[Tim Martin]

I don`t want to pile on because the USGA is responsible for a lot of good. That said a $250 million war chest should be more than sufficient to assist host clubs as well as cover the cost of litigation. I agree that at some point it`s accumulated assets make it look less like a non profit but I don`t pretend to know what a sufficient cash reserve is although if it isn`t there yet it`s got to be pretty darn close.

[Garland Bayley]

The unfortunate thing is that the equipment manufacturers see no reason to preserve the game. They only see a need to make a buck. Therefore, they produce equipment that is useless to the average player and tell the average player how much better it is. For example, I picked up a new driver in the pro shop the other day and was surprised how light it was. The gears slowly cranked in my head to the conclusion that if it is that light it must be longer than any club the average player can hit. I asked how long it was, and the staff told me it was 46 inches long. No average player can hit a driver that is 46 inches long with any reasonable success. The average player needs a driver that is perhaps 43.5 inches long to begin to realize some success.

[Paul OConnor]

Paul,

I agree, it's a joke. The USGA is a "non-profit" which makes a profit, pays huge salaries, and yet still sends out a letter every year with their hand out asking for $15 from every golfer with a handicap.

Why organizations like the USGA, Hospitals (Northwestern Memorial historically is a horrible offender of abusing their tax-exempt status http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/chicago/three-illinois-hospitals-stripped-property-tax-exemption-123726351.html), large Universities, etc. aren't taxed is beyond me. If someone can explain to me the greater benefit to not taxing institutions such as these I'm all ears.

I can make the case for schools and hospitals, but the tax-exempt status of sports organizations is a joke. So you and I are in agreement, Pat.  Whether it's the USGA, the college football bowls, or all those "travel sports" teams that rob suburban parents who think their little Johnny or Susie has a shot at being the next Albert Pujols or Mia Hamm, it's all just a scam. (Don't even get me started on these travel teams that charge parents $2-3K per year so their untalented kid can "travel" three suburbs over to play against equally-untalented kids who, coincidentally, have equally sucker/dreamer parents -- all so some mope who runs the program can pocket a couple hundred grand a year conning people into playing one sport year-round... UGH!!

It astounds me that no politician has grabbed this as a political issue.  It seems to me that this would be one simple loophole to close to help balance the budget. It is fundamentally unfair for these businesses to go untaxed when other businesses are. It's one or the other: tax 'em all or don't tax any. I can make a case for either (personally, I lean toward taxing none, since it should all be taxed at the stakeholder level), but not for the current state of affairs... Two of my neighbors run businesses like this. They teach baseball all day and make a killing. It's a joke.

Dave,
If you don't pay for the travel team, how will you get the cool, status symbol, team magnetic bumper sticker identifying you as a complete and total sucker. 
You know what, I could walk from my house to yours tonight, peel off all the magnetic team logo status bumper stickers off the back of every minivan and Range Rover I pass, and put them all on the back of your car.  Are you still driving the BMW? 

[Patrick_Mucci]

LITIGATION

Really? Who is suing them? I would think having $250 million would make one a larger target for litigation than if one had $0.
Just the opposite.
Guys who play no limit poker understand that.
If you've got $1,000,000 in cash, you have limited resources to pay attorney fees, and a verdict against you can bankrupt you, effectively putting you out of business.  You can be bullied, leveraged and marginalized.

Not so with deep pockets.

Deep pockets means you can withstand siege warfare and are not to be trifled with because you can afford the best legal minds in the country.

It's interesting, years ago guys like you were criticizing them for being so poorly funded.
Perhaps you're too young to remember the Ping lawsuit and how it made the USGA timid when it came to ruling on I&B.

[David_Elvins]

I can make the case for schools and hospitals, but the tax-exempt status of sports organizations is a joke.

Dave,

Can you explain to me how the tax exempt status of these organisations helps the people you mention make "a couple of hundred grand a year"?

[Doug Siebert]

I can make the case for schools and hospitals, but the tax-exempt status of sports organizations is a joke.

Dave,

Can you explain to me how the tax exempt status of these organisations helps the people you mention make "a couple of hundred grand a year"?

Do the parents get to deduct some of the $3000 yearly nut for putting their kids in these programs, perhaps making them think that fee is a bit less outrageous?  Otherwise I agree, that $200K salary would still be deductible if it was a for-profit business.  Even taxing these organizations at 100% wouldn't affect their ability to pay themselves ridiculous salaries for pretty much doing what many do on a volunteer basis.

