have a golf partner so if your interested in playing with me then send me a message.

Sounds like Lost Dunes has some fantastic greens and an amazing layout.  I am about an hour away from Lost Dunes which is very nice.  Kingsley on the other hand appears to have that "Northern Michigan" feel and our family spends alot of the summer in TC so it is also very tempting.  I am a laid back "country boy" and really want to learn more about the club atmosphere of both courses.  It appears that there are a number of members from both clubs on this forum so if anybody wants to chime in then I would appreciate it.

Thanks and "Hit em Straight"

Bob G.
"Pure Michigan"

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2012, 08:45:03 PM »
Bob,

Call me an idiot (many do) but I'd just go ahead and get one at both!  You can't go wrong with that!

Ken

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2012, 09:08:59 PM »
Bob, you will probably get a lot of opinions here as both courses get quite a bit of discussion here...I have never seen Lost Dunes - so please keep that in mind - my opinion is clearly biased.

I have heard only great things about Lost Dunes and hope to see it some day.  I have driven through it several times (I-94) - but it is really hard to get any sense of the course at seventy miles per hour!  Clearly proximity is in your favor there versus Kingsley - if you are looking for an easy place to get to and get more golf in, then it may make more sense for you.  I haven't played a Doak I haven't really enjoyed (High Pointe, Beechtree, Black Forest, Pacific Dunes, and Old MacDonald) - so I would expect it to be a great golfing experience.

With all that said, I think Kingsley is a very special place.  I think it is a great club because I think it is a course that you never get tired of playing. Each time I get excited on the first tee and sad when I finish.  I love the course and learn more each time I play it - there is currently a thread on his board about subtlety and Kingsley and I would agree - the course is both bold and subtle at the same time.  The boldness hits you over the head, but the subtlety takes a while to appreciate - but that is what I think is so cool and makes it a great member's course. As for the "up north" feel, it is all that and more.  The drive in is very cool and once you are on the property - the rest of the world just goes away.  One of my favorite parts of the course is making the turn around the dogleg on #14 - you feel like you are the only people in the whole world back there.  So quiet and so peaceful.

It is a golf club, so don't expect much more. And for a lot of us, it is just the way we like it.  I think it is a great course to walk, not sure if that is important to you or not.  The staff is nothing short of fantastic.  The cottages on the property are perfect for four guys and a long weekend.  The proximity to Traverse City is an added benefit - especially if you are already up there a lot.  I must admit though, when I am up there for a long weekend I usually bring a cooler with food to grill and never leave the property...it just doesn't get much better in my mind...

Enjoy your time at both clubs and please post when you get back and let us know what you you thought.

I will be up there on June 25th - a quick six rounds in one day...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 08:47:49 PM by Chris Hufnagel »

Bob_Garvelink

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2012, 11:33:09 PM »
Ken,

I dont think my wife will go for that :) 

Chris,

Good luck on the 100 hole hike and I think if I attempted that then I would pully a "hammy"

Bob G.
"Pure Michigan"

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2012, 01:18:08 AM »
Bob, from a golf perspective, I don't think you can go wrong at either course. They're both great golf courses, and a heck of a lot of fun to play. I've played more rounds at Kingsley, and I'd echo what Chris said about it being bold from the get go, but still noticing the subtleties after numerous rounds.

In terms of atmosphere, LD has a great clubhouse and locker room, a really nice bar, and a good pro shop and dining area. The staff was very professional. Kingsley has a very small clubhouse, no locker room, and it just felt a bit more laid back to me, and again, the staff is phenomenal. I fell in love with the place on my first visit.  I joined because I loved the course, really appreciated the staff, and I knew (and liked) a bunch of members. I'm sure you'll be happy with either one.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2012, 05:59:02 AM »
Bob:

If you are really interested in potentially joining Lost Dunes, you should meet Jeff Shearer, the developer.  I would be happy to put you in touch.  You can decide for yourself if the course is to your tastes, but I will personally vouch for Jeff as a great guy to work for and someone who watches over his baby very carefully.


Bob_Garvelink

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2012, 08:39:33 AM »
Bill Korbel

Bill,

Thanks for the information and I think you are right that both courses are amazing. 



