[David Ober]

My goodness is this stuff great for fairways and tee boxes. I'm playing in the Carlton Woods Invitational at the Fazio course at The Club at Carlton Woods, and I've never played on such perfect fairways.

What are the thoughts here on zoysia?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I love zoysia - especially some of the newer types which can be cut very close and play as fast as anything else.  I think the zoysia at Austin Golf Club may be the best turf that I've ever played on.

[Jason Thurman]

It gives great lies in the fairways and you can really spin the ball because it sits so cleanly. It also seems like it comes out of dormancy much sooner than bermuda in the transition zone.

The one drawback I find is that it stays pretty "sticky." I've played firm zoysia, but it never seems very fast.

[PCCraig]

I love it. I've played on it in the St. Louis area quite a bit and enjoy how the ball sits up in the fairways, especially with my really flat sweeping swing.

[Simon Holt]

David,

Carlton Woods was my first experience of it too.  That place is immaculate!

Have fun.

Simon

[Mike Hendren]

Detrimental to the ground game, particularly around the greens as a low pitch tends to pop up on the first bounce.

Bogey

[Sam Morrow]

My goodness is this stuff great for fairways and tee boxes. I'm playing in the Carlton Woods Invitational at the Fazio course at The Club at Carlton Woods, and I've never played on such perfect fairways.

What are the thoughts here on zoysia?

Are the fairways running at all?

[rjsimper]

Played on it for the first time at Greensboro CC - Farm Course - in the winter and it was unbelievably great in its dormant state. Like playing on carpet. Truly excellent grass. Can't speak to what it does when it's green, but in it's white/yellow form, it's awesome.

[Bill_McBride]

I didn't realize that was zoysia at Austin Golf Club, played more like 419.

The only time I know I've played on zoysia was at East Lake in the rain, and it's no fun then.   Slow, sticky as Bogey says, didn't seem it would drain well.

[JMEvensky]

I didn't realize that was zoysia at Austin Golf Club, played more like 419.

The only time I know I've played on zoysia was at East Lake in the rain, and it's no fun then.   Slow, sticky as Bogey says, didn't seem it would drain well.

All of you singing zoysia's praises,do you play on it regularly? From some of the descriptions,it sounds like most played zoysia when it was mowed tight,dry,and firm--that's not the zoysia I play on every week.

Bill McBride and Bogey,I agree with you.When zoysia plays as 419,it's the greatest thing in the world.But at least in my part of the world,it's more likely to be slow and sticky with zero ground game possibilities.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I didn't realize that was zoysia at Austin Golf Club, played more like 419.

Doug Petersan may be the best in the business.

[Michael Burrows]

I didn't realize that was zoysia at Austin Golf Club, played more like 419.

Doug Petersan may be the best in the business.

I worked for Doug for several years and he is by far the best superintendent that I have worked under. He always said Zoysia gets a bad reputation because everyone tries to manage it like Bermuda. Meaning they tend to over water it and fertilize it because of its slower growth and recovery from stress. The Diamond zoysia on tees at Austin Golf Club may be one of the finest playing surfaces any where in the world.

[Steve Okula]

Where is Carlton Woods? Who designed it?

[Duncan Cheslett]

Where is Carlton Woods? Who designed it?

Google is your friend...

http://www.carltonwoods.com/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=264130&ssid=129564&vnf=1

[Ken Moum]

I love zoysia - especially some of the newer types which can be cut very close and play as fast as anything else.  I think the zoysia at Austin Golf Club may be the best turf that I've ever played on.

That right there is the problem.  Nearly all the zoysia around these parts (NE Kansas) is Meyer, and it NEVER gets cut close enough to be fast. 

The local munibombers like it that way because they can scoop their three wood off it, but bump and run on any shot is impossible.

Nevertheless, it's the way of the future because cool season fairways are hopeless with any kind of reasonable budget.

If we could get some of the newer cultivars, it might be different.  I played Briggs Ranch in San Antonio not long after it opened, and they sodded to whole thing with Zeon.  It looked like bentgrass except for the color.

K

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I didn't realize that was zoysia at Austin Golf Club, played more like 419.

Doug Petersan may be the best in the business.