[Mark Johnson]

Surprised that none of the lawyers here have brought up some potential inurement lawsuits which these financial support.

[Kalen Braley]

I worked for a very large non-prof health organization in utah for 4 months before I left as I couldn't stand it any longer...

I could not believe the amount of money they were stock piling while single handly going chinsey cheap on everything esle, including its employees, equipment, resources, etc, etc.  It was easily the biggest "scam" I've seen 1st hand.

As long as we're talking about tax free exempt scams, why are churches free from paying taxes?

[Stuart Goldstein]

I can make the case for schools and hospitals, but the tax-exempt status of sports organizations is a joke. So you and I are in agreement, Pat.  Whether it's the USGA, the college football bowls, or all those "travel sports" teams that rob suburban parents who think their little Johnny or Susie has a shot at being the next Albert Pujols or Mia Hamm, it's all just a scam. (Don't even get me started on these travel teams that charge parents $2-3K per year so their untalented kid can "travel" three suburbs over to play against equally-untalented kids who, coincidentally, have equally sucker/dreamer parents -- all so some mope who runs the program can pocket a couple hundred grand a year conning people into playing one sport year-round... UGH!!

Not sure where all this negativity for youth sports stems from but I think the travel teams can be a worthwhile experience.  I would also check your numbers 3k for a youth travel soccer team seems a little crazy.  My son plays travel soccer (I coach) and while he is a great athlete is he the next Pele-hardly.  The fees for his team is roughly $650 a year, which includes a fall and spring schedule of games and training, cool uniforms and tournaments.  The club has teams for boys and girls has a board of directors, plenty of transparency and is comprised entirely of volunteers.  I would like to see where "some mope..pockets a couple hundred grand a year."

We have played all over the tr-state area and have participated in tournaments which required an over night stay.  The kids really enjoy the camaraderie of the team play and the experience of "traveling" to other towns and areas is worthwhile.  For most of these kids travel sports, and maybe high school sports, is about as far as they will go.   As long as they enjoy it and the parents keep it in perspective-what's the harm.

[John McCarthy]

Question:  Why does any manufacturer have any right to sue the USGA for banning their equipment?  

I suppose detrimental reliance (USGA said these clubs were ok, manufacturer spent a lot to sell them and so did the customers, now you are saying they are non-conforming for an arbitrary reason which costs the manufacturer sales and therefore so you owe us damages) .  

The USGA should just make a rule that at any time upon the vote of the USGA any equipment may be ruled illegal at the sole discretion of the USGA.  The USGA is not a government.  I suspect that the vast majority of golf played in the US violates USGA rules (mulligans etc).  So having nonconforming equipment is just another way people play the game.  One just can't play non-conforming equipment in an USGA event or if the event chooses USGA rules.   And there is no right to play in a tournament which chooses it's own rules.  

[Kalen Braley]

The problem is John, where does it stop?

Can Chevy make a "rule" that only chevy parts can be installed on its cars?
Can Microsoft make a "rule" that only MS software can be installed on its OS?
Can a shrink make a "rule" that you're only allowed to get therapy from them?

The USGA doesn't own the game, it only attempts to govern it unofficially

[Paul OConnor]

Stuart,
The Trevian Soccer Club in the north suburbs of Chicago charges $2,345 year for their U12-U18 "Select" teams.  
It's $1,995 for boys and girls U-8.  Eight year old kids, they are in third grade!!
Scam.

[John McCarthy]

The problem is John, where does it stop?

Can Chevy make a "rule" that only chevy parts can be installed on its cars?
Can Microsoft make a "rule" that only MS software can be installed on its OS?
Can a shrink make a "rule" that you're only allowed to get therapy from them?

The USGA doesn't own the game, it only attempts to govern it unofficially

Kalen:  

The NBA plays basketball.  It has certain rules about the court, the ball etc.  But everyone does not have to follow them.  Likewise, you are playing golf if your equipment is nonconforming.  There is nothing magical about getting USGA approval.  

(I get that part of the traditions of the game is everyone plays the same game with the same rules - I can use the same ball as Tiger.  There is a definite competitive advantage in that.  But I say it is time to chuck that because it just drives up the price of the game and is hurting courses made when Bubba couldn't hit it 400 yards.)

