[Dan King]

Mark Pritchett writes:
You should really say the trend is going the wrong way according to you, not as an absolute.

Of course it was according to me. Even you were able to figure that out. Do you really want me to put IMHO after every thought I post?

What do you mean by "you people"?

Why don't you take a shot at guessing who I mean by "you people."  I really don't think it is that tough of a guess given the context.

Kalen, wouldn't the Judge, Jury and Executioner be Mr. Keiser?  Melvyn and I are only weighing in on a subject in this forum. I can understand with your weak arguments not wanting anyone to oppose your views, but this is a place for discussion and debate. All you need to do is come up with better arguments.

Cheers,
Dan King

Anyone nit-picking enough to write a letter of correction to an editor doubtless deserves the error that provoked it.
 --Alvin Toffler

[Mark Pritchett]

Dan,

I get the feeling that you believe the playing of golf in a manner different from your idealistic method is not "true" golf or "pure" golf or whatever you choose to call it.  Perhaps I am wrong.  

Mark  

[Kalen Braley]

Dan,

The arguments presented in this thread are valid... just because you and Melyvn just choose not to agree with them, does not change thier intrinsic nature and make them "invalid".  I will continue to be inclusive of all, and you can continue to be a divisive closet Bush boy.   

[Dan King]

Mark Pritchett writes:
I get the feeling that you believe the playing of golf in a manner different from your idealistic method is not "true" golf or "pure" golf or whatever you choose to call it.  Perhaps I am wrong.  

I'm not going to say IMHO after everything I post, but please recognize what I am going to say is my opinion.

I think the original intent of golf carts was a good thing. Golfers that did not have the physical ability to play a round of golf could still get out to the golf course and play golf. This was noble and a good thing.

However, the prevalent use of carts in the golf world has changed the game. Courses are now designed that can not be walked. There are courses out there that can be walked but for economic reasons golfers are not allowed to walk. It's brought many people to a game who really do not understand the grand traditions of the game. It's slowed down the game.

The move from golf to cartball has been bad for the game.

Kalen Braley writes:
The arguments presented in this thread are valid...

I didn't say they were invalid, just weak. I think there have been valid arguments on this thread, but I was referring to your arguments.

just because you and Melyvn just choose not to agree with them, does not change thier intrinsic nature and make them "invalid".

I think you should look up the word intrinsic. I don't think you understand the meaning of the word.

I will continue to be inclusive of all

This is why you want 100 percent compliance with your wishes?

and you can continue to be a divisive closet Bush boy

I have no idea what this is about.

Cheers,
Dan King

It ought to be called cartball. It isn't even golf.
 --Sandy Tatum

[Mark Pritchett]

One of my favorite places in golf is a walking only course. 

I do not feel compelled to worry about how other people go about their golf, let alone try to label what it should be called. 

[Michael George]

I wonder what sport Casey Martin will be playing at the US Open next week?

Per Melvyn, the USGA could have a champion of a sport that does not exist.

[Mark Pritchett]

We now have cartball, caddyball, pushcart ball and carryball, all versions of what used to be called golf. 

[Dan King]

Mark Prichett writes:
I do not feel compelled to worry about how other people go about their golf, let alone try to label what it should be called. 

Sounds like your beef is with Mr. Tatum.

Cheers,
Dan King

Golf is not a good walk spoiled. It is becoming a good walk prohibited. Show me the common sense in this and I promise I will relent. But there is no common sense at all in the prohibition of walking.
 --Lorne Rubenstein

[Melvyn Morrow]

Kalen

Using a cart when playing golf is not playing golf. You and others think it is but the fact that you do not walk kills your argument stone dead. The traditions of 600 years dictate that walking is the way the game is played.

The R&A in their stupidity and gross betrayal of the game and their duty of care to the game of golf authorised their use, yet not in The Open. So according to the R&A they are partly legal or acceptable, yet morally, and traditionally they are a betrayal over what golf stands for which is walking and thinking.

Because you and others use carts does not make them acceptable to real golfers. However commitment is not high on those who prefer to ride taking the lazy option. I suspect the real problem is that riders have difficulty in thinking and co-ordinating their brains so need help, hence why GPS is being fitted to carts. Try to keep you to your cart paths or find you if you get lost on a course with blind Holes.

You have betrayed the heart and spirit of the game by Riding, yet you cannot see it. Go play you version but just call it by its true name and stop belittling the great game of golf by associating it with carts.

Melvyn

PS Courses that ban walking should be forced to remove the name Golf from their title and any designer involved with no walking courses is no friend to the Royal & Ancient game of golf. Tell me what is the Judas rate to design a No Walking course?

[Mark Pritchett]

I am not aware of any courses in my area that prohibit walking.  

[Terry Lavin]

I think it can't be called a golf course unless horses pulled the plows that dug the bunkers.

[Jud_T]

Terry,

Are you taking up 16" softball for a summer league?  Because you certainly served one up here....

[Mike Hendren]

According to Melvyn I'm not a "real golfer."

What am I?

A fake golfer?
A counterfeit golfer?
A bogus golfer?
Just a dude?
An imaginary golfer?
An erstwhile golfer?
A wannabe golfer?
A surreal golfer?
A golfer non grata?
A fictitious golfer?
An ostensible golfer?
An artificial golfer?
A so-called golfer?
A sham golfer?
A spurious golfer?
An illegitimate golfer?
A bastard golfer?
A meretritious golfer?
A fraud?
A hoax?
A posuer?

