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Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2012, 06:54:31 PM »
In an era that a trillion dollars is a real number $250 million isn't that much.

Joe Stansell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2012, 07:16:42 PM »
When I was serving as a volunteer on the executive board of a youth sports association, I always believed that, once the organization had a "sufficient reserve" equal to about one year of expenses, it wasn't doing enough to further its own cause if its revenue continued to exceed expense. When that happened, I advocated for a reduction in fees or more investment in programs.

I see that the USGA now has a reserve easily twice the amount of its annual expenses, and that its surplus has steadily increased over the years. This does not seem like good management to me.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2012, 10:15:32 PM »
Paul,

I think the first tee is a waste of time and resources.  

I served as volunteer "coach" in a big (in terms of dollars) First Tee program last year.  Based on my experience, there is no question about it -- it's a major waste of time and resources.

Sorry.  But then again I do hate playing alone so may have stumbled on a perfect solution.  When someone is in town and asks for permission to play a private course why not have a list of disadvantaged children who could join along?  Why doesn't an organization like Golfweek, under the direction of the first tee, compile a list of qualified disadvantaged golfers who would be available throughout the country.  It would be simple to coordinate and rewarding for all parties.

Based on my experience, First Tee would have little interest in such a venture.  Beyond that, First Tee is not just for disadvantaged golfers.  In the program I was involved with, very few participants were what I would call disadvantaged.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 08:12:27 PM by Carl Johnson »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2012, 02:17:48 PM »
JK, I do think you have a great idea there, with compiling local lists of disadvantaged youth (who in some way demonstrate an affinity or desire to play golf by the rules and honest interest to learn the game).  The list could be easily distributed to all the private and open to public courses, where single travelling visitor golfers, or local retired sorts looking to do something constructive, can give back to the youngsters who need positive influences and something of good clean recreational activity.  Great idea, IMHO!

On a side note and question, while we hash over the merits of such a robust cushion of assets at the USGA, can anyone speak to the comparable situation with the R&A?  Do they have a significant cushion of treasury surpluss?  Does Great Britain have a similar taxing organization structure of not-for-profit organizations, aside from religious or charity orgs, where sports clubs are also under that tax sheltered umbrella?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Bill Crane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2012, 11:10:39 PM »
A quarter billion dollars !!

Maybe they could upgrade the quality of the crummy US Open hats for USGA members.  They are embarrassing.
_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2012, 09:18:30 AM »
LITIGATION
That would be a good use for it, but they haven't done anything to protect the game that demands dipping into that stash... like rolling back the ball without consultation with the manufacturers. They don't need to consult with them... they need to make rules and decisions to protect the game and let the mfg.'s figure out how to deal with it.




D_Malley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2012, 02:48:29 PM »
The best High School soccer players in PA are no longer allowed to play for their high school teams.  They must pay $5,000 - $6,000 per year to play for the elite soccer club FC Delco.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/soccer/149173415.html

Stuart Goldstein

Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2012, 03:33:04 PM »
Quote
The best High School soccer players in PA are no longer allowed to play for their high school teams.  They must pay $5,000 - $6,000 per year to play for the elite soccer club FC Delco.

This is a slightly different issue. The US Soccer Federation, for whatever reason, has decided that if you want to play on, assuming you qualify, the US Development Team U-18 and U-16 you can't play high school soccer.  Stupid.  This is different than 8 year old Sally kicking the ball around with her friends in front of the other soccer moms.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2012, 04:11:49 PM »
The best High School soccer players in PA are no longer allowed to play for their high school teams.  They must pay $5,000 - $6,000 per year to play for the elite soccer club FC Delco.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/soccer/149173415.html

An unbelievably stupid, short-sighted decision by a sports governing body. Pennsylvania ought to do what Wisconsin does -- ban all club participation during that sport's high school season.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2012, 04:43:20 PM »
The best High School soccer players in PA are no longer allowed to play for their high school teams.  They must pay $5,000 - $6,000 per year to play for the elite soccer club FC Delco.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/soccer/149173415.html

An unbelievably stupid, short-sighted decision by a sports governing body. Pennsylvania ought to do what Wisconsin does -- ban all club participation during that sport's high school season.

Phil, the other approach to this problem is to separate sports from high schools. While it isn't on the immediate horizon, given the extreme funding problems experienced by schools around the country, this strikes me as almost inevitable.

The upside? You can have as many teams as there are kids who want to play. As it is now, if you live in a district with a 3,000-pupil high school, your kid has a very slim chance of playing high school basketball -- or, for that matter, appearing in the school play. How are we helping our kids by giving them one varsity team, regardless of the size of the school?
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Stuart Goldstein

Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2012, 04:45:19 PM »
Quote
An unbelievably stupid, short-sighted decision by a sports governing body. Pennsylvania ought to do what Wisconsin does -- ban all club participation during that sport's high school season.

