[Scott Warren]

Let's hear your nominations for the best original holes by one of the most underrated (and at times disrespected) architects of the Golden Age.

I'm going with Winthrop -- the 12th hole at Fishers Island. A fantastic drive over brilliant linksy land setting up a thrilling approach to a green that's so much fun to putt and recover to. Bold shapes, but in no way unnatural.

[Tim Martin]

Great thread and so many options. The 12th hole green at Fishers is incredible and to hit it into the left portion with a low approach and watch it disappear through the reverse redan feature and then find it upon approaching the green somewhere near a back right pin is other worldly. Definitely my favorite green on the course.

I will throw out The Pits- The 2nd hole at Yale with the elevated tee shot to a fairway that has a ton of movement where a level lie is hard to find. Here is a back left angle of the of the green which gives you an idea of what you are facing with a pulled approach.

[John_Cullum]

Somehow this was not noted on my calendar

[Howard Riefs]

Great idea for a thread.  

I’m staying close to home with Shoreacres. The #11th hole is a 380 yard par 4 that capitalizes on the property’s most dramatic feature: a 25-foot ravine.

To make generous use of Ran’s expert course profile of Shoreacres (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/shoreacres-il-usa/)...

 

The intimidating tee shot on the eleventh is the golfer's dramatic introduction to a ravine that dominates play over the next several holes.




Raynor's brilliant routing has the green placed on the far side of the ravine. Imagine playing this hole with hickory clubs, which is exactly what the membership did for Shoreacres' first decade.

[Niall Hay]

Great idea for a thread.  

I’m staying close to home with Shoreacres. The #11th hole is a 380 yard par 4 that capitalizes on the property’s most dramatic feature: a 25-foot ravine.

To make generous use of Ran’s expert course profile of Shoreacres (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/shoreacres-il-usa/)...

 

The intimidating tee shot on the eleventh is the golfer's dramatic introduction to a ravine that dominates play over the next several holes.




Raynor's brilliant routing has the green placed on the far side of the ravine. Imagine playing this hole with hickory clubs, which is exactly what the membership did for Shoreacres' first decade.

I second the #11th hole at Shoreacres.

[Matt Waterbury]

Given the "original" holes qualification, I suppose the 12th at Fishers is a good as any...it certainly is a great piece of real estate to take in that section of the golf course. And looking very good on opening day:



However, having faced this beast 4 times over the last 2 days, with a stiff head wind, I think the 5th at Fishers, though not an original, should be called out as we tip our hats in celebration of Mr. Raynor's birthday...



Cheers,
Matt

[Scott Warren]

Great nominations.

Tim, agreed - an awesome hole with a real reward for finding a flat spot up the RHS off the tee. The recovery from left of the green is terrifying.

Brian, that hole looks great. Would the green be skyline without the hedge? And am I right that on the drive, the ridge is further to carry up the left if you want to open up the green?

What stands out to me in all four holes nominated - Fishers, Yale, Southampton and Shoreacres - is the use of the land to create strategic decisions/options off the tee, rather than just relying on bunkers.

Matt, nice pics. Course looks in absolute tip-top condition.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

11 and 12 at Mountain Lake. 18 is one fine finishing hole as well.

[Mark Johnson]

I'll submit one of my favorites.

#6 at mn valley.  Blind tee shot over trees with a 120 yd approach to a very steep green guarded by 2 tree on the right side


tee shot from senior tees
http://www.panoramio.com/m/photo/6319134

Approach shot
http://www.panoramio.com/m/photo/6319184

[Ronald Montesano]

Are you Raynor Ravers aware that the Senior Players will be contested in Pittsburgh in June/July, at Seth Baby's Fox Chapel?


http://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/s507/

http://www.pgatour.com/2011/tournaments/s507/12/21/CSPC.FoxChapel/index.html

I don't know which is original and which isn't, but I'll put up that course as an absolute gem and an honor for the man Raynor.