Well?

[John Kavanaugh]

On a majority of my rounds I am left with the choice of a cart for $25 or a caddie for $75.  I will take the cart to save the $50 despite preferring the caddie.  Now my buddies, who double strap click and carry, run from the $25 cart fee.  This is a cheapness paradox only found in golf.

As in all issues in life this argument can be solved by following the money.

[Brent Hutto]

The history of golf carts and the USA golf culture has been a combination of "follow the money" and "I've got a hammer and I'm looking for a nail". Once a fleet of carts has been leased, gassed up and is sitting there ready to be used you've set up a situation that in the long term is going to demand that every golfer on the property rent and use one of those carts, whether he wants to or not.

It may not be something that can be forced on people this year or even this decade but eventually the combination of someone having already put those carts right there by the clubhouse and that same somebody getting paid real money every time a golfer sits in one will wear down the resistance just as sure as one little trickle of a stream will eventually wear away a gigantic slab of granite.

[John Kavanaugh]

Brent,

That is simply not true.  Many members are already tapped out at $600/month plus food minimums.  Make them take a cart and they are gone.  There are so few course owners left that the ones remaining are not that stupid.

[Brent Hutto]

OK, you probably have a point for the $10,000 a year clubs. About halfway down the food chain where I live it seems to come down to the member owned clubs keep on walking while the for-profit clubs gradually restrict (although not necessarily totally eliminate) their members to using carts. At least during prime times. It's just irresistible even when they're hemorrhaging members month after month.

[Kalen Braley]

I think a few of you were born in the wrong age.  These people are "your" people and would have shared your exclusionary viewpoints!! 

[Carl Nichols]

On a majority of my rounds I am left with the choice of a cart for $25 or a caddie for $75.  I will take the cart to save the $50 despite preferring the caddie.  Now my buddies, who double strap click and carry, run from the $25 cart fee.  This is a cheapness paradox only found in golf.

As in all issues in life this argument can be solved by following the money.

Paradox or perhaps irrationality.  Consider how much a year you spend on golf, including carts, and then how much more you would spend if you took caddies just for those rounds you play on courses you could walk (and would rather walk).  I suspect that the additional cost is a relatively small percentage of your overall golf spend . . . and one might even say it's irrational not to spend it, given that you prefer caddies.

[John Kavanaugh]

Carl,

I sadly play an uber amount.  Where I play my most golf and they offer caddies I am able to buy a yearly golf cart pass for $1200.  Let's just say that the difference between caddies and carts equals my dues at Dismal.  What's irrational now?

[Dan King]

Kalen Braley writes:
I think a few of you were born in the wrong age.  These people are "your" people and would have shared your exclusionary viewpoints!!  Grin

Yet another strong argument from Mr. Braley.

Cheers,
Dan King

What's really interesting about that is that a lot of these words that were incendiary in their time now seem almost harmless and laughable, because they have this archaic quality.
 --Philip Kaufman

[Melvyn Morrow]

Able-bodied players who resort to carts do not have the commitment let alone real understanding what golf is all about. Add GPS to their carts raises a question do they even know where they are or which course they are playing.

Want to play golf, then simply Walk and discard distance and other outside aids.

In the end the choice is yours, honour the game and its traditions or F@#k them.

[Carl Nichols]

Carl,

I sadly play an uber amount.  Where I play my most golf and they offer caddies I am able to buy a yearly golf cart pass for $1200.  Let's just say that the difference between caddies and carts equals my dues at Dismal.  What's irrational now?

Aren't you a member at other places, too?  And how much do you spend on everything else golf-related, like the travel to get to Dismal or your other club(s), balls, shirts, hats, etc., etc. 

But if you're playing 200 times a year, I agree that it will add up.  Sadly, my number is closer to 35.

[John Kavanaugh]

Carl,

I sadly play an uber amount.  Where I play my most golf and they offer caddies I am able to buy a yearly golf cart pass for $1200.  Let's just say that the difference between caddies and carts equals my dues at Dismal.  What's irrational now?

Aren't you a member at other places, too?  And how much do you spend on everything else golf-related, like the travel to get to Dismal or your other club(s), balls, shirts, hats, etc., etc. 

But if you're playing 200 times a year, I agree that it will add up.  Sadly, my number is closer to 35.

If I only played 35 times per year it would be irrational not to spend an additional $5 per day taking caddies.  I spend more than that on Red Bull and cold Pop Tarts trying to stay awake driving to play golf.   

[Will Lozier]

Able-bodied players who resort to carts do not have the commitment let alone real understanding what golf is all about. Add GPS to their carts raises a question do they even know where they are or which course they are playing.

Want to play golf, then simply Walk and discard distance and other outside aids.

In the end the choice is yours, honour the game and its traditions or F@#k them.

Melvyn,

Curious if this is your sentiment towards Casey Martin?  As much as I agree with many of your points, and respect your old school passion for the roots of the game, you come off sounding bitter...and it saddens me.  Especially when such words (to my ear) seem contrary to that very same passion.

Cheers...and have a restful night!

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