Should Bandon Allow Limited Cart Play?

[John Kavanaugh]

At my age if I am walking 36 it ain't going to be in white shorts.  Carts are the very least of embarrassing aids that age brings into play.  One of the realities of my playing group is that we need a cart to retrieve whatever we have forgotten on the previous hole.

[Dan King]

Rick Shefchik writes:
Just a guess, but I believe most of those who vehemently object to carts under any circumstances are relatively young and sturdy, whereas those who would like to see at least a limited use of carts are older and creakier.

Even when I was young, few would have ever called me sturdy. Now I'm neither young or sturdy.

I think carts have been bad for golf. I love that there is one place in the U.S. that actively discourages cartball. Yes, life would be easier if I could ride a cart around during a second round. Life would also be easier if I just played my rounds at a golf simulator. Neither are golf, but both are reasonable facsimiles of golf.

For those of you oldsters like myself and Rick, there are numerous solutions to making walking the second 18 easier. As Mr. Johnson mentioned earlier, lighten your bag. No rule says you have to lug around 14 clubs. Try playing with 5-6, you'll be shocked how light the bag is. Also for those little aches and pains, Oregon is a medical cannabis state.

It does seem to be an American thing: It isn't up to the individual to change, but rather the institution should change to fit the individual. How many whining about how tough it is to play 36 holes on foot have ever tried reducing the number of clubs they carry?

Cheers,
Dan King

The emblem on the necktie reserved for the members of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews -- The Vatican of golf -- is of St. Andrew himself bearing the slatier cross on which, once he was captured at Patras, he was to be stretched before he was crucified. Only the Scots would have thought of celebrating a national game with the figure of a tortured saint.
 --Alister Cooke

[Pete Lavallee]

My first round at Bandon Dunes was on the morning of 9-11-01, My wife and I played with a couple who were in their late 60's. They obviously had mecical certificates, but considering the amount of walking outside the cart that they did, they could have easily walked the course with a caddy. The point that escapes most people here is that to take the medically approved cart a caddy MUST drive it. It is not readily apparent where you can or should take the cart. Some transitions from greens to the next tees are not obvious. If left to navigate alone I am absolutely certain that people would trash the place in less than year. Don't forget the architecture was envisioned without the necessary paths or access points that carts would need. Just be thankful that Mr. keiser does allow people to have the experience with the medical certificate in hand. Count me as one who thinks the current system is perfect!

[Kalen Braley]

Dan,

The weight issue is easily overcame...just use a pull cart.

Its more an issue of being on ones feet for 4-5 hours straight.  I walk 18 when iI play here locally....except the really hilly places like Indian Canyon.  So when playing 36 holes, thats now anywhere from 9-12 hours on your feet and that just too much for a lot of guys including me.

P.S.  You know its sad when we have to talk about smoking pot to "endure" a round of golf.  Maybe some people don't mind being in agony for golf, but I'm not one of them.

[Rick Shefchik]

Rick Shefchik writes:
Just a guess, but I believe most of those who vehemently object to carts under any circumstances are relatively young and sturdy, whereas those who would like to see at least a limited use of carts are older and creakier.

Even when I was young, few would have ever called me sturdy. Now I'm neither young or sturdy.

I think carts have been bad for golf. I love that there is one place in the U.S. that actively discourages cartball. Yes, life would be easier if I could ride a cart around during a second round. Life would also be easier if I just played my rounds at a golf simulator. Neither are golf, but both are reasonable facsimiles of golf.

For those of you oldsters like myself and Rick, there are numerous solutions to making walking the second 18 easier. As Mr. Johnson mentioned earlier, lighten your bag. No rule says you have to lug around 14 clubs. Try playing with 5-6, you'll be shocked how light the bag is. Also for those little aches and pains, Oregon is a medical cannabis state.

It does seem to be an American thing: It isn't up to the individual to change, but rather the institution should change to fit the individual. How many whining about how tough it is to play 36 holes on foot have ever tried reducing the number of clubs they carry?

I have, and I will. I thought I made it pretty clear I wasn't whining about Bandon's policy. I was just pointing out some inescapable demographic trends.

[Brent Hutto]

Demographics aside, there's a pretty inescapable trend that every decade sees the game become more about carts and less about walking. There was a NLE nine-hole "executive" course (four Par 4's, five Par 3's) near my home had one modest hill that you descended on the first hole then came back up on sixth. Maybe 20 feet of elevation change. Otherwise flat, short, as easy a walk as one could ever imagine.

The last couple times I was there before it was bulldozed the average age of walking golfers was about 50-60 and the average age of cart-riding golfers was about 25 years old. The high school, college, twenty-something kids had absolutely zero interest in walking that dinky piece of property either carrying their bag or using the free pull carts. Only us old fogeys had any idea of golf being a walking activity.

Nothing to do with demographics in the larger world (folks paying several thousand bucks for a week at Bandon being a very specialized subset). The game is now about riding in a cart. Period.