Let them do both.   If a kid wants the extra training and competition, then club teams have their place, but not at the detrimnet of the HS teams.  That should be the priority.  

Sometimes you see it in golf.  A kid will go play a AJGA event or state association event and miss his HS team event.  Perhaps you can make the case that the AJGA, or similar organization, is a club team dedicated for individuals.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2012, 05:04:44 PM »
The best High School soccer players in PA are no longer allowed to play for their high school teams.  They must pay $5,000 - $6,000 per year to play for the elite soccer club FC Delco.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/soccer/149173415.html

An unbelievably stupid, short-sighted decision by a sports governing body. Pennsylvania ought to do what Wisconsin does -- ban all club participation during that sport's high school season.

Ditto.  And, keep in mind that under the USSF's leadership the USA is still very much a second class soccer country.  (And a PS: based on my personal involvement with another US national sports federation (NGB), it's not about the sport's participants, it's about the perks and ego for/of the so-called leadership.)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 06:16:24 PM by Carl Johnson »

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2012, 05:12:52 PM »
Rick;  Intramurals, church leagues and the like are for the kids who want to play but aren't good enough to make the teams.  At some point, competition takes over.  In a lot of communities, the school teams are a drawing point that brings people together.  It certainly can get out of hand but if manged properly, it can do a lot of good.  For the kids with real talent, it can be an important time to develop their skills without the corruption of AAU and other similar organizations.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2012, 05:13:29 PM »
Right, $250MM in Cash/Securities are used only for important litigation purposes....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Smathers-Branson-Handmade-Needlepoint-Belt-Leather-USGA-Eagle-NWT-Sz-40-/251049025160?pt=US_CSA_MWA_Belts&hash=item3a73b01e88#ht_500wt_1413

...or buying your rules committee members $160 needlepoint belts.
H.P.S.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2012, 05:29:08 PM »
The best High School soccer players in PA are no longer allowed to play for their high school teams.  They must pay $5,000 - $6,000 per year to play for the elite soccer club FC Delco.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/soccer/149173415.html

An unbelievably stupid, short-sighted decision by a sports governing body. Pennsylvania ought to do what Wisconsin does -- ban all club participation during that sport's high school season.

Phil, the other approach to this problem is to separate sports from high schools. While it isn't on the immediate horizon, given the extreme funding problems experienced by schools around the country, this strikes me as almost inevitable.

The upside? You can have as many teams as there are kids who want to play. As it is now, if you live in a district with a 3,000-pupil high school, your kid has a very slim chance of playing high school basketball -- or, for that matter, appearing in the school play. How are we helping our kids by giving them one varsity team, regardless of the size of the school?

Rick:

Well, the cynical answer to that is:

-- That's one way high schools prepare you for the rest of your life. Not everyone gets into Harvard, or even the University of Minnesota's Carlson School of Management.

-- Move or use transfer options if available (they are pretty widely available here in Wisconsin, particularly at the high school level, and lots of athletes utilize it).

But my less cynical side has sympathy for the kid in a 3,000-student high school who isn't big or fast or skilled enough to play football or basketball. Happened to me, in fact -- one reason I ran cross country and track in high school instead of trying to be a slow point guard. (And I do think schools -- particularly football/basketball-oriented phys ed. teachers -- need to encourage more kids to try more participatory sports like cross country, track & field, and swimming, where generally everyone competes in most meets. Our phys ed. departments generally focus too much on games played in high school instead of life-long activities like swimming and running -- or golf or tennis.)

But the broader question to me, particularly as it relates to public high schools, is the nature of extra-curricular activities --whether it be sports, musicals, choirs, clubs of all kinds -- and divorcing those from high schools. High school athletics, while not free (in terms of fees), are certainly much cheaper than anything comparable you can find at the club level. (My wife doesn't even let me look at the bills for how much it costs us to have two kids in club swimming.) So if you divorce athletics from high schools, you pretty much prevent anyone who is poor or even of modest means from taking part in athletics. Which, just strikes me as wrong. (I have yet to see any club, anywhere, provide the level of support for poor kids participating that high schools do.) And, in my community, and I suspect others as well, it's these extra-curriculars that maintain a bond between residents of the community and the schools themselves -- and as long as we keep financing schools with local property tax dollars, that bond to me is pretty essential to maintain and nurture. (Our high school recently ended its run of five sold-out shows at our school auditorium; I'd bet at least half of the people attending had no children in the district.)

Sorry for the long digression, but it's a topic I've actually spent a lot of time talking about with high school coaches, administrators and others about -- I worry we are at a tipping point in terms of the connection between schools and athletics that I worry we can't recover from.

Steve Strasheim

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2012, 05:29:42 PM »
I would like to see them spend some resources on developing middle school golf programs.

In places I'm familiar with, kids can't play golf on a team until 9th grade. This causes even the talented golf kids to prefer team sports over golf. There would seem to be nothing but postives to getting 6th through 8th graders on a school team. Would certainly help the high school teams as well.