Tom,

Thanks for the offer and I have been talking with Bill Korbel the most about the membership opportunities.  I have heard nothing but great things about LD so I am excited to see the facilities and conditions of the course.  Additionally, I will have the opportunity to play Black Forest in July so I cant wait to play another one of your terrific tracks!

Bob G.
"Pure Michigan"

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2012, 09:00:37 AM »
Bob,

Both courses are fantastic in my opinion.  In fact it was the pro at Lost Dunes who first told me about Kingsley. I'll IM you...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ted Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 08:53:00 AM »
I was a member at LD for 6 years, and I have played Kingsley twice.  Both are very good courses that can be enjoyable to play.  During my tenure as a member at LD, I was never satisfied with the conditioning of the course.  We used to say that if photographed better than it played.  The course is built with the intention of inviting the ground game, but we used to have our tee shots plug and back up (very frustrating).  I remember Kingsley being conditioned the way I wished LD was.  It has been a few years since I've played either (I am scheduled to play LD in 2 weeks), so not sure how both are maintained now.  Had LD been presented firm and fast, it would have been one of the funnest places to play (and hang out) in the midwest. 

TS

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2012, 09:32:58 AM »
I was a member at LD for 6 years, and I have played Kingsley twice.  Both are very good courses that can be enjoyable to play.  During my tenure as a member at LD, I was never satisfied with the conditioning of the course.  We used to say that if photographed better than it played.  The course is built with the intention of inviting the ground game, but we used to have our tee shots plug and back up (very frustrating).  I remember Kingsley being conditioned the way I wished LD was.  It has been a few years since I've played either (I am scheduled to play LD in 2 weeks), so not sure how both are maintained now.  Had LD been presented firm and fast, it would have been one of the funnest places to play (and hang out) in the midwest. 

TS

Hello Ted!

So not as firm as Hoylake?   ;D

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 11:37:15 AM »
Ted:

I applaud your honesty.  On my visit to Lost Dunes, I was struck by the soft conditions and the road noise.  Both were less than ideal. 

Bob:

Good luck and enjoy.

Bart

Ted Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2012, 02:13:27 PM »
Bart,  Honestly, the road stuff never bothered me much.  They really did a great job of minimizing its affects.  Just curious, when did you last visit there?

Bill,  DEFINITELY not as firm as RL!  (wasn't that fun!).

TS

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2012, 02:26:15 PM »
Bart,  Honestly, the road stuff never bothered me much.  They really did a great job of minimizing its affects.  Just curious, when did you last visit there?

Bill,  DEFINITELY not as firm as RL!  (wasn't that fun!).

TS

Really as fun as it gets!  I think Hoylake gets short shrift, what a fun place to play.

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2012, 05:17:57 PM »
Bart,  Honestly, the road stuff never bothered me much.  They really did a great job of minimizing its affects.  Just curious, when did you last visit there?

Bill,  DEFINITELY not as firm as RL!  (wasn't that fun!).

TS

Last fall.

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2012, 08:54:36 PM »
I was a member at LD for 6 years, and I have played Kingsley twice.  Both are very good courses that can be enjoyable to play.  During my tenure as a member at LD, I was never satisfied with the conditioning of the course.  We used to say that if photographed better than it played.  The course is built with the intention of inviting the ground game, but we used to have our tee shots plug and back up (very frustrating).  I remember Kingsley being conditioned the way I wished LD was.  It has been a few years since I've played either (I am scheduled to play LD in 2 weeks), so not sure how both are maintained now.  Had LD been presented firm and fast, it would have been one of the funnest places to play (and hang out) in the midwest.  

TS

Ted, I think many can confirm here that Kingsley still plays firm & fast.  Dan Lucas and his team do a fantastic job keeping the course in amazing shape and on the playable side of fast.  One of the most fun aspects of the course - and something I appreciate more after each visit - is looking for alternate approaches to shots and the variety of shots one can make and still get a desirable result. There are very few "prescribed" shots there - perhaps the most is the tee ball on #2 - many shots are only limited by one's imagination...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 09:40:18 PM by Chris Hufnagel »

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2012, 09:35:42 PM »
I was a member at LD for 6 years, and I have played Kingsley twice.  Both are very good courses that can be enjoyable to play.  During my tenure as a member at LD, I was never satisfied with the conditioning of the course.  We used to say that if photographed better than it played.  The course is built with the intention of inviting the ground game, but we used to have our tee shots plug and back up (very frustrating).  I remember Kingsley being conditioned the way I wished LD was.  It has been a few years since I've played either (I am scheduled to play LD in 2 weeks), so not sure how both are maintained now.  Had LD been presented firm and fast, it would have been one of the funnest places to play (and hang out) in the midwest. 

