--How can you possibly say the Yale is a RR design? Scott, I didn't say Yale was a RR design. But give him some time, and I'm sure a piece of that endowment money will be looking really good to him, and he will suggest a complete remodel--by his hands of course.
I wouldn't have to worry about it being built today, because it never would. RR's design on this property, almost any architect's for that matter, would be absolutely different. Holes like #10, #12, and #18 don't get bult any more. They are different because of Raynor, not RR. I haven't seen it, but I'm sure Mike Benham will disagree with you about Brian Silva's really neat rendition of the Biarittz at Black Creek. Perry Dye has made a career out of trying to emulate his father, who's emulating Seth Raynor to some degree. And for that matter, Raynor should then also be castigated for emulating Mother Nature and many even older classic architects in his designs. I salute the fact that many golf architects, looking for inspiration rely on designs that influenced them, more then many of them were influenced by Seth Raynor.
"One blind shot is too many for most modern designs not to mention the numerous ones at Yale."Did you know that Roger Rulewich, a Yale alumni and ASGCA member is widely known for the huge degree of blindness in his designs? In fact, he is known in the profession as the man that practices it the most. (I wonder what course could have inspired him to this degree?
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In considering that he is the consulting architect at Yale, you think he would take notice of the ever-shrinking putting surface problems at Yale as well as the putting surfaces that once existed there and that were removed by someone else. Look at Geoff Childs pictoral evidence from the 18th hole See how the green literally climbs up that knob in the right corner and actually wraps around the inverted Raynor/Macdonald dune-like mound. For those of you that are shot-makers, and judge the courses for the intensity and the value of each shot, what would you think of a pin in that back corner?
Scott, are you stating that no one besides Raynor & Mac would have done the roller coaster routing that is Yale. Well, what about Bel Air, the site of what was once a brilliant routing by Billy Bell at San Pedro Golf & CC or the old back nine at Ojai before it was altered? What about Pine Valley?
Granted, Raynor's work to blow out hole #7 from the side of that mountain is impressive, I'm sure Jeff Mingay or anyone else who has seen Banff can tell you that Stanley Thompson blew-up an even bigger mountain creating that routing. In the modern world, come out to La Habra, and I'll show you a routing filled with all sorts of blind shots by Damian Pascuzzo that should have just been built as a ride for nearby Disneyland, it is that wild--and unplayable.
Scott, What are you hoping to accomplish by mentioning Riviera? You haven't seen Riviera and really don't know what Fazio has done there other then what you have seen in the pictures we have posted, which certainly does look horrible in any media. But can you comment on what it is replacing, and how Fazio and Marzloff want to change the course by adding features that are totally alien to the masterful architecture at Riviera?
Do you understand that it is all much more then a very non-Thomas/Bell-like serpentine bunker that looks like it belongs at Pelican Hill-South, or the newly crowned greens at holes #8 & 13. Or how about the Great Mayan pyramid tee on #5? What about the hidden-tee so far back on #12 that has been used just one time in the Nissan Open?
You quite obviously have never met Bill Coore, because you would know for a FACT that he would never be so bold to claim anything he had done to a golf course that was the embodiment and last sign that Captain George C. Thomas really did exist. (Thanks Redanman for that pogniant observation.) In fact, I do think Bll Coore would take it as a polite insult, if indeed you were suggesting he was trying to upstage the Captain.
Roger Rulewich on the other hand has told the Director of Golf at Yale that he IS a Golf Architect, NOT a Historian. I think that should sum it up as far as Seth Raynor and Yale is concerned.
2.-Coore & Crenshaw in a comparison as Roger Rulewich? What I have seen of Yale, C&C would never ever want to claim that dreck as their work. I'm sure Tom Fazio would feel the same, but I don't want to speak for Tom Fazio--EVER. Speculating for him is hard enough!:)
Take the work of Roger Rulewich at Yale, and compare it to the work of Coore & Crenshaw at Riviera. In Mucci-speak--The Mission Statement!:)
-Both were given the green light by the powers that be to RESTORE original features.
Look at Geoff's images, both old and new from Yale #18, and then look at Coore & Crenshaw's work on Riviera #6. Which team got the "MISSION STATEMENT" right?
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So, NO! I don't think of Riviera as a C&C design or heavens forbid, a Fazio design, and I don't think Roger Rulewich should be at Yale either for all of the right reasons. In all likelihood, I think George Bahto would be the man all the way, and I don't think George would put his name attached to the course, in the same way Roger Rulewich likes his. I like George. Much like the way I used to like Ken Cotner! Also, are you implying blame about Riviera on Coore & Crenshaw? If so, I would like to hear your take about the Riviera turf debacle before even trying to point blame at Coore & Crenshaw.
Plus, I don't think you went out of your way to see Yale because it was "still a Raynor routing with a lot of playing characteristics still intact." I have this feeling that you went there because you were probably were supposed to play somewhere else, and it fell through.
JakaB, its your turn, Go ahead and let it rip! And Tom Huckaby, get the emails to Scott sent, telling him I'm really an asshole and that taste really doesn't matter.