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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
There's an ad in today's sports section of the Philadelphia Inquirer for limited public play at $58 weekdays M-F and $78 weekends/holidays. Prior to this ad, the club was discreetly offering public play on their website as part of a "Member for a Day" program. The new management company is still trying to sell memberships.


Here's the lengthy prior thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39821.0.html
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 11:14:21 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2012, 08:15:30 AM »
I got a chance to play Lulu a couple of weeks ago with my son at the tail end of a college scouting trip. Run don`t walk as $58 is more than worth it for this classic Donald Ross course. Ross was blessed with some outstanding natural land forms and routed a beauty. The # 4 drop shot par 3 is one of the coolest holes of this ilk and would never get built today. You can see that Lulu has fallen on hard times with a peak at the inside of the clubhouse which could use plenty of TLC. This is a course that you would not tire of and it has to be given props for a really cool logo.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 08:19:10 AM by Tim Martin »

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2012, 11:24:33 AM »
Pennsylvania has often been noted as extremely strong for private courses but public not so much. Where would lulu rank?  Calling Matt Ward.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2012, 07:39:08 PM »
Top Pennsy publics per Golfweek:
1. Bedford Springs
2. Mystic Rock
3. Olde Stonewall
4. GC at Glen Mills
5. Tom's Run
6. Hershey CC West
7. Wyncote
8. Hershey Links
9. Berkleigh GC
10. Raven's Claw

I've only played GC at Glen Mills and as a Lulu Apologist I'd say Glen Mills isn't in Lulu's league.  I would think LuLu would be #1 in a lot of states. 
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2012, 07:45:43 PM »
Top Pennsy publics per Golfweek:
1. Bedford Springs
2. Mystic Rock
3. Olde Stonewall
4. GC at Glen Mills
5. Tom's Run
6. Hershey CC West
7. Wyncote
8. Hershey Links
9. Berkleigh GC
10. Raven's Claw

I've only played GC at Glen Mills and as a Lulu Apologist I'd say Glen Mills isn't in Lulu's league.  I would think LuLu would be #1 in a lot of states. 

Bogey, I've played a few of those above.  ;)

No doubt in my mind that LuLu cracks that list. 
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2012, 07:58:40 PM »
Mike,

I haven't played Mystic Rock or Olde Stonewall in western PA but my personal rankings  of the courses I've played are:

Bedford Springs. IMO it is superior the following group.


Next group in alphabetical order:

Berkleigh
Glen Mills
Hershey Links
Hershey West
Inniscrone
Lederach
Lulu

If LuLu's  current conditioning problems are solved, then it  would rise to 2 on my list. I expect to play there later this week when the weather forecast is better on Thursday or Friday. If anyone cares to join me, send me a PM.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 08:12:55 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2012, 08:06:55 PM »
I am always surprised when I don't see Lederach get ranked in PA.  I think it is every bit the course LuLu is and indeed I prefer Lederach.  In any case, I would be happy to play both again.  One plug for LuLu, my mate preferred it to the other courses we saw in Philly and that included Merion and Rolling Green.

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2012, 08:47:01 PM »
Lu Lu compares very favorably to Hershey West.  It sits on a wonderful piece of ground and the work done by Forse design is terrific. I was fortunate to play there two weeks ago with Joe and Mike C and was amazed that such a terrific course had trouble main ting a full membership. There isn't an indifferent hole on the course and at approximately 6400 yards it  is playable for a wide range of golfer.  The course is unadulterated fun.

Steve conditioning wasn't bad at all. Perhaps not where Aronimink or St. David's (to name two of.the few Ross ' in the region) are but certainly not bad. All in I could be very happy playing Lu Lu day in and day out. In many regions it would get far more attention.

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2012, 07:08:11 AM »
LuLu has few peers in the 6,500 yds. and under class in the Philadelphia region. As Rory notes, there really isn't a JV hole in the line-up. Number 5 is as stout a four as there is in Phila. There is quality golf throughout the routing. Despite a shoe-string budget, the former and present superintendent have had the course, typically, in fine shape. With pace, the greens are delightfully diabolical. So why in its centennial year is it on the ropes?

To me, the management of the facility has been inconsistent. The membership, that was aging over the past 10-20 years, didn't direct what meager money they did allocate to the right places. A neigborhood that is teetering to drifting into a slide doesn't help.

LuLu has a four way intersection that is a visability gem from a showcase perspective. Literally THOUSANDS of cars pass by that course every day.  With, by my count, three different management teams at the helm in the recent past, you think one of them would have figured that out! It currently is: the site for the tree and landscape/debris dump, is horribly overgrown, has much of the great view of holes up the valley obscured by invasive or poor quality trees, and has a dynamite, sporty little practice green/hole right there that now sits forlornly, in neglected, scruffy condition, that would be a really cool spot tightened up.

How can you keep missing the obvious? For 15-20k, they could clean that whole mess up and really have something there to highlight how special that place is...but no, they just keep looking elsewhere and the club continues its decent. You have to INVEST in improvements or folks go elsewhere. Shabby chic only goes so far. Some well-directed lipstick could cover the clubhouse issues in the short. The course comes first!

I believe the current, open it up to anybody approach devalues the membership. Limited play is fine, but a come up and your're on mantra is not the way to go if you wish to have a private component to the facility. Semi-privates work, but it's a delicate balance that must be struck. Why would someone pay more for something ANYONE else can get for less? It makes no sense...there is no value to the private option.
Management needs to have someone in place who knows how to recruit members and they haven't had the right mix on that score...for a while. Of course a better product makes that job easier.