TS

Ted, I think many can confirm here that Kingsley still plays firm & fast.  Dan Lucas and his team do a fantastic job keeping the course in abreast shape and on the playable side of fast.  One of the most fun aspects of the course - and something I appreciate more after each visit - is looking for alternate approaches to shots and the variety of shots one can make and still get a desirable result. There are very few "prescribed" shots there - perhaps the most is the tee ball on #2 - many shots are only limited by one's imagination...

A crafty player could bounce one in on #2....
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2012, 09:51:18 PM »
I was a member at LD for 6 years, and I have played Kingsley twice.  Both are very good courses that can be enjoyable to play.  During my tenure as a member at LD, I was never satisfied with the conditioning of the course.  We used to say that if photographed better than it played.  The course is built with the intention of inviting the ground game, but we used to have our tee shots plug and back up (very frustrating).  I remember Kingsley being conditioned the way I wished LD was.  It has been a few years since I've played either (I am scheduled to play LD in 2 weeks), so not sure how both are maintained now.  Had LD been presented firm and fast, it would have been one of the funnest places to play (and hang out) in the midwest. 

TS

Ted, I think many can confirm here that Kingsley still plays firm & fast.  Dan Lucas and his team do a fantastic job keeping the course in abreast shape and on the playable side of fast.  One of the most fun aspects of the course - and something I appreciate more after each visit - is looking for alternate approaches to shots and the variety of shots one can make and still get a desirable result. There are very few "prescribed" shots there - perhaps the most is the tee ball on #2 - many shots are only limited by one's imagination...

A crafty player could bounce one in on #2....

I consider myself slightly-crafty, but don't think I could play that shot from 135-150 yards.  I would imagine the effective opening from the front left bunker to the downslope on the right is no more that 8 yards in width.  Certainly not impossible for the talented player, but I would more often than not take my chances with a long and right shot into the green and hope for the best.

I will get to play it 6 times here in just three weeks - perhaps one of the rounds I will give your approach a chance.

As for the HHH, I think an interesting side bet for the Kingsley hikers would be an aggregate "over/under" for #2 & #9 for the day. At six rounds, I would say 54 strokes would be a pretty good score to post...

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2012, 09:58:57 PM »
 ;D. I assure you, that is not my way  ;D.

I agree that the play is generally to the meat of the green and then 2 putt.  I accidentally hit one thin one time and got incredibly lucky on the roll up.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2012, 11:17:37 PM »

A crafty player could bounce one in on #2....

Good luck with that.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2012, 10:30:59 AM »
Luck is when hard work meets opportunity ;D
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2012, 01:09:40 PM »
The skull-*&^ happens to be a specialty of mine. I look forward to getting up to Kingsley this year to try to bounce one on #2.

I thought luck was the residue of design?

Bob_Garvelink

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2012, 05:08:15 PM »
I had the opportunity to play Lost Dunes yesterday and it was an amazing experience.  Let me first say that Lost Dunes has a unique “golf atmosphere” and I can see why it is one of the best golf clubs in the U.S.  Bill Korbel met me when I arrived and gave me a tour of the facility.  The clubhouse rivals that of Forest Dunes and I can only imagine the “war stories” that are told on the patio after a long day of golf. I was also able to see the “Ditka Cabin” and if you are looking to entertain friends or clients then Lost Dunes is the place for you.  The social aspect and atmosphere really separate Lost Dunes from the other clubs that I have played  The locker room was outstanding and I feel the facilities are second to none. 

Now for the golf course itself.  I feel that Tom Doak knocked this one out of the park as this course was very entertaining to play.  The scenery is indescribable and I feel the layout was amazing.  I am a sucker for elevated tee shots so I was in heaven all day long!  Although the greens were tough, I feel the course was very fair and it was not “tricked up” in my opinion.
I had the honor of having Dave as my caddie. I shot a 98 (44 on the front and a 54 on the back) and he kept me laughing the entire round.