[Jay Carstens]

Somehow this was not noted on my calendar

I think yesterday was Tillinghast's birthday too.

[Tim Martin]

Somehow this was not noted on my calendar

I think yesterday was Tillinghast's birthday too.

Who?

[Bill Crane]

As a Springdale (Princeton,NJ) and Outpost Club member, I have enjoyed teasing Yale golf coach and ardent Raynor buff  Colin Sheehan about the fact that ............................Raynor went to Princeton !!!

I have certainly enjoyed getting to know Yale and plan get in at least a couple rounds a year.  Have to cajole Colin into finding us an invite to Fishers !!

[George_Bahto]

Just a couple suggestions/ thoughts on “original” Raynor holes”   :   

* Raynor courses include Fishers Island, much (or all) of Yale, the 1923 redo of Chicago - and of course more ........ so there are “original” holes there



some great originals:

* # 9 at Westhampton in its original form (takeoff of the Strategy hole, Lido)

* the original #6 at CC of Fairfield was a great option hole

* the original #3 at Yale was very similar to the present 6th at Creek (we have no idea if Creek 6 was CBM or Raynor or both, but with the original fairway bunkering in place, plus that green complex and the views, ..........   one great golf hole)

* in my opinion, the 6th at Lido - the Prize Dog-Leg hole was one if his best originals

plenty more

[Joey Chase]

Just a couple suggestions/ thoughts on “original” Raynor holes”   :   

* Raynor courses include Fishers Island, much (or all) of Yale, the 1923 redo of Chicago - and of course more ........ so there are “original” holes there



some great originals:

* # 9 at Westhampton in its original form (takeoff of the Strategy hole, Lido)

* the original #6 at CC of Fairfield was a great option hole

* the original #3 at Yale was very similar to the present 6th at Creek (we have no idea if Creek 6 was CBM or Raynor or both, but with the original fairway bunkering in place, plus that green complex and the views, ..........   one great golf hole)

* in my opinion, the 6th at Lido - the Prize Dog-Leg hole was one if his best originals

plenty more

Is there any news on the Raynor book I kept reading about?

[George_Bahto]

not done yet - thanks - still in progress  (phew)

[Ari Techner]

I will throw Lookout Mountain's "Valley" Hole #2 into the mix.  

A great downhill tee shot with a fairway that slopes left to right and bunkers doting the left and right side.  Club selection and shot shape are key to avoiding the various bunkers as par from one of the fairway bunkers is a very tall order.  
The approach shot is back up the hill to a skyline green with an amazing view of Chattanooga right behind green.  The green has 2 small bunkers to the left of the green and a long bunker flanking the right side.  There is a steep fall off directly behind the green and long usually means death.  The green has some great internal subtle contours and always provides some very interesting putts.  

One of my favorite holes on my home course and a true Raynor original and example of using the land as it is found to create a great golf hole.  

(*one small thing to add, if the long term plan authored by Gil Hanse every gets finished this hole will be even better.  The fairway bunkers will be cleaned up a little bit and regain a little more "Raynor" shape and the green will get approximately 20% more green space added back to it that has been lost over the years)

[Scott Warren]

Some pics of Ari's nomination courtesy of Paul Thomas:

[Tim Martin]

What about the opener at Yale 410 Yard Par 4 Eli- A visually intimidating tee shot with junk below, Grist Pond to the right, and mature trees left that block out your approach. Like many holes at Yale you will be hard pressed to find a level lie on the approach. The green is a great indication of what`s to come with it`s two tiers and 10,000 plus square foot of area to contend with. An approach to the lower tier back left hole location could be three clubs more than a top tier front pin. If you looked left coming up one fairway to 2 green and putted out on 1 you know that this will be no ordinary ride. This is an older picture and that vegetation you see in front of the tee is long gone.

[Scott Warren]

Agreed it's a great start, Tim. That green put an enormous smile on my face and told me what I was in for on the next 17.

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