[Dan King]

Kalen Braley writes:
So when playing 36 holes, thats now anywhere from 9-12 hours on your feet and that just too much for a lot of guys including me.

I'm still curious. Have you ever tried playing 36 carrying just 6 clubs?  I think most of you would be surprised how easy walking becomes.

You know its sad when we have to talk about smoking pot to "endure" a round of golf.  Maybe some people don't mind being in agony for golf, but I'm not one of them.

I don't do it to endure, I do it to enhance the round of golf. I was just offering a suggestion to those that have minor aches and pains. It works much better than aspirin, is safer and much more fun.

Rick Shefchik writes:
I thought I made it pretty clear I wasn't whining about Bandon's policy. I was just pointing out some inescapable demographic trends.

If you weren't whining, then obviously my whining comment was not addressed to you.

Cheers,
Dan King

I hasten to say to snobs from the Surrey pine-and-sand country that no invention since the corn plaster or the electric toothbrush has brought greater balm to the extremities of the senior golfer than the golfmobile, a word that will have to do for want of a better.
 --Alister Cooke

[John Kavanaugh]

Dan is right.  Anyone who can afford to go to Bandon can afford to go to an equally great cart ball course.  I was being selfish for thinking anything else.  I apologize.

[Kalen Braley]

And to go along with Brent's comments...I don't know if I see a problem with the evolution of golf.

Hell everything in society has evolved.  All of the following are obviously new to the world,,,,and I'm sure all of the following can be claimed as a downfall of society depending on who you talk to:

The internet
Owning a Cell Phone
Modern automobiles
Using a microwave
Flying on Airplanes
Modern computer based voting systems
Web based news vs papers.
Fax machines.
Twitter
Facebook

Etc, etc, etc....I can list these all night

And on GCA.com, its using carts on the course while the rest of the world says Whats the Big Deal 

[Dan King]

John Kavanaugh writes:
Dan is right.  Anyone who can afford to go to Bandon can afford to go to an equally great cart ball course.  I was being selfish for thinking anything else.  I apologize.

My God, John, I have no idea how to respond to that! I think I'll leave it to a former U.S. President below.

Cheers,
Dan King

Golf in the interest of good health and good manners. It promotes self-restraint and affords a chance to play the man and act the gentleman.
  --President Taft

[Kalen Braley]

Dan,

The last time I walked 36 holes in a day would be about 12 years ago as as 30 year old.  While it was exhausting, I managed despite very sore feet the next couple of days.

If I tried it now, I'm not sure if I could get out of bed the next morning.  Once again, I feel golf is something to be enjoyed, not a torture test.

P.S.  I think your Cannabis idea is actually a good one! 

[John Kavanaugh]

Kalen,

Last weekend I spent considerable time at the Smithsonian reviewing the changes our society has embraced over the last few hundred years.  You missed perhaps the most controversial change of all.  Military Drones.  Some of these walkers remind me of the terrorist leaders who protest the use of drones.  As the saying goes, war is war and golf is golf.

[Rick Shefchik]

I now have this inescapable image of the 300-pound William Howard Taft merrily wandering the golf course with a wicked Sensimilla buzz.

[Daryl David]

One thing I have learned from this thread is that I am not the only one with legs, hips and knees that hurt.  The guys I play with on golf trips seem to breeze through 7 days of 36 a day and I lay in bed at night crying like a 12 year old.  Nice to know I am not the only person with bad wheels.

That said if you are listening Mike K., don't change a thing at Bandon.  It is perfect.  When I can't walk anymore, it will be nice to know that the next generation of golfers are experiencing it just like I used to. (lying in bed crying)

[Garland Bayley]

...
The last couple times I was there before it was bulldozed the average age of walking golfers was about 50-60 and the average age of cart-riding golfers was about 25 years old. The high school, college, twenty-something kids had absolutely zero interest in walking that dinky piece of property either carrying their bag or using the free pull carts. Only us old fogeys had any idea of golf being a walking activity.
...

Sometimes you can convert those 25 year olds. We had a couple of young buddies join our club with their shared cart. The first time I met them they caught my group waiting on a par 3 tee, I asked them if they played basketball. They said yes, they love basketball. I asked them if they used a cart for their pickup games. We hit our shots and moved on. They now walk probably more than 90% of their rounds. I haven't seem them ride yet this year, and am wondering if they decided the cart barn rental was not worth it any more.

[Tim Pitner]

As has been pointed out, you do not have to play 36 holes a day at Bandon.  If you can't walk 72 holes in two days, don't.  If you don't want to go to Bandon if you can't play 36 holes a day, go elsewhere.

An enduring image for me at Bandon is of a 75+ year old (honestly, he looked about 100) man in plus fours literally sprinting from the 18th green at Bandon Dunes to the 1st tee to play his second round of the day while we thirtysomethings trudged in after our morning 18 on the second day of our trip.  This man embodied the spirit of Bandon Dunes--embrace it.  