Here were some of the highlights of my round.  The front night was great but the back nine really impressed me.

Hole # 2 – After smashing a drive off of an elevated tee I left myself a 7 iron approach shot.  The pin was front right so Dave suggested I aim for the front left of the green.  My ball funneled right into the pin and I was left with a 6 foot birdie putt.  Unfortunate I got “Doaked” and missed my putt but it was a solid start to my round.

Hole # 6 – A very long par 4 but another awesome elevated tee shot.  I had a solid drive followed up with a hybrid into the green.  I had my first double dipper putt of the round and ended up 4 putting.  My caddie Dave mentioned “Now you have experienced a Lost Dunes putt!” 

Hole # 12 – A 75 ft vertical drop off the tee box.  One of the best holes on the course and I was able to clear the traps on the right.  It left me with an 8 iron approach shot with a front left pin.  I was able to stick one within 4 feet and it was my one and only birdie of the round. 

Hole # 14 – Probably the most scenic hole on the course.  Another elevated tee (Yes I am in love with these  ;D) with a great view of the lake and bridge.  This is a great risk/reward hole and the pin happened to be tucked back right.  After sending my first two tee shots into the lake I finally wised up and decided to play it conservative.  I was battling a fierce wind but my approach shot funneled right toward the pin.  I was lucky with the pin placements the day I played because most of the pin placements funneled toward the pin.  There is nothing better than watching your ball rolling wildly towards the pin.

Hole #15 – A tough par 5 which is another great risk/reward hole.  You have to decide how much yardage you want to shave.  I smashed a drive into the wind and barely cleared the lake.  The large sand dune in the background was breathtaking.  After a hybrid layup shot I left myself a 8 iron approach shot at a pin that was on the upper tier.  I somehow made it on the upper tier and had a 5 foot birdie putt and then it happened folks…..I left my putt 2 feet short  :'(   Doak gave me the YIPS.

The only knock that I had on Lost Dunes was course conditioning.  I felt this course was meant to play fast and firm and the fairways were extremely soft.  My drives often plugged and the greens were very slow.  Maybe by design but I would of like the greens to play a bit faster.  I also noticed that most of the greens had a lot of “brownish” spots almost looked burnt up which to me was shocking.  I also noticed on hole # 9 there were 3 or 4 ruts which shocked me as well.  I was expecting a Forest Dunes conditioned course and frankly I was disappointed for the shape the course was in.  Some of the local 4 star public courses that I play are in far better shape than Lost Dunes.  Additionally I-94 really bugged me as I could hear loud traffic the majority of the round. 

Lost Dunes is a classy club and I really enjoyed my time there.  I can clearly see why it is one of the best clubs in the U.S. and the golf atmosphere is second to none.  Staff and members should be extremely proud of their facility and thanks for making it a memorable day for me.

Bob G.

"Pure Michigan"

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2012, 05:12:37 PM »
Regarding the conditioning, what has the weather been like in that part of Michigan this year?  It has seemed to me, and people who know better have confirmed, that we have had an almost perfect Spring here in Washington from a conditioning perspective -- and most courses appear to be in great shape.  True there as well? 

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2012, 05:19:55 PM »
Bob:

The "lake" is out of site on the other side of the dunes.  What you saw on the course are ponds.

Surprising that the course played that soft.  In general, the midwest has had a pretty dry spring so far.  We did get a good bit of rain last week, but the courses here in Chicago seem to have dried out pretty well since then.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2012, 05:32:50 PM »
Regarding the conditioning, what has the weather been like in that part of Michigan this year?  It has seemed to me, and people who know better have confirmed, that we have had an almost perfect Spring here in Washington from a conditioning perspective -- and most courses appear to be in great shape.  True there as well? 

Michigan, in general, had a very mild winter, a very early and warm start to spring, then a cold spell (which has devastated the cherry, apple, and peach orchards), followed by a really nice April and May.  Last weekend was a bit wet and we are headed towards a warm-up this next weekend.  Kingsley was in great shape the first week of May and would assume it is better now...