LuLu deserves a better fate. I hope they get it together, and it returns to form on the level of the superb golf architecture that's there.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 05:39:32 PM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2012, 08:35:33 AM »
Too bad Upper Dublin Township did not buy the course. Instead they gave the club $2.0 million to put a deed restriction on the property to avoid development. Imagine if UD sold their architecturally challenged muni Twining Valley (FKA Burn Brae) to a developer and acquired LuLu. They would immediately be able to stake a claim to owning one of the best municipal courses in the US. Too late now....

BTW Why did they change the name from Burn Brae to Twining Valley????

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2012, 10:12:14 AM »
If memory serves me correct Burn Brae was the name of the county club that was there years ago. At some point the club folded and the property was sold to the township. Played there in the mid 60's and it was public then so we are talking ancient history.
Used to work at the swim club thats is behind what was 16, loved sneaking on and playing 16,17, 18, 10 and 11 at lunchtime.

Thank God never got caught.

The post about the dump and trees  at LuLu are spot on, clean it up a bit and it would look great.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2012, 10:36:47 AM »
I just love Lu Lu and have played it a few times this season already.

I find it interesting the various routings I think the club has used.  Here is what it was in 1925 according to my analysis of an article by JE Ford (I think the 9th played as a short par 4, the hole now is the current par 3 12th):



And soon after 1925 a new clubhouse was built across the street (the current clubhouse) and this was the routing in 1930 (now the par 4 9th is the par 3 12th, perhaps b/c of a parking lot for the clubhouse) based upon an article from the Philadelphia Golfer and Sportsman magazine:



And I don't know when the club went to the current routing below:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2012, 11:49:50 AM »
I am on record of not "getting" Lederach at all.  Instead of bold, I found its features clumsy.

Granted, mine is a minority opinion and LuLu is my girlfriend.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2012, 01:14:38 PM »
I am on record of not "getting" Lederach at all.  Instead of bold, I found its features clumsy.

Granted, mine is a minority opinion and LuLu is my girlfriend.

Bogey

Bogey

The features can be bold and clumsy.  It is odd that if we consider centreline features to be the essence of strategic golf that we speak of Lederach in terms of bold.  I think of the design as so retro that it is ahead of its time.  There just aren't that many courses which truly capture the mantra of centreline features.  I wish KBM had the opportunity to execute this design on a better property without housing constraints.

Lets just say that we must agree to strongly disagree in that LuLu has nothing over Lederach.  Of course, I am not one to take to trees narrowing down playing corridors and that was my biggest issue with LuLu.  I always go back to Grosse Ile (near Detroit) as a measuring stick when I think of Ross and local courses - LuLu isn't in the same class and yet all we hear about is LuLu.  That said, just as is the case with Colt, the Ross set a very high standard and there is barely a course either was involved with which I could say is even average.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2012, 04:28:42 PM »
I am on record of not "getting" Lederach at all.  Instead of bold, I found its features clumsy.
Granted, mine is a minority opinion

Mike,
I live a few miles from the course and you are not in the minority.

As for LuLu, a friend of mine joined a while back for less than what it costs for a season pass as Lederach.

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2012, 04:42:40 PM »
I will be in the area on business and plan to play LuLu on Thurs, 05/24 am if anyone would care to join.
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2012, 05:48:28 PM »
Ryan,

Thanks for the offer. I will be up in N.J. for an outing or I'd join you. I hope another fellow GCA chum can join up and share some time and maybe some insights if they know LULU. You'll have a ball, and especially so if it's dry and the greens have some pace.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2012, 06:12:42 PM »
Ryan,

I played LuLu today. The USGA would be very proud of the rough. The greens were much slower than I remember. Maybe by next Thursday, weather permitting, the rough will be more manageable and the greens will have some pace. I'll be glad to join you.

PM me for details.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2012, 10:07:04 AM »
1924 Aerial (#1 dogleg left coming at at the camera):


1915 Routing - Front 9 (#1 dogleg left going left to right at the bottom of map):


I have a 20 pages history with great photographs of the quarry hole and punchbowl.   Let me know if anyone would like a copy e-mailed.

Mike
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 10:12:44 AM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2012, 10:57:50 AM »
Steve,
I sent you PM. I'm booked for 8:04 AM. Hope you can join.

Mike,
I received your email. I will try to remember the camera. I would appreciate a copy.

Ryan
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2012, 11:22:50 AM »
The first 9 holes in Lu Lu's history were designed by Frank Meehan and Warren Webb.  When Ross came in, it appears he used holes 1-6 and a modified 7th.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2012, 03:29:06 PM »
Joe, the stick routing I posted above shows 9 holes east of  S. Limekin.  I assume what appears to be nos. 6 and 7 were never built?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: LuLu(Ross,1912) in North Hills, PA- now semi-private officially
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2012, 06:31:42 PM »
Joe, the stick routing I posted above shows 9 holes east of  S. Limekin.  I assume what appears to be nos. 6 and 7 were never built?

Mike

Bogey, see this thread I started on Lu Lu a few years back.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33088.0.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Played LuLu for the first time yesterday and if there's a better golf course for $58 (all day, no less) anywhere...please let me know cause I'll drive a long way to play it.

What an amazing collection of par 4s.  When you walk up to the first green after a modest start and peek to your left you get an idea of what's in store. Number 2 is a terrific little down and up short 4 requiring a partially blind pitch approach. The next is a longer 2 shotter with maybe the best green on the course. A very tough driving hole with a cool rumpled last 50 yards of fairway and I think my favorite hole there. Which is tough because 8, 9, 11, 14 and 18 are all fantastic as well. IMO the 3 par 5s are the only slight weakness but they're not bad holes. They just pale a bit to the strong group of 4s.

As mentioned, the rough is indeed rough and the course plays a long 6400 yards. The greens are still on their way back but putted pretty well.

What a fun round. I drove about 2 hours to get there and I'll probably be back a half dozen more times before the end of the year.