Sure, the walking can be painful--I'm thinking of a trip to Bandon soon after my ACL surgery--but the cost to the experience at Bandon of allowing carts would be too high and the fix (play fewer holes) is rather obvious.  

[John Kavanaugh]

...
The last couple times I was there before it was bulldozed the average age of walking golfers was about 50-60 and the average age of cart-riding golfers was about 25 years old. The high school, college, twenty-something kids had absolutely zero interest in walking that dinky piece of property either carrying their bag or using the free pull carts. Only us old fogeys had any idea of golf being a walking activity.
...

Sometimes you can convert those 25 year olds. We had a couple of young buddies join our club with their shared cart. The first time I met them they caught my group waiting on a par 3 tee, I asked them if they played basketball. They said yes, they love basketball. I asked them if they used a cart for their pickup games. We hit our shots and moved on. They now walk probably more than 90% of their rounds. I haven't seem them ride yet this year, and am wondering if they decided the cart barn rental was not worth it any more.

Garland,

Besides the obvious cost factor maybe they got tired of catching the groups walking.  The flow of an entire course works when everyone is either walking or riding.  Even a kid can figure that out without getting another boring fable from Aesop himself.

[Dan King]

Couldn't find a picture of Taft both hitting the bong and golfing, but he sure looks like a guy that gave into the munchies.


And does anyone believe he would ride around on a water buffalo without first partaking of some Maui Wowie?


John Kavanaugh writes:
You missed perhaps the most controversial change of all.  Military Drones.  Some of these walkers remind me of the terrorist leaders who protest the use of drones.  As the saying goes, war is war and golf is golf.

And cartball is cartball.

Let's not forget saran wrap. "You can look through it, you can put three olives in it, you can put 10 sandwiches in it--it's clear, it clings and it sticks."

Cheers,
Dan King

If they [presidents] can't do it to their wives, they do it to their country.
 --2,000-year-old Man

[Terry Lavin]

One thing I have learned from this thread is that I am not the only one with legs, hips and knees that hurt.  The guys I play with on golf trips seem to breeze through 7 days of 36 a day and I lay in bed at night crying like a 12 year old.  Nice to know I am not the only person with bad wheels.

That said if you are listening Mike K., don't change a thing at Bandon.  It is perfect.  When I can't walk anymore, it will be nice to know that the next generation of golfers are experiencing it just like I used to. (lying in bed crying)

I know Mike Keiser and he would love your attitude, trust me.

[Garland Bayley]

...The flow of an entire course works when everyone is either walking or riding.  Even a kid can figure that out without getting another boring fable from Aesop himself.

More BS from Barney. The flow of an entire course works when everyone understands the accepted flow and adheres to it whether walking or riding. This is more likely to occur at a private course with much repeat play by the regulars. As soon as someone that plays infrequently shows up and adheres to their own personal pace whether in cart or on foot, the flow gets upset.

[John Kavanaugh]

...The flow of an entire course works when everyone is either walking or riding.  Even a kid can figure that out without getting another boring fable from Aesop himself.

More BS from Barney. The flow of an entire course works when everyone understands the accepted flow and adheres to it whether walking or riding. This is more likely to occur at a private course with much repeat play by the regulars. As soon as someone that plays infrequently shows up and adheres to their own personal pace whether in cart or on foot, the flow gets upset.

Garland,

Would you at least agree that sometimes that personal pace is too fast.  Both walkers and riders can be guilty of a hurry up and wait attitude when a simple pace that reflects the group in front of you is more pleasing for both parties.  Maybe you are fortunate not to play where cart path only or other restrictions makes some holes play less fluid than others.  It is the likeness of play between groups that produces a flow like a gentle stream.  Surely you enjoy that to the spastic flow of a rusty faucet.

The absolute truth of the matter is that some holes play faster for cart riders and some faster for walkers.  It is only by having everyone play the same that you can prevent this accordion effect.

Keeping this on topic, this is why I fully support the notion that carts would disrupt the subtle beauty of Bandon.

[Sam Morrow]

Bandon should open a par 3 course and people can walk that if they can't go 36, problem solved.

[Rick Shefchik]

Couldn't find a picture of Taft both hitting the bong and golfing, but he sure looks like a guy that gave into the munchies.


And does anyone believe he would ride around on a water buffalo without first partaking of some Maui Wowie?

Taft must have set back the cause of golf as exercise a good 20 years or more. He was apparently a bit tone-deaf to the impression he was making, as well: he once took on Walter Travis and vice president James S. Sherman in a best ball match in which the president's partner was a Washington golfer named Allan Lard.
 

[Sean Leary]

Bandon should open a par 3 course and people can walk that if they can't go 36, problem solved.

Totally agreed. Maybe have Coore and Crenshaw design it?

[Sam Morrow]

Bandon should open a par 3 course and people can walk that if they can't go 36, problem solved.

Totally agreed. Maybe have Coore and Crenshaw design it?

I would think outside the box and make it a strange number of holes and if they really cared about the world they would donate the money to charity. They should send me a shirt for all these ideas.