Mike Sweeney

Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2012, 09:41:26 PM »
So if you divorce athletics from high schools, you pretty much prevent anyone who is poor or even of modest means from taking part in athletics. Which, just strikes me as wrong. (I have yet to see any club, anywhere, provide the level of support for poor kids participating that high schools do.)

Phil,

In the Northeast, there are a number of inner-city squash programs that put kids in college. In Manhattan, Street Squash has THE nicest facility in NYC and Columbia University's squash teams play there. It blows away every private and public club in NYC.

http://dailynightly.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/25/11389639-street-squash-raises-spirits-and-grades

Reality is kids in the middle get cut out of squash.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2012, 10:31:58 PM »
Right, $250MM in Cash/Securities are used only for important litigation purposes....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Smathers-Branson-Handmade-Needlepoint-Belt-Leather-USGA-Eagle-NWT-Sz-40-/251049025160?pt=US_CSA_MWA_Belts&hash=item3a73b01e88#ht_500wt_1413

...or buying your rules committee members $160 needlepoint belts.

PCraig,

I was a USGA rules committee member for about 20 years and the USGA never paid for anything, so let's not try to create the impression that there's a slush fund for committee members.

The question I have for all of those opposed to the USGA's treasury, is WHY wouldn't you want the USGA to have more than adequate resources ?

Year's ago they couldn't afford to defend a lawsuit.

Is that the financial state you want them to return to ?


David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2012, 08:55:00 PM »
Stuart,
The Trevian Soccer Club in the north suburbs of Chicago charges $2,345 year for their U12-U18 "Select" teams.  
It's $1,995 for boys and girls U-8.  Eight year old kids, they are in third grade!!
Scam.

My old home town. Most of the hyper-competitive crazies in the New Trier district can afford it. For the ones who can't, if the kid is really good, someone will pay their freight. The marginal but impecunious kid is out of luck.

Golf isn't the only sport where the affluent have a big advantage.
David Lott

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2012, 10:18:39 PM »
But David, don't you know... They're ALL really good, the next Pele... All they need is intensive practice at the expense of everything else to max out their talent! LOL!

I have to say this: if I was a college coach of just about any sport I can think of other, the LAST kids I'd recruit would be kids from places like the North Shore or Westchester County or Edina or the Main Line or  Pacific Palisades or whatever.  Why? Because they're all fully maxed-out on their talent (whatever level that may be) by the age of 17. They've had the best training playing one sport year round their entire lives, and the truth is that they have limited (if any) further upside. Give me the kid from Carpentersville who finished 9th in the state tournament after just picking up the game 3 years ago, only plays in season because he's playing other sports too,  and has only had a few lessons over the kid from Winnetka who has been playing one sport year-round for a decade and finished 4th.  I'd take the former all day over the latter if I'm half the coach I profess to be because the former has actual talent.  And you can't overachieve your way into talent.

David,
That's a very good post.
Sadly, many coaches won't even attend high school events, choosing to attend the "exclusive" travel tournaments.

I hate "travel" sports as it's generally just mediocre kids playing other mediocre kids-and they could find that in the same town.
It definitely hurts locally based leagues such as Little League, and essentially allows a kid a to "buy" his way onto an all-star team.

There's a lot to be said for only playing "in season"

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2012, 03:09:32 AM »
Right, $250MM in Cash/Securities are used only for important litigation purposes....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Smathers-Branson-Handmade-Needlepoint-Belt-Leather-USGA-Eagle-NWT-Sz-40-/251049025160?pt=US_CSA_MWA_Belts&hash=item3a73b01e88#ht_500wt_1413

...or buying your rules committee members $160 needlepoint belts.

PCraig,

I was a USGA rules committee member for about 20 years and the USGA never paid for anything, so let's not try to create the impression that there's a slush fund for committee members.

The question I have for all of those opposed to the USGA's treasury, is WHY wouldn't you want the USGA to have more than adequate resources ?

Year's ago they couldn't afford to defend a lawsuit.

Is that the financial state you want them to return to ?


Patrick

Why would a charity need more than adequate resources?  

For all those high school pro-sports guys, did you ever think that sports may actually detract from the main reason kids go to school?  The US system of comprehensive sports in high school is actually quite a rare bird in the world.  With competition for the best university spots getting more fierce each year mainly because of foreign students it may not be a bad suggestion to separate school and sports. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 03:14:01 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Patrick_Mucci

Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2012, 06:28:05 AM »
Sean,

What constitutes "adequate resources" in the face of a litigious environment ?

Mike Sweeney

Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2012, 06:37:41 AM »
Sean,

What constitutes "adequate resources" in the face of a litigious environment ?

Patrick,

Please name two progressive forward thinking organizations or companies run by lawyers.  ;D I am sure there is probably one, two may be tough.

 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: USGA has $250 million in Cash and Securities
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2012, 06:42:27 AM »
Mike,

CEO or COO ?

Mike Sweeney


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