[Stuart Goldstein]

The Trevian Soccer Club in the north suburbs of Chicago charges $2,345 year for their U12-U18 "Select" teams. 
It's $1,995 for boys and girls U-8.  Eight year old kids, they are in third grade!!
Scam.

Not sure if scam but certainly not cheap.

[Paul OConnor]

The Executive Director, Roy Wiggenmansen, earned $185,000 in 2010, for managing a kids soccer league, inside a non-profit.

[Stuart Goldstein]

That's crazy.  Do the parents know this?

[David Egan]

That's crazy.  Do the parents know this?

The parents probably feel bad that he's so poor.

[PCCraig]

Stuart,
The Trevian Soccer Club in the north suburbs of Chicago charges $2,345 year for their U12-U18 "Select" teams.  
It's $1,995 for boys and girls U-8.  Eight year old kids, they are in third grade!!
Scam.

You can't trust anything "Trevian"

[Bruce Wellmon]

The Executive Director, Roy Wiggenmansen, earned $185,000 in 2010, for managing a kids soccer league, inside a non-profit.

My first thought was I should start a soccer league.......... or junior golf tour.
Then I googled junior golf tours.
Hank Haney's IJGT charges $385 for entry in this weeks event. (I have no idea if IJGT is a nonprofit or for profit).
The KENTWOOL Socks Open at Oyster Reef
Apr 28 - Apr 29, 2012
Oyster Reef Golf Club

If I counted corrrectly, there were 58 events on the 2011-2012 schedule, including TPC Sawgrass and Dormie, among others.
A rather large business nontheless.

[Tim Martin]

The Executive Director, Roy Wiggenmansen, earned $185,000 in 2010, for managing a kids soccer league, inside a non-profit.

My first thought was I should start a soccer league.......... or junior golf tour.
Then I googled junior golf tours.
Hank Haney's IJGT charges $385 for entry in this weeks event. (I have no idea if IJGT is a nonprofit or for profit).
The KENTWOOL Socks Open at Oyster Reef
Apr 28 - Apr 29, 2012
Oyster Reef Golf Club
Hank continues to prove that he is an opportunist.

If I counted corrrectly, there were 58 events on the 2011-2012 schedule, including TPC Sawgrass and Dormie, among others.
A rather large business nontheless.

[PThomas]

a non-proft worth $250 million/a quarter of a BILLION

talk about oxymoron-ish

something is not right, something is quite wrong

they should be doing things like the Cobbs Creek project.....they could have bought the Evergreen Park course in Chicagoland and turned it into a First Tee course, that would have been a perfect fit

yeesh

[John Kavanaugh]

a non-proft worth $250 million/a quarter of a BILLION

talk about oxymoron-ish

something is not right, something is quite wrong

they should be doing things like the Cobbs Creek project.....they could have bought the Evergreen Park course in Chicagoland and turned it into a First Tee course, that would have been a perfect fit

yeesh

This from a guy with over 1000 Doak points.  I hope you do realize that on most of those rounds you could have taken along a disadvantaged child.  No way would a pro turn you away.  I don't get it.

[PThomas]

a non-proft worth $250 million/a quarter of a BILLION

talk about oxymoron-ish

something is not right, something is quite wrong

they should be doing things like the Cobbs Creek project.....they could have bought the Evergreen Park course in Chicagoland and turned it into a First Tee course, that would have been a perfect fit

yeesh

This from a guy with over 1000 Doak points.  I hope you do realize that on most of those rounds you could have taken along a disadvantaged child.  No way would a pro turn you away.  I don't get it.

that from a guy always bragging how many golf clubs he belongs to...go do some charity work with all your free time you bigmouth

[John Kavanaugh]

Paul,

I think the first tee is a waste of time and resources.  Sorry.  But then again I do hate playing alone so may have stumbled on a perfect solution.  When someone is in town and asks for permission to play a private course why not have a list of disadvantaged children who could join along?  Why doesn't an organization like Golfweek, under the direction of the first tee, compile a list of qualified disadvantaged golfers who would be available throughout the country.  It would be simple to coordinate and rewarding for all parties.

[Bill Shotzbarger]

How about 10M$ for the Cobbs Creek project? 

^ I wish I would have left them a note with my $10 last week!

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()