I worked for Doug for several years and he is by far the best superintendent that I have worked under. He always said Zoysia gets a bad reputation because everyone tries to manage it like Bermuda. Meaning they tend to over water it and fertilize it because of its slower growth and recovery from stress. The Diamond zoysia on tees at Austin Golf Club may be one of the finest playing surfaces any where in the world.

The tees at Austin Golf Club are by far the best I have ever played.

[A.G._Crockett]

My understanding is that zoysia doesn't recover from divots quickly enough to be used on a high traffic golf course.  Great for tees and lots of places use it around bunkers, but very few for the dominant grass on the golf course.

One really annoying use for it that I've seen is as a collar to prevent faster growing bermuda from intruding onto bent grass greens.  It works, but it makes chipping results pretty random.

[Ken Moum]

My understanding is that zoysia doesn't recover from divots quickly enough to be used on a high traffic golf course.  Great for tees and lots of places use it around bunkers, but very few for the dominant grass on the golf course..

That has to be coming from places where Bermuda is a dominant turfgrass.  In most of Kansas, virtually the ONLY warm-season grass used on fairways is zoysia.  And that includes the highest-traffic courses most of the courses that have it don't even bother to put sand in the divots because the grow in so quickly.

The problem is that cool season grasses suffer in the summer, and Bermuda can't handle the winters. If it weren't so "sticky" it would be the ideal turfgrass.

K

[Jason Thurman]

My understanding is that zoysia doesn't recover from divots quickly enough to be used on a high traffic golf course.  Great for tees and lots of places use it around bunkers, but very few for the dominant grass on the golf course..

That has to be coming from places where Bermuda is a dominant turfgrass.  In most of Kansas, virtually the ONLY warm-season grass used on fairways is zoysia.  And that includes the highest-traffic courses most of the courses that have it don't even bother to put sand in the divots because the grow in so quickly.

The problem is that cool season grasses suffer in the summer, and Bermuda can't handle the winters. If it weren't so "sticky" it would be the ideal turfgrass.

K

Agreed. Zoysia is very popular in the transition zone as a fairway grass and appears to handle high traffic as well as anything. It gives fantastic lies and I know many players in the Ohio Valley who prefer it even to bent in fairways.

To be fair, firm and fast isn't very common in this part of the world which really makes it as good as anything. Bent can play fast but tends to require too much water for it to happen consistently, and bermuda is rare because it takes too long to emerge from dormancy. Rye blends get too burned out in the summer and become thin with lots of dirt. That leaves zoysia as a very good option in spite of its stickiness, because it really doesn't play considerably slower than any other grass. In the late summer and early fall though, I much prefer bent (usually less mushy by then).

[Joe McCormac]

Completely agree with Jason.  Living in St. Louis, we often talk about the courses one would want to play in March/April and October/November (bent fairways).  If you're lucky enough: St. Louis Country Club (CBM) Fox Run (Gary Kern) and Boone Valley (PB Dye).  However, zoysia is pretty much the ONLY option if you prefer to play off grass from May-September.  Old Warson (RTJ), Bellerive (RTJ) and St. Albans (36 holes, one of which is Weiskopf & Morrish, other being Michael Hurdzan) are very fine clubs with zoysia fairways and tees.

I could be wrong, but I thought I was once told that Bellerive was the the first ever course to host a major championship on zoysia grass.

Dalhousie, a very fine course in Cape Girardeau, MO about 90 miles south of St. Louis should have tried bent, IMHO.  It's the Nicklaus group.

[David Ober]

My take on the "firm fastness" of the zoysia at Carlton Woods was that it was on the soft side (there had been some rain), but PLENTY fast. I hit the ball very low off the tee, and I was getting plenty of roll, such that I was getting the ball out there 270 - 290 with regularity, even though I only carry driver 230ish.

Was cut very, very tight, and the ball just sits up there begging to be worked any way I wanted to hit the ball. Just a beautiful surface from which to hit golf shots....

[David Amarnek]

Joe,

You forgot my home club with one more option, Westwood CC, with the (original) Westwood Bermuda fairways.  The past two years we didn't overseed with rye and it's made a huge difference.  Full coverage throughout, even early in the season.  With the warmer weather we've had and will have... pretty